License Delphi (from OT thread)

[LeP]

(Afaik Seattle is the newest Delphi that can be bought(perpetual license). The versions after it are only leased (subscription), I can be wrong though, that some of the later 10.x versions are also perpetual, and only the initial purchase required taking one year subscription, but not to keep running it)

Delphi is bougth always with perpetual license, olds and news one.

You license is valid forever, you don't need subscription (if you don't need it).

The subscription is to acquire the new versions with lower price and maintain the products with the new patchs and updates.
Some third-party (or optional) packages are only available to those with an active subscription.

Since Delphi is normally used for professional works, is normal that a large portion of users use the subscription. If you have a car for prof. use, you must take care of it.

But many users have acquired one version and stay with that version forever without update.

[marcov]

Read https://blog.dummzeuch.de/2019/06/10/on-re-installing-delphi-without-active-maintenance/

which is also my experience. If you have no subscriptions, embarcadero and partners get cagey with resetting the activation counter. We have had to threaten with legal steps.

Without resetting activations, migrating to a new system gets hard, worse since a new installation (of Seattle) seems to eat two activations, as after the first reboot it always asks to activate again.

As for perpetual vs not, it was advocated for a while that way (RIO), but maybe the practice was different. I never bothered, since there was not that much interesting for me in newer delphis to begin with.

[LeP]

I read that article a long time ago and spoke with my Embarcadero distributor. They confirmed that if my subscription is terminated, I should request any "BUMPs" from them (or another Embarcadero distributor).
This is the procedure they follow.

Installation on the same PC can be performed as many times as desired without limits ("the installer" asks if I should use the existing license, which remains even if I uninstall the product).

Limiting the proliferation of non-subscription licenses is a standard practice to prevent illegal copies. The important thing is that there is a clear way to enforce your rights, and there's no need to resort to legal action, but anyone can if should be.

Now the things will change at the end of the year (in bad way ?), since for CRA, NIS2 (for example) every software should and must be updated if it's connected to a network (it doesn't matter whether you use it directly, indirectly, or not at all).
The mere fact that it runs (or can run) on a connected workstation brings it within the scope of the regulation.

These applications MUST ALWAYS BE UPDATED, based on the manufacturer's instructions, and the process isn't necessarily free.

So, subscription should be mandatory (my think) or the manufacter can (always my think) simple not give you the opportunity to install the old prodcuts again.

[marcov]

I read that article a long time ago and spoke with my Embarcadero distributor. They confirmed that if my subscription is terminated, I should request any "BUMPs" from them (or another Embarcadero distributor).
This is the procedure they follow.

Installation on the same PC can be performed as many times as desired without limits ("the installer" asks if I should use the existing license, which remains even if I uninstall the product).

If I try on a newly installed windows PC that had Delphi before, it fails. Some later testing seems to indicate that the license is attached to the hostname rather than the machine itself. Same machine, but different hostname -> fail, different machine, with same hostname: good chance.

Limiting the proliferation of non-subscription licenses is a standard practice to prevent illegal copies. The important thing is that there is a clear way to enforce your rights, and there's no need to resort to legal action, but anyone can if should be.

If their activation system eats 2 activations per install, and rotating machines every standard 3-4 years, that is not about enforcing rights. That is abusing that argument to raise money. 

Unfortunately I depend on certain native hardware access that make it difficult to run Delphi+ applications in a VM. If I were a purely administrative business, I'd have moved Delphi into a VM decades ago.

Now the things will change at the end of the year (in bad way ?), since for CRA, NIS2 (for example) every software should and must be updated if it's connected to a network (it doesn't matter whether you use it directly, indirectly, or not at all).
The mere fact that it runs (or can run) on a connected workstation brings it within the scope of the regulation.

I ran the NIS2 self evaluation, and if you are not very critical, and a small business, it says it doesn't apply.

These applications MUST ALWAYS BE UPDATED, based on the manufacturer's instructions, and the process isn't necessarily free.

But neither should that be turned into a license to print money. As Embarcadero constantly adds pointless options to the base SKU and eliminated all affordable ones.

So, subscription should be mandatory (my think) or the manufacter can (always my think) simple not give you the opportunity to install the old prodcuts again.

I don't see any basis for that, except for the manufacturer's share holders' dividend.   Moreover Embacadero is special, even in the subscription world, by asking both a one-off fee and a (considerable) subscription fee.

[LeP]

If their activation system eats 2 activations per install, and rotating machines every standard 3-4 years, that is not about enforcing rights. That is abusing that argument to raise money. 
Unfortunately I depend on certain native hardware access that make it difficult to run Delphi+ applications in a VM. If I were a purely administrative business, I'd have moved Delphi into a VM decades ago.

You are right, no doubt.

Now the things will change at the end of the year (in bad way ?), since for CRA, NIS2 (for example) every software should and must be updated if it's connected to a network (it doesn't matter whether you use it directly, indirectly, or not at all).
The mere fact that it runs (or can run) on a connected workstation brings it within the scope of the regulation.

I ran the NIS2 self evaluation, and if you are not very critical, and a small business, it says it doesn't apply.

Have you tried about new CRA (BTW, June 11th started the first phases), in your plants or software ?

These applications MUST ALWAYS BE UPDATED, based on the manufacturer's instructions, and the process isn't necessarily free.

But neither should that be turned into a license to print money. As Embarcadero constantly adds pointless options to the base SKU and eliminated all affordable ones.

This is my point too, but those laws were done for what ? Saftey ? Security ? Money ?

So, subscription should be mandatory (my think) or the manufacter can (always my think) simple not give you the opportunity to install the old prodcuts again.

I don't see any basis for that, except for the manufacturer's share holders' dividend.   Moreover Embacadero is special, even in the subscription world, by asking both a one-off fee and a (considerable) subscription fee.

In this regard, maintenance isn't cheap. Especially if you need to maintain certain "production quality levels and standards." I mean, if I have to maintain hundreds of software releases to customers and ensure everything works properly after every update... (I'm not talking about smartphone apps, but software for production plants)...

P.S.: Now, nothing is changed in the plants, only for new features the sw will be updated. After those laws, YOU MUST UPDATE ALL SOFTWARE, ALWAYS.

And SBOM ....

[440bx]

Delphi sure has gone a long ways in the wrong direction and they keep going...

back in the days of Turbo, the license was "treat it like a book"... not anymore... now they rent you the book and they are bending over backwards to make the customer "pay per read"... it's amazing they are still in business.

[marcov]

Have you tried about new CRA (BTW, June 11th started the first phases), in your plants or software ?

No, I have not. But we only deliver software in machines, and generally for use on non internet connected networks.

The fact that the opening page (https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/cra-msmes)  seems to contain faults (MSMEs vs MSEMs) doesn't instill the feeling that this is fully cooked yet.

Anyway, I assume, like CE it will boil down to some form of self-certification for SME. In short, I expect it to be a "paper tiger" with more holes than Edam cheese, with punitive clauses (read: updates not free) giving another escape hatch.

This is my point too, but those laws were done for what ? Saftey ? Security ? Money ?

It starts with safety/security as a noble idea, but when the lobbyist get involved, it becomes about business and thus increasing the revenue per customer under security pretences.

I think Embarcadero's general history is a good example of that. Similar developments can also been seen in cloud services where cheaper alternatives disappear, making upselling the name of the game.

I don't see any basis for that, except for the manufacturer's share holders' dividend.   Moreover Embarcadero is special, even in the subscription world, by asking both a one-off fee and a (considerable) subscription fee.

In this regard, maintenance isn't cheap.

My point is more that there is no incentive for the producers at all to keep security related costs under control. Crafty engineering of SKUs and Terms of Service can make a "security only" update something totally else.

Especially if you need to maintain certain "production quality levels and standards." I mean, if I have to maintain hundreds of software releases to customers and ensure everything works properly after every update... (I'm not talking about smartphone apps, but software for production plants)...

Software for production plants is what we do too. This is why I think this is mostly a paper tiger. Just add a box to your tender that customers have to tick if they plan to deploy your product in a situation where security concerns apply, and put a competitive price on that option. 19 out of 20 customers will leave it unchecked...

One of our  problems is that antivirus software is severely disruptive to begin with, if your bandwidth (2x 10 GB/s with high utilisation) and realtime requirements increase. Most of the PCs we deliver have defender and firewall disabled. Purely because of support reasons, as any update might suddenly cause these (not very efficient) programs to insert themselves into datastreams where they don't belong.

P.S.: Now, nothing is changed in the plants, only for new features the sw will be updated. After those laws, YOU MUST UPDATE ALL SOFTWARE, ALWAYS.

And SBOM ....

We'll see. The devil is in the details. You know the old IT saying:

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.

Practice is when everything works but nobody knows why.

In our lab, Theory and practice are combined: nobody knows why nothing works.

[MarkMLl]

which is also my experience. If you have no subscriptions, embarcadero and partners get cagey with resetting the activation counter. We have had to threaten with legal steps.

Could I have a reality check please: does this imply that if Embarcadero folds or their servers are lost due to natural disaster Delphi will become unusable or at least uninstallable?

Does this apply to all variants?

MarkMLl

[marcov]

which is also my experience. If you have no subscriptions, embarcadero and partners get cagey with resetting the activation counter. We have had to threaten with legal steps.

Could I have a reality check please: does this imply that if Embarcadero folds or their servers are lost due to natural disaster Delphi will become unusable or at least uninstallable?

Yes, eventually. 

Does this apply to all variants?

Afaik even D7 requires activation, so yes, anything not ancient (but don't pin me on it, haven't used D7 since Turbo Explorer (D2006) came out).

[Paolo]

Delphi 7 is the last working without activation.

[MarkMLl]

Thanks both.

MarkMLl

[LeP]

@MarkMLI

All Delphi, C++, Rad Studio supported by Embarcadero needs activations.

Those need when you install the product the first time or in other machines after the first time.
If you reinstall it in the same "first installation" PC you don't need a new activation (untill the license structure maintaned on disk is valid).

And, there is a limit (BUMP) to new installations with the same license. One can ask to Embarcadero, or other structures (their sellers) depends on the case, to increment this number.

And YES, if Embarcadero and their servers will vanish ... you will not able to install anything in a new computer. Like Borland ... but Delphi is still here.

Like @Paolo said, the last product without activation is Delphi 7 ... but since it is not in the market since years, I don't think that someone that do professional work care about that.

Who use these instruments for business take care about other things. Like said in the thread, there are other things that one must care and Delphi 7 or other versions not maintained from Embarcadero are "not on the table".

[EDIT: fixed a typo]

[Thaddy]

Even Delphi 7 needed online registration, but Delphi 7 personal did not.

Embarcadero published! this:

"
Delphi 7 Personal is not available for download.
If your received the software on a disk bundled with a book or magazine,
you can use the following serial number and key to register.

Serial number: YH?Z-2WDEGK-S48529-3AS3
Authorization key: G5N-D95
"

On one of the German magazines disks there was once a free full version of Delphi 7 Professional, also with a generic license like above.

The enterprise and architect versions of Delphi 7 are a bit more problematic to do without license violations.

[LeP]

@Thaddy

All version (except personal) of Delphi 7 is stil available and downlodable.

If you have a valid license with auth key should not be any problem.
The reg server is still online (but I don't know if is working), but for what I remember you don't need the registration online.

You will have the "unregistered" write on splash screen, but no other issue.

This happened to me many years ago when CodeGear acquired the Borland branch (FWIR).
I worked with that "unregistered" label for several years, but no problems.
Of course, I had the purchase certificate (the parchment they gave out with the codes back then).

In any case, right now, I wouldn't dream of developing software with Delphi 7: aside from the need to develop 64-bit software, who can give me even the slightest guarantee that the code produced doesn't have some potential flaw that could put my potential customer at risk?

P.S.: I had a professional license at that time. But I worked wuth company tha had the Enterprise version and it was the same.

[Thaddy]

Nope: Delphi 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,2005, 2006, 2007, 2009 are excluded and I DO have valid licenses for ALL of these.
I can get these, but the older ones are not even registered in my license info: solely on request.
Funny thing is that some of the licenses for beta-testers still show up, like for highlander and later....