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Author Topic: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...  (Read 3713 times)

440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2026, 04:44:53 am »
Either way, I thought you might find this interesting: https://github.com/graemeg/fpGUI/discussions/189

It's definitely not a case of autonomous AI usage, but rather highly effective AI-assisted development.
Graeme, I found that very interesting.

I found the "boatload of tokens" amusing... unfortunately, it also means money out of your pocket which I'm sure is less amusing.

The one thing I relate to very closely is that you don't see the project as a 10 year project anymore.  I know exactly what you mean because programming language design has been my on-going addiction for decades and, a few years ago I gave serious thought about designing a language and implementing a compiler for it.  After giving it serious thought, I figured I'd be doing quite well if I had a quality compiler in 5 years (optimistically speaking), because of that, I decided to abandon the project because a compiler without a good debugger is of questionable value no matter how good the language is. 

The point I want to make is that, like you, I believe A.I could make that project feasible.  Maybe a couple of years with A.I's assistance.  My concern now is that, I don't want this "fun project" to cost $20,000,  for that much money I'd like to get more than what A.I can provide. 

I know exactly where you're coming from... I'm in the same canoe and, I'm concerned about the assisting paddle costs ;)  All that said, the free A.I has managed to be helpful but, I'm concerned about how much milk that cow can deliver in the long run.

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ttomas

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2026, 02:25:24 pm »
Just look at flydev post on mormot forum and github repo.
https://synopse.info/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7548
Claude AI superpower, a lot of nice agents and skills for FPC+Delphi+mORMot, can be used in other AI systems too (ex. Antigravity). Good agents and skills will reduce a lot $$$$$ cost.

Thausand

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2026, 02:28:06 pm »
I found the "boatload of tokens" amusing... unfortunately, it also means money out of your pocket which I'm sure is less amusing.
If not look hype buzz news outlet then is know company is hire junior developer again for make simple task because AI expensive for make simple task.

Graeme is write "figure out billing model". This may be true but billing is go more expensive because there no sustain for current implement AI (cost > revenue).
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440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2026, 04:32:06 pm »
@Thausand,

OT: do you use google translate or some other form of automated translator to produce your posts in English ?

if not, I suggest you try one of those automated translators because I often wonder if I accurately understood what you meant.  I'm probably not the only one.
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Martin_fr

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2026, 05:09:04 pm »
Please just everyone keep in mind:

Continued speculation on future prices / growth / .... => isn't really on topic
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,73827.0.html

Thanks

440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2026, 05:31:19 am »
I have a personal account too, as I'm not allowed to use my work one for non-work stuff. I constantly hit my 5-hour caps in like 30-40 minutes.
If I may ask, what plan are you using, the Pro, Max5x or Max20x ?  of course, feel free to decline answering.
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Graeme

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2026, 12:24:21 pm »
I can only afford the Pro plan.
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440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2026, 01:14:04 pm »
I can only afford the Pro plan.
Thank you Graeme.

From past comments you've made, I get the impression that the Pro plan along with a fair amount of patience eventually does the trick (such as having Claude write a scanner, parser and LLVM back end for a compiler... likely with a fair amount of help from you.)

Since I'm in the compiler development boat too, can you provide some ballpark idea of how much guidance Claude required to understand and ultimately write the compiler pieces ? Any details you can provide about the development process are most appreciated.
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Graeme

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2026, 09:30:08 am »
can you provide some ballpark idea of how much guidance Claude required to understand and ultimately write the compiler pieces?

I know you didn't say it, but let me put it out there: I don't use "vibe coding," and I’m not a fan of the term. I rather use AI guided programming and use it as a pair-programmer. I do the architecting and design. I use AI to review my plans and reason through both sides—the pros and the cons. I play to AI’s strengths, as it can analyse faster than any human and play through various scenarios.

Not everything was written by AI, either. The parser and tokeniser code both came from the fpGUI IDE project I previously wrote, which I adapted with minimal effort for the Blaise Compiler. AI implemented the thin C wrapper to bootstrap the System and RTL units, as well as the QBE backend.

I have my own Claude skills and rules defined, but I also lean heavily on Garry Tan's `gstack` skills (https://github.com/garrytan/gstack). It’s a set of 23 opinionated tools that serve as CEO, Designer, Eng Manager, Release Manager, Doc Engineer, and QA. It’s invaluable in getting things right.

AI will pump out code faster than any human, but it is currently weak at software design. I believe humans still have the upper hand there, based on our years of experience and wider context. I also love TDD (Test-Driven Development), but it's not always the most fun thing to write. With AI, there is no excuse not to practice TDD, as it can do the grunt work for you. Without TDD, AI often implements something and then writes tests to prove what it just built. If it interpreted your problem incorrectly, those tests are false positives. I force the AI to write tests first. This gives me a chance to get a feel for how a new API will work and verify that the correct problem is being addressed before anything is implemented.

I’m purposely the bottleneck in the development process because I want to review every line of code. Without this, I’d lose the context of what’s going into the product—which creates a whole new set of problems. I’ve spent a huge amount of AI sessions simply on design and self-learning long before a single line of code was written. A compiler is a different beast entirely. AI also suggested implementing a QBE backend before an LLVM backend. After some research, I realised it was right—the QBE backend is much simpler and helped Blaise reach a self-hosting state much faster. It was about 10% of the effort for 70% of the performance of LLVM (numbers from the QBE website).

AI is also not a "get-everything-done-instantly" button—at least not for a compiler project. About half of my coding sessions so far have been spent hunting down bugs causing the compiler to crash. Each fix often required 30–45 minutes of deep debugging, only to uncover the next crash further down the line. Self-hosting a compiler is no easy feat, and AI doesn't change that fact.

When I say self-hosting, I mean it can compile itself and produce byte-for-byte exact output, but it's still far from a "turnkey" solution. I still require GCC to bootstrap the System unit and RTL C code, and I need FPC to bootstrap the stage-1 compiler so it can build the stage-2 version. Right now, I’m busy stripping out FPC-specific parts from the source so the stage-2 compiler can build purely Blaise-native code. Even then, linking the QBE and assembler code into a final binary is still a manual process. It’s crazy how much I’ve learned in such a short period.

In short, Claude required constant, high-level guidance. It didn't 'build' the compiler; it acted as a highly efficient junior partner that followed my architectural blueprints. By offloading the boilerplate and using it as a sounding board for design decisions, I’ve been able to move at a pace that simply wouldn't have been possible alone—all while keeping full control over the quality of the final binary.

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440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2026, 12:02:32 pm »
Thank you very much @Graeme, that post contains a lot of very valuable information.  I also am in complete philosophical agreement that A.I should be used as an "assistant".  IOW, like you, I have to have intimate knowledge of every single line of code without exception.  I feel that's the only way to ensure a minimal level of acceptable quality (which should be high anyway.)

Again, thank you @Graeme, all of that information is very helpful to me.
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gidesa

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2026, 01:16:25 pm »
Note that maintaining such large codebases, with same performance, will require always to use AI "robots", probably only the commercial ones.
That is, when one started to use AI to improve (dramatically) his developing performance, then he/she will be chained forever to that commercial AI service.
Not the only case of it, but it's funny for opensource projects.
So now we see an explosion of new projects, but only very few of them will survive of the more and more costs in using continuously AI.
 

440bx

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2026, 04:11:32 pm »
only very few of them will survive of the more and more costs in using continuously AI.
You might very well be right but, from all the studying I've done so far, I get the impression that one of the most critical aspects to successfully use A.I in software projects is reaching a level of modularization that would be difficult to reach without AI.  IOW, if the project is well modularized then the AI model, seldom if ever, has to deal with the whole project at once, it only deals with one module at a time and the interfaces between the various modules.  Granted that can still be a lot of information but, it should be a whole lot less than what makes up the entire project.

I am getting the impression that one of the benefits of AI will be to force programmers to spend more time analyzing how to modularize a software system precisely because of the AI use concern you mentioned.  That's essentially what Claude's "write a C compiler" project did, not only is the compiler modularized but so is the process used to create the compiler.  I believe, we programmers, will need to develop new skills to deal with AI or enhance some of our existing skills to effectively deal with A.I. Actually, probably a combination of both.


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Graeme

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2026, 10:03:00 am »
So now we see an explosion of new projects, but only very few of them will survive of the more and more costs in using continuously AI.
Indeed, the explosion of new software is happening. What I like is that people can now scratch their own itch. Lots of smaller and often incredibly usefully little apps are popping up. Something that was only possible for those more skilled developers.

I don't think any project is ever tied to a specific AI model. You can always run your own local LLM with the right hardware. Yes, the experience is different, but you can still get that AI assistance without a monthly costs.
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Martin_fr

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2026, 11:12:17 am »
For the attention of several recent posts

https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,73827.0.html
Quote
Any discussions on this board should target Pascal related work.

gidesa

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Re: A.I, the future of Pascal and Open Source...
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2026, 05:45:51 pm »
I don't think any project is ever tied to a specific AI model. You can always run your own local LLM with the right hardware. Yes, the experience is different, but you can still get that AI assistance without a monthly costs.

Yes, there is the local installed AI, and some free AI services.
But all the people, that have done complex AI-assisted Pascal projects, say in this forum that only  the agentic commercial AI (that is, only Claude Code) is really viable to use.

 

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