could Ardour's YTK be used as a GTK2 replacement?

[AmatCoder]

But... why YTK?

You can do the same with plain GTK2.
A few deprecated functions won't make any size difference. It's not worth it.

...showing the size difference between GTK2 and YTK is just 3.6mb for smaller applications. this is a number massively less that what Thaddy and others had earlier predicted.

Because only libgtk/libgdk are statically linked
All the others libraries needed by the application are not.

For example, my static build included all libraries and it takes up 25M but...this means that It even works on systems that don't have GTK/GLib installed!

[robert rozee]

But... why YTK?
[...]

for exactly the same reason that the Ardour project does, of course.
https://ardour.org/

[...] All the others libraries needed by the application are not. For example, my static build included all libraries and it takes up 25M but...this means that It even works on systems that don't have GTK/GLib installed!

true - that is a point i have been considering. are you able to tell us what other libraries are exclusively part of GTK2? alternatively, is there anyone out there who has a distro available that has no GTK present (perhaps even no widget set at all, just X11), and can therefore test which dependencies are not being met?


cheers,
rob   :-)

[robert rozee]

Fred: when i run the 5 line shell script i get:

Code: Text  [Select][+][-]

1. --- heaps of lines above here clipped out ---
2. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../unix/cwstring.pp
3. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE fpcylix.pp
4. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../inc/softfpu.pp
5. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../inc/sfpux80.pp
6. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../inc/ufloatx80.pp
7. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../inc/sfpu128.pp
8. fpc -Ur -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fi../inc -Fi../x86_64 -Fi../unix -Fix86_64 -FE. -FU../../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dx86_64 -dRELEASE ../inc/ufloat128.pp
9. make[7]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/rtl/linux'
10. make[6]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/rtl'
11. make[5]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
12. make cycleclean compiler
13. make[5]: Entering directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
14. /usr/bin/rm -f pp pp.o libppp.a libimppp.a
15. /usr/bin/rm -rf units
16. /usr/bin/rm -rf bin
17. /usr/bin/rm -f *.o *.ppu *.rst *.s *.a *.so *.ppl
18. /usr/bin/rm -rf *.sl
19. /usr/bin/rm -f fpcmade.* Package.fpc ./ppas.sh script.res link.res  
20. /usr/bin/rm -f *_ppas.sh ppas.sh ppaslink.sh
21. make -C utils cleanall
22. make[6]: Entering directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler/utils'
23. /usr/bin/rm -f fpc ppufiles ppudump ppumove mka64ins mkarmins mkx86ins fpc.o ppufiles.o ppudump.o ppumove.o mka64ins.o mkarmins.o mkx86ins.o libpfpc.a libpppufiles.a libpppudump.a libpppumove.a libpmka64ins.a libpmkarmins.a libpmkx86ins.a libimpfpc.a libimpppufiles.a libimpppudump.a libimpppumove.a libimpmka64ins.a libimpmkarmins.a libimpmkx86ins.a
24. /usr/bin/rm -f units/x86_64-linux/ppu.ppu units/x86_64-linux/crc.ppu
25. /usr/bin/rm -rf units
26. /usr/bin/rm -rf bin
27. /usr/bin/rm -f *.o *.ppu *.rst *.s *.a *.so *.ppl
28. /usr/bin/rm -rf *.sl
29. /usr/bin/rm -f fpcmade.* Package.fpc ./ppas.sh script.res link.res  
30. /usr/bin/rm -f *_ppas.sh ppas.sh ppaslink.sh
31. make[6]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler/utils'
32. /usr/bin/rm -rf x86_64/units
33. /usr/bin/rm -rf x86_64/bin
34. /usr/bin/rm -f x86_64/*.o x86_64/*.ppu x86_64/*.rst x86_64/*.s x86_64/*.a x86_64/*.so x86_64/*.ppl
35. /usr/bin/rm -f x86_64/ppc386 x86_64/ppc68k x86_64/ppcppc x86_64/ppcsparc x86_64/ppcarm x86_64/ppcarmeb x86_64/ppcx64 x86_64/ppcppc64 x86_64/ppcmips x86_64/ppcmipsel x86_64/ppcavr x86_64/ppcjvm x86_64/ppc8086 x86_64/ppca64 x86_64/ppcsparc64
36. /usr/bin/rm -f ppcx64
37. /usr/bin/mkdir -p x86_64/units/x86_64-linux
38. fpc -Ur -Xs -O2 -n -Fux86_64 -Fusystems -Fu../rtl/units/x86_64-linux -Fix86_64 -FE. -FUx86_64/units/x86_64-linux -Cg -dRELEASE -dx86_64 -dGDB -dBROWSERLOG -Fux86 pp.pas
39. /usr/bin/mv -f ./pp ppcx64
40. make[5]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
41. make echotime
42. make[5]: Entering directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
43. Start now 22:13:47
44. make[5]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
45. make[4]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
46. /usr/bin/rm -f ppc1
47. /usr/bin/mv -f ppcx64 ppc1
48. make 'FPC=/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler/ppc1' 'OLDFPC=' next CYCLELEVEL=2
49. make[4]: Entering directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
50. Makefile:135: *** Compiler /home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler/ppc1 not found.  Stop.
51. make[4]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
52. make[3]: *** [Makefile:4339: ppc2] Error 2
53. make[3]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
54. make[2]: *** [Makefile:4347: cycle] Error 2
55. make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler'
56. make[1]: *** [Makefile:2800: compiler_cycle] Error 2
57. make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk'
58. make: *** [Makefile:2832: build-stamp.x86_64-linux] Error 2
59. root@user-DH61BE:/home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk#

i think the line where things fall apart is line 50:
Makefile:135: *** Compiler /home/user/pascal/Lazarus (local)/fpc-ytk/compiler/ppc1 not found.  Stop.

ideally, i'd like to be able to create a directory in my home directory, and for everything to be built and contained within in just that directory. is this possible?


cheers,
rob   :-)


btw, instead of cloning, i just downloaded as .zip files, from which i unpacked the top directories to give:

user@user-DH61BE:~/pascal/Lazarus-(local)$ ls -l
total 63748
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user  4803016 Mar 15 21:50 '1.ytk-fpc-main.zip'
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user 60458217 Mar 15 21:55 '2.fpc-ytk.zip'
drwxrwxr-x 8 user user     4096 Mar 15 22:13  fpc-ytk
drwxrwxr-x 6 user user     4096 Mar 15 21:55  ytk-fpc-main

user@user-DH61BE:~/pascal/Lazarus-(local)$ ls ytk-fpc-main/ -l
total 86004
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user      197 Mar 13 21:56 GNUmakefile
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user 12312214 Mar 15 21:53 libydk.a
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user  2359746 Mar 15 21:53 libydk-pixbuf.a
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user 70688496 Mar 15 21:55 libytk.a
-rw-rw-r-- 1 user user  2658906 Mar 15 21:52 libztk.a
drwxrwxr-x 6 user user     4096 Mar 15 21:53 ydk
drwxrwxr-x 5 user user     4096 Mar 15 21:52 ydk-pixbuf
drwxrwxr-x 4 user user    20480 Mar 15 21:55 ytk
drwxrwxr-x 3 user user     4096 Mar 15 21:52 ztk

user@user-DH61BE:~/pascal/Lazarus-(local)$ ls fpc-ytk/ -l
total 200
drwxrwxr-x  24 user user 12288 Mar 15 22:20 compiler
-rw-rw-r--   1 user user   254 Mar 13 21:56 fpmake_add1.inc
-rw-rw-r--   1 user user  1225 Mar 13 21:56 fpmake.pp
-rw-rw-r--   1 user user   194 Mar 13 21:56 fpmake_proc1.inc
drwxrwxr-x   2 user user  4096 Mar 13 21:56 installer
-rw-rw-r--   1 user user 72466 Mar 13 21:56 Makefile
-rw-rw-r--   1 user user  8859 Mar 13 21:56 Makefile.fpc
drwxrwxr-x 151 user user  4096 Mar 13 21:56 packages
drwxrwxr-x  61 user user  4096 Mar 15 22:05 rtl
-rwxrwxr-x   1 user user   140 Mar 15 22:11 script
drwxrwxr-x  11 user user  4096 Mar 13 21:56 tests
drwxrwxr-x  28 user user  4096 Mar 13 21:56 utils

[robert rozee]

Fred: should the four libxxx.a files be placed in /usr/local/lib or /usr/lib?

and should the fourth line of the shell script end in OPT="-Fl/usr/local/lib" or instead OPT="-Fl/usr/lib"?


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Thausand]

should the four libxxx.a files be placed in /usr/local/lib or /usr/lib?

Not one and not other. I not have looked but if single time static link then not put in system. Can be anywhere when add library path option to location.

and should the fourth line of the shell script end in OPT="-Fl/usr/local/lib" or instead OPT="-Fl/usr/lib"?

library path option is point to what is location static library. Can be locate anywhere.

If use one time for link static libraries then this is work.

I have ask why is need all fpc source ? patch for fpc 3.2.2 more easy. Also more easy for make patch use define.

[Fred vS]

Fred: when i run the 5 line shell script i get:
...

Hello Rob.

I dont know why you get problems, here it was ootb.

The directory of my fpc-ytk is: /home/fred/Downloads/fpc-ytk

You need to paste the script in that directory.

Regarding `OPT="-Fl/usr/local/lib"`, it might not be necessary. I use it because it can be required for BSD, and I use the same script for all Unix operating systems.

As for where to put the static libraries, I put them in `/usr/lib` because at linking ld finds them there. But of course, it's possible to put them elsewhere since they are static but then afaik to compile lazarus a parameter is needed for "make" (and I dont remember witch).

[Thausand]

I dont know why you get problems, here it was ootb.

Maybe have write COMPILER=fpc is for bootstrap fpc (3.2.0). may be robert have other version fpc in path.

Regarding `OPT="-Fl/usr/local/lib"`, it might not be necessary. I use it because it can be required for BSD, and I use the same script for all Unix operating systems.

Is not problem and can be there. afaik robert have write want stand alone, then can have if want.

As for where to put the static libraries, I put them in `/usr/lib` because at linking ld finds them there. But of course, it's possible to put them elsewhere since they are static but then afaik to compile lazarus a parameter is needed for "make" (and I dont remember witch).

Make smart fpc-ytk.sh script.

Code: [Select]

to/fpc -n @to/fpc.cfg -dytk $@

then in fpc.cfg have make IFDEF ytk and have -Fl"where_is_static_ytk_lib"

fpc is pass option for linker. Only is problem when use custom linker setup and have interfere (example is when use custom linker script). If have custom linker configuration then person is smart and know how can solve.

When configure Lazarus then have fpc compiler is use fpc-ytk.sh (no fpc). Lazarus is complain that is no valid compiler  but that no matter (make raise middle finger  )

[robert rozee]

well, turns out the problem was due to the name of directory i was working in: "Lazarus (local)", with something in the build scripts taking exception to there being an opening bracket in the name! once i rename the directory to "Lazarus-local" everything ran to completion.

except... if i now try to build an existing Lazarus project, just by double-clicking on a .lpi file, i get the errors:

Code: Text  [Select][+][-]

1. Compile Project, Mode: Default, Target: /home/user/pascal/GFXterm 2.1d/project1: Exit code 1, Errors: 1, Warnings: 1
2. Warning: Recompiling Gtk2Int, checksum changed for /usr/lib/fpc/3.2.2/units/x86_64-linux/gtk2/gdk2pixbuf.ppu
3. gtk2int.pas(15,16) Error: Can't find unit Gtk2Int used by Interfaces

my guess is that the build scripts have 'leaked out' of the directory i was working in, partially overwriting my existing installation of FPC. in retrospect, i should have done this all in a VM. how do i undo this unholy mess?!


cheers,
rob   :-(

[Fred vS]

Code: [Select]

[quote author=robert rozee link=topic=73590.msg578504#msg578504 date=1773582363]
Warning: Recompiling Gtk2Int, checksum changed for /usr/lib/fpc/3.2.2/units/x86_64-linux/gtk2/gdk2pixbuf.ppu
gtk2int.pas(15,16) Error: Can't find unit Gtk2Int used by Interfaces[/quote]

I dont know, here it works ootb.
Maybe try to compile lazarus with make clean at init and be sure the fpc-ytk is used for compilation.

[Fred vS]

@Rob.

It seems that the problem comes because you are using the official  fpc 3.2.2 and not fpc-ytk.

Did you install fpc-ytk on your system?

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1. #!/bin/sh
2.  
3. COMPILER=fpc
4.  
5. INSTALLDIR=/usr
6.  
7. make FPC=$COMPILER install INSTALL_PREFIX=$INSTALLDIR
8.  

It is the easy way, after your test you may reinstall official fpc.

[Fred vS]

@Rob: for your eyes only: https://github.com/fredvs/test/releases/download/vstrum/project1.zip

[robert rozee]

right - have paused attempts at repair and moved over to working on a VM. Linux Mint 21.2, x86-64. FPC and Lazarus were already installed in the VM, so i uninstalled them before starting.

first thing i discovered was that i needed FPC to be installed to run the 5-line script - kind of obvious as there is no bootstrap compiler, a minor point but worth mentioning in any instructions. so i reinstalled just the FPC compiler package from Sourceforge and re-ran the script. apart from that small hiccup, everything else ran to completion fine. once finished i did have to go searching for startlazarus, it was (of course) sitting in the lazarus-ytk directory and ran fine from that location.

with the IDE running i managed (with a bit of effort) to load a project - just a single window with a digital clock running in it, my standard test program. it compiled and then ran successfully!

here are the results of comparing the two ELF binaries, one built before i started for GTK2, the other just built for YTK:

Code: Text  [Select][+][-]

1. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$ ls -l 'project1 ('*
2. -rwxrwxr-x 1 user user 2985720 Mar 25  2025 'project1 (GTK2)'
3. -rwxrwxr-x 1 user user 6570664 Mar 16 03:25 'project1 (YTK)'
4. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$
5. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$
6.  
7. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$ readelf -d 'project1 (GTK2)' | grep -i "needed"
8.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libdl.so.2]
9.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0]
10.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0]
11.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libX11.so.6]
12.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgdk_pixbuf-2.0.so.0]
13.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgobject-2.0.so.0]
14.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libglib-2.0.so.0]
15.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgthread-2.0.so.0]
16.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgmodule-2.0.so.0]
17.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libpango-1.0.so.0]
18.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libcairo.so.2]
19.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libatk-1.0.so.0]
20.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libc.so.6]
21. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$
22. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$
23.  
24. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$ readelf -d 'project1 (YTK)' | grep -i "needed"
25.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libdl.so.2]
26.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libX11.so.6]
27.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libglib-2.0.so.0]
28.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgobject-2.0.so.0]
29.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libpng16.so.16]
30.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libpangocairo-1.0.so.0]
31.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libcairo.so.2]
32.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgio-2.0.so.0]
33.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libpangoft2-1.0.so.0]
34.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libpango-1.0.so.0]
35.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libharfbuzz.so.0]
36.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libfontconfig.so.1]
37.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libfreetype.so.6]
38.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libm.so.6]
39.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libXext.so.6]
40.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libXrender.so.1]
41.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libXinerama.so.1]
42.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgthread-2.0.so.0]
43.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libgmodule-2.0.so.0]
44.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libatk-1.0.so.0]
45.  0x0000000000000001 (NEEDED)             Shared library: [libc.so.6]
46. user@test:~/Pascal/Clock$

i'll fix up my main machine's FPC tomorrow - it is just gone 4am here!


cheers,
rob   :-)

[robert rozee]

@Rob: for your eyes only: https://github.com/fredvs/test/releases/download/vstrum/project1.zip

that is extremely cool!   


cheers,
rob   :-)

[robert rozee]

[...] after your test you may reinstall official fpc.

i did just that in the end - ran the FPC install from SourceForge (fpc-laz_3.2.2-210709_amd64.deb) and everything on my main machine started working again.

finally am really heading off to bed, it is now just after 5am here   


cheers,
rob   :-)

[abouchez]

This is great job!
 

Do you think there is a chance your YTK branch could be merged into Lazarus somewhat officially?
Perhaps with some $ifdef$ in the official source and a new "YTK" LCL widget type?
Ability to create pure X11 app could be a killer feature for Lazarus, especially waiting for GTK3 support to be finalized.