Is Lazarus still serious ?

[Curt Carpenter]

No, sorry:  I'm not knowledgeable enough to know.  Good people here that can give you an authoritative answer though so let me back out for them.

[dryzone]

e.g. "lazarus-project conflicts with lazarus-src
  lazarus-src-2.2 provides lazarus-src and is present and installed."

Lazarus-src package is not from our project. I guess you are mixing distro packages with packages provided by Lazarus project. It is not a good idea.

Please consult your download page at Lazarus website
"https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Linux%20amd64%20DEB/Lazarus%204.0/"

AND then read the comment under the software links
"You need to download and install all three packages fpc-laz, fpc-src and lazarus-project."

Your comment seemingly contradict the instructions from the Lazarus download page ?!
How can the source of the Lazarus code not belong to Lazarus ?  .
Fine the download page list fpc-source, but this raises an even more absurd issue about lazarus-source.

Why is it not allowed to have the lazarus source and lazarus-project installed at the same time?
This utterly makes no sense and should be viewed as a serious packaging QC bug.

I have never encountered an application that does not allow concurrent installation of the sources and the Lazarus-source seemingly clashes with the Lazarus-project code. Makes no sense.!
What do you create Lazarus from if the Lazarus-source code is different from what is used in Lazarus-project ?  Makes no sense.

[Joanna]

Have you considered using fefora Linux?

[dbannon]

Been developing with Lazarus and free pascal for very long and been using linux for 27 years.

Gee, 27 years, honestly, I'd expect you to have mastered configuration by now.

1) The apt version is just downrightly an abomination. Fair, that is not only you fault, but also partly the distro packager.

Seems you understand the relationship with the distro packager, if so, why post about it here ? Debian have a great fault reporting process, everything gets looked at. I have mentioned that the way they, Debian, package, in distinct modules, causes user problems but they tell me it is what people want. If people like you told them of the problem it causes maybe they would reconsider ?  Certainly nothing can be done from here.

2) Then installing directly from the Lazarus Website, you need to install three debs ....
Whatever I do after reading the "goREADME",  installation of lazarus project clashed with the source.
e.g. "lazarus-project conflicts with lazarus-src  ....

Yes, what you you expect ?  The message, from the apt system, is quite plain, you are applying a Lazarus install when you already have a differently structured Lazarus install in place. Going to put a new engine in your car, remove the old one first !

Then trying to compile a KNOWN WORKING program, I get

... All sorts of errors because you are mixing two incompatible versions. You need to completely remove the repo based install, all its files and config data. It quite possible that apt may not be able to do that now you have cross installed, so look for any evidence of left over stuff. And remove $HOME/.lazarus too. And /etc/fpc.cfg and, possibly $HOME/.fpc.cfg

Then install your chosen model. I strongly suggest you install just FPC322 from the repo, use that to build the FPC324rc1 beta from source. Install that new FPC in user space, not root. Then build Lazarus 4.0 from source. Both builds done as you, the user and keep the results in user space (don't bother to 'install' lazarus, just run it from the built source directory). If you have been using Linux for 27 years, that should be a doddle. (remove, using apt, the FPC322 install when finished to avoid confusion).  Set your $PATH to point to the new FPC. This is all doc'ed on the wiki.

If you cannot handle the above (and lots of people cannot), yes, use the official install debs from Source Forge. They will work OK if installed on a clean system, that is one with no residue of a previous, incompatible install. The one problem you might have is getting your fpc.cfg correct, FPC322 was not great, FPC324rc1 a heap better. But even with the old, FPC322 one, you, an experienced user, can edit it to what it should be easily.

Davo

[dryzone]

Thank you for your carefully wordsmythed response.
Unfortunately you are reading into things that are not necessarily what is experienced or happening here and present solutions to invented problems.
I could not explain everything in the short original text, so rightfully you are jumping at 700mph at conclusions. These errors happens with or without the apt installation which fails on its own also. I did remove all lazarus and fpc with dpkg --purge, but the problems remains the same when I install the version straight from the Lazarus site.
Lazarus cannot find graph unit, And never will seemingly.
Lazarus cannot find units in general although they are installed
You have to feed EVERY needed unit with -Fu switch.
and so on.
This has been verified with and without the apt distribution. So there. You read into things and conflate things, but I understand why you need to do that.
 
Quite frankly if a n application cannot find it's own units when they are in the path and installed, then I honestly dont know if it is at all serious about QC.
At least TEST what is released.
Users can only test so far. We did not write the software.
I did not really ask for help at all. I am fully capable to sort this out except for that abomination with Lazarus not being able to find it's own units, while they are present and installed and Lazarus use paths where  they reside.

My question is why there seems to be such a huge lack of QC compared to previous years. 2017 seems to be the last year Lazarus installs without issues on the Distros I use and the installation process have been degrading ever since to the point that it now becomes absolutely useless on Debian/MX even if installed from Lazarus site.

[Martin_fr]

-Fu should not be the solution. It is likely to add more new issues than fixing existing...

1) Ensure you have cleared your config
  ~/.lazarus

Back it up, and clear/remove the folder.

The next start Lazarus should display the "setup dialog" letting you confirm the various paths to fpc and sources....

- Ensure there are no warnings.
- take a screen shot, and post here


2) Compile a project (start with a new empty app)

Save it before compiling. So it wont be in your tmp folder. That way we don't need to worry what leftovers could be in the tmp folder.
Save it to a new empty folder.

when you get the errors, right click the error window.
Select
 Copy > Copy all and original messages

Post those messages here.

[dryzone]

-Fu should not be the solution. It is likely to add more new issues than fixing existing...

1) Ensure you have cleared your config
  ~/.lazarus

Back it up, and clear/remove the folder.
etc

Thank you I will do as you suggest.

[JuhaManninen]

e.g. "lazarus-project conflicts with lazarus-src
  lazarus-src-2.2 provides lazarus-src and is present and installed."

Lazarus-src package is not from our project. I guess you are mixing distro packages with packages provided by Lazarus project. It is not a good idea.

Please consult your download page at Lazarus website
"https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Linux%20amd64%20DEB/Lazarus%204.0/"

AND then read the comment under the software links
"You need to download and install all three packages fpc-laz, fpc-src and lazarus-project."

Your comment seemingly contradict the instructions from the Lazarus download page ?!

How does it contradict? There is no package named Lazarus-src there, as you just quoted yourself.

[dbannon]

Pretty much repeating myself ...

Unfortunately you are reading into things that are not necessarily what is experienced or happening here and present solutions to invented problems.

The error message you showed us, from the apt system, was definitely the one you get when you install multiple, incompatible, Lazarus.

The most likely problem that leads to is an incorrect fpc.cfg file. FPC uses that file to find all the units it needs. If you use a fpc.cfg that points to units that no longer exit you get a situation you may choose to fix usig -Fu.  However the proper way to fix it is to either edit or replace the incorrect fpc.cfg.

Have you looked at what your in-use fpc.cfg says in its -Fu lines ? See if there are units in the location mentioned ?

Again, as I said, FPC324rc1 has a much smarter fpc.cfg. But all versions of FPC have a tool to make a new one (but be warned, 'stray' fpc.cfg file will still break things.)

I did remove all lazarus and fpc with dpkg --purge, but the problems remains the same when I install the version straight from the Lazarus site.

And I did tell you that installing incompatible FPC/Lazarus may  break apt's ability to remove all installed files.

Lazarus cannot find graph unit, And never will seemingly.

Nor will it find many other units until you get your fpc.cfg sorted out.

You have to feed EVERY needed unit with -Fu switch.

Sigh... no you do not. You need to get your fpc.cfg sorted.

Quite frankly if a n application cannot find it's own units when they are in the path and installed, then I honestly dont know if it is at all serious about QC.

Do you mean "if a mis-configured application cannot find it's own units ..."  ?   

Davo

EDIT : if you want to know which fpc.cfg you are using, please try the following (and which fpc too) :

Code: Bash  [Select][+][-]

1. dbannon@dell:$> which fpc
2. /home/dbannon/bin/FPC/fpc-3.2.4/bin/fpc
3.  
4. dbannon@dell:$> fpc -vh
5. Hint: Start of reading config file /home/dbannon/.fpc.cfg
6. Hint: End of reading config file /home/dbannon/.fpc.cfg
7. Free Pascal Compiler version 3.2.4-rc1 [2024/07/22] for x86_64
8. Copyright (c) 1993-2024 by Florian Klaempfl and others
9. Fatal: No source file name in command line
10. Fatal: Compilation aborted
11. Error: /home/dbannon/bin/FPC/fpc-3.2.4/bin/ppcx64 returned an error exitcode
12.  
13. dbannon@dell:$> find / -name fpc.cfg 2>/dev/null
14. /home/dbannon/bin/FPC/fpc-cc/etc/fpc.cfg
15. /home/dbannon/bin/FPC/fpc-main/etc/fpc.cfg
16. /home/dbannon/bin/FPC/fpc-3.2.4/etc/fpc.cfg
17. /home/dbannon/Pico2/fpc/bin/x86_64-linux/fpc.cfg
18. /home/dbannon/Pico/fpc/bin/x86_64-linux/fpc.cfg

You see, in my case, I'm using ~/.fpc.cfg but there are several more there in various installs. Watch in particular for ones in /etc/
Also note that the fpc.cfg I am using does not show upon that "find" because its called .fpc.cfg - living, as it does in my home dir.

Davo

[Thaddy]

The one in /etc/fpc.cfg is the only correct one.... unless you run Lazarus/fpc compiled with fpcupdeluxe.

Be careful mutilating that one.
It is better to replace any other fpc.cfg with symlinks to /etc/fpc.cfg.
That is: unless you want a custom one explicitly.

You can configure /etc/fpc.cfg for any sub-target or target from a single config file.
That is how it is intended to work.

[dbannon]

The one in /etc/fpc.cfg is the only correct one.... unless you run Lazarus/fpc compiled with fpcupdeluxe.

There is no single "correct one". FPC looks in a number of places, the current working dir, $HOME, /etc/ - there is a use case for each and each location can do the job well. Whats important is the content of the cfg file in use. And any location can contain good or bad content.

The FPC324rc1 makes a much better cfg file than does, eg, FPC322, use of the replaceable parameters makes it far more flexible. I use a hand edited version - I think initially created by either FPC324 or maybe main ? It does not mater, I understand its content.

The problem with /etc/fpc.cfg is its put there by  deb or rpm installer and is read only without resorting to root. And if you have changed it,a deb --purge may not remove it. And its further complicated by the 'alternativeto system debian uses (and I hate). So, for me, $HOME is, generally, the right place.

Davo

[CM630]

I do not think there is a tool for Linux, which is even close to Inno Setup.
Is Linux still serious?
But yes, installing/reinstalling Lazarus in Linux is hard, I wish there was a single .deb at least.

[Thaddy]

Can you point me to the "hard" part?

Code: Bash  [Select][+][-]

1. # example recipe for linux64 debian flavors (includes Ubuntu and Mint)
2. sudo su
3. apt update
4. # just once, install git
5. apt install git
6. # just once, install build-essential
7. apt install build-essential
8. # just once, install a bootstrap compiler
9. apt install fp-compiler
10. # just once, clone the sources
11. git clone https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org/fpc/source.git fpcmain
12. # all the above is done once only.
13.  
14. #afterwards update the repository
15. cd fpcmain
16. git pull
17. make clean all install PREFIX=/usr PP=/usr/bin/fpc/ppcx64-3.2.2
18. cp /usr/lib/fpc/3.3.1/ppcx64 /usr/bin
19. # or symlink which is better for some
20. #exit root
21. exit

Now that is pretty easy isn't it?

[dbannon]

Firstly Thaddy, it quite unnecessary to install FPC and Lazarus as root. It is a needless risk, not always possible and a messed up install is quite hard to clean up. By installing in user space, its easy to work with several versions and easy to remove unwanted installs. Having FPC outside your $PATH lets you add a particular PATH item as you wish.

And the question was how to install, easily, Lazarus (although that implies FPC first of course).

CM630, if you are installing FPC/Lazarus only occasionally, then, just follow the step by step instructions (eg on the Wiki). Its a bit tedious but certainly not hard.

I find myself doing new installs (on VMs) quite often so scripted it and made prebuilt binaries to avoid the need to first install FPC322 to get FPC324. So my model on a new VM where I need to do some debuging is -

Code: Bash  [Select][+][-]

1. $> cd ~/Downloads
2. $> wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/davidbannon/FPC_Laz_Install/refs/heads/main/fpc-tar.bash
3. $> wget https://github.com/davidbannon/FPC_Laz_Install/releases/download/v2.0/fpc-3-2-4rc1.tgz
4. $> bash ./fpc-tar.bash -f 324rc1 -a -r
5. $> source ~/.bashrc <enter>

That will install the full FPC binary and source into user space, and set your PATH to find it.
Followed by  (or, just this if you already have a working FPC)

Code: Bash  [Select][+][-]

1. >$ cd ~/Downloads
2. >$ wget https://github.com/davidbannon/FPC_Laz_Install/raw/refs/heads/main/make-lazarus.bash
3. >$ bash ./make-lazarus.bash -r -f 4_0  -d <enter>

That will download the indicated Lazarus source, build it and set up for you to use it (there, again in user space, Lazarus is a lot happier in user space ! ). Makes a config dir, points this Lazarus to it, creates a desktop file and a startup script.

This model works for me. Its quick and easy, definitely not foolproof, probably only suited to someone who is comfortable with Linux. In this case, and every case,you should look over the scripts and ensure I am not planning anything nasty ! Do NOT compare this to fpcupdeluxe, this is, by comparison just a couple of dirty scripts !

 https://github.com/davidbannon/FPC_Laz_Install/

I am really showing you how easy it to script yourself (but you are welcome to use mine if you want.)

Davo

[ginoo]

Can you answer a question I haven't been able to answer? Where do I set the location of fpc.cfg in a Lazarus installation (in my case, Linux)? I have an installation and would like to change the location of fpc.cfg. Where should it be set?

Thanks.