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Author Topic: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.  (Read 1496 times)

Fred vS

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X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« on: June 14, 2025, 09:58:54 pm »
RedHat has decided to destroy all its X11 directories and updates.

All this to impose its buggy Wayland.

Fortunately, some X11/XWayland developers decided to take over and update the fabulous X11 and created X11Libre last month.

https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

dbannon

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2025, 10:59:42 am »
Wow -

This fork was necessary since toxic elements within Xorg projects, moles from BigTech, are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project, to eliminate competition of their own products. Classic "embrace, extend, extinguish" tactics.

Thats some statement !

Davo
Lazarus 3, Linux (and reluctantly Win10/11, OSX Monterey)
My Project - https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng and my github - https://github.com/davidbannon

dsiders

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2025, 04:41:51 pm »
Preview the next Lazarus documentation release at: https://dsiders.gitlab.io/lazdocsnext

zeljko

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2025, 04:49:02 pm »
Looks like they're playing their personal wars via xorg. That's why big tech say goodbye to them.

Fred vS

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2025, 05:19:24 pm »
Quote
The other side of the coin: https://www.phoronix.com/news/X.Org-Server-Lots-Of-Reverts

Quote
Looks like they're playing their personal wars via xorg. That's why big tech say goodbye to them.

Shure there must have been something that made them decide to fork.

And it seems there were some political considerations (see their readme.txt).

But it must also be admitted that RedHad and IBM behave like dictators.

It's probably the only way Big Tech can act.
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

Seenkao

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2025, 08:38:12 pm »
Думаю X уже давно надо было отделиться от Wayland.
Что происходило в последнее время? (Как это вижу я).
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Разработчики Wayland производили поддержку кода и Wayland и X. Возможно многие этого не замечали, но можно было это всё увидеть в изменениях у них. Не развивался ни Wayland ни X. Основные изменения были только для того, чтоб сделать прослойку для Wayland - XWayland.
Исходя из этого достаточно понять, что ни кто не захочет развития X, по причине того, что XWayland так же надо будет менять для совместимости. А это дополнительная работа, которая опять задерживает развитие и X и Wayland.

X должны развиваться отдельно, и это должно было делаться изначально. Просто ни кто не хотел браться за них, все привыкли, что корпорация отвечает за изменения и поддержку. Результат видим сейчас.

Загнётся ли развитие X? Вряд ли. Но разработчикам разных ОС надо объединиться и развивать одну систему X, а не делать множество их.


------------------------------------------
Google translate:
I think X should have split away from Wayland a long time ago.
What has been happening lately? (As I see it).
Quote
The developers of Wayland provided code support for both Wayland and X. Many may not have noticed this, but you could see it all in the changes they made. Neither Wayland nor X developed. The main changes were only to make a layer for Wayland - XWayland.
Based on this, it is enough to understand that no one will want to develop X, due to the fact that XWayland will also need to be changed for compatibility. And this is additional work, which again delays the development of both X and Wayland.

X should be developed separately, and this should have been done from the beginning. It's just that no one wanted to take them on, everyone was used to the corporation being responsible for changes and support. We can see the result now.

Will X development die out? Unlikely. But developers of different OSs need to unite and develop one X system, rather than making many of them.
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Fred vS

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2025, 08:59:47 pm »
Based on this, it is enough to understand that no one will want to develop X, due to the fact that XWayland will also need to be changed for compatibility. And this is additional work, which again delays the development of both X and Wayland.

I'm not yet in on the secret of their gods, but some developers of XWayland have joined the X11Libre project.

It's also worth noting that the majority of the Wayland project's commits concern XWayland.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2025, 10:59:09 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

MarkMLl

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2025, 09:17:35 pm »
In my humble opinion, the X11Libre project has a chance of winning if the developers of Xenocara (the updated X11 of OpenBSD) join the project.
I saw that the invitation has been extended; I hope the Xenocara developers accept it.

In any event, right now *our* problem is how many versions of GTK we lag by, and how badly the various distreaux have mangled our Qt interface library.

MarkMLl
MT+86 & Turbo Pascal v1 on CCP/M-86, multitasking with LAN & graphics in 128Kb.
Logitech, TopSpeed & FTL Modula-2 on bare metal (Z80, '286 protected mode).
Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

Fred vS

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2025, 09:20:35 pm »
In my humble opinion, the X11Libre project has a chance of winning if the developers of Xenocara (the updated X11 of OpenBSD) join the project.
I saw that the invitation has been extended; I hope the Xenocara developers accept it.

In any event, right now *our* problem is how many versions of GTK we lag by, and how badly the various distreaux have mangled our Qt interface library.

MarkMLl

GTK is slaved by RedHat-IBM.
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

MarkMLl

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2025, 09:39:59 pm »
GTK is slaved by RedHat-IBM.

So what's your suggestion: do everything via Qt?

At which point we're screwed since FPC can't interwork with C++ without a shim, and that shim's been grievously unstable (for which I'm not blaming its maintainer) over the last few years.

MarkMLl
MT+86 & Turbo Pascal v1 on CCP/M-86, multitasking with LAN & graphics in 128Kb.
Logitech, TopSpeed & FTL Modula-2 on bare metal (Z80, '286 protected mode).
Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

Fred vS

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2025, 09:44:08 pm »
So what's your suggestion: do everything via Qt?

Do everything via MSEgui !  ;D  O:-)
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

Fred vS

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2025, 04:07:05 pm »
First release 25.0.0.0 of XLibre is born! 
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver

Many highly skilled developers have joined the party.

Already lot of commits/bug fixes  and over 2.5K subscribers in 2 weeks.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2025, 04:18:33 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs
https://codeberg.org/fredvs

dbannon

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Re: X11Libre, finally and fortunately.
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2025, 08:55:11 am »
At which point we're screwed since FPC can't interwork with C++ without a shim, and that shim's been grievously unstable (for which I'm not blaming its maintainer) over the last few years.

No, I don't think the shim has been unstable. The problem is that its locked to Lazarus releases. It needs to lead lazarus, as a stand alone product. Changes happen in LCL that require changes to libqt5pas, so when a Lazarus goes out it depends on the new lib, but everyone still has the old one installed and cannot understand why the new LCL won't work with the old library.

Incidentally, tested your app against GTK3 recently ?

Davo
Lazarus 3, Linux (and reluctantly Win10/11, OSX Monterey)
My Project - https://github.com/tomboy-notes/tomboy-ng and my github - https://github.com/davidbannon

 

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