Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?

[Handoko]

I've been in the forum for a long time. People popped up and said they wanted to offer help, to make Lazarus better. Some wanted to improve the documentation and wiki pages, some offered their modules that can be used for Lazarus to generate Android applications. Some were working on video tutorials. There were some discussions about improving the documentation and wiki. Some proof of concept tools had been created that could be used to generate Android applications. Several YouTube tutorials had been created. But then they stopped.

I could be wrong but I think if we can have several 'teams' we can contribute better for the Lazarus/Pascal community. Not limited to, but these are in my mind:

A team for improving the documentation and wiki
This is not an easy task, having a team of people working on it, will really ease it. They can discuss, communicate, share idea and tips, how and where to start.

A team for writing short demos
I believe with plenty of short demos, will make new users to learn Lazarus/Pascal easier. How to do xyz is often asked in the forum. Instead of give them explanations and links, it will be more helpful if we can supply them some demos to download and try. If we form a team, we can share tips how to write good demos, discuss and compile a list of demos we're going to work on.

A team for video tutorials
Finding video tutorials of certain topic is easy in other languages but not in Lazarus/Pascal. Video tutorials are very helpful when explaining GUI programming and IDE features.

A team for cosmetics improvements
Editor black themes, new splash screens, better quality icons, more modern websites, etc.

A team for greeting and helping newbies
Greeting newcomers is always a good thing to do.

Now back to what I said previously ... some efforts were made but then they stopped. I can't say for sure but I personally believe they grew tired working alone. By forming teams, we can motivate each others, share tips and split burdens. And we should make it clear for public (in sub forums or maybe a link), how to contact or post suggestions/requests to the teams.

If you agree with my idea, then we should talk about:
- What teams should be formed
- Is it any rules to refuse someone (troll) joining the team
- Does each team have a leader, if yes how to choose one

If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.

[Joanna]

Handoko I’ve been asking for help with restoring the real-time support team since 2019! It’s like pretending to have a business where nobody ever answers the phone and the sign in the window says “be back soon”
Good luck getting new customers

[Martin_fr]

If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.

Accepted / Rejected?  Even if some items may at some time need some form of it (and not all do need that), then that would not be at the beginning.

The acceptance is by "someone or some group starting to do". If you want a team, then acceptance simply means other joining it.

- Tasks like the wiki don't need approval, though the may get feedback.

- Its different for the website(s). There some limitations have previously be communicated. But even then, commitment comes before approval. I.e. unless someone has volunteered time and outlined tasks => there wont be much reaction (because otherwise the teams would rather often spend time on reviewing ideas for which there never was anyone to do them).

- Documentation works by submitting patches (start small / get feedback).

- putting info on social media, same as the wiki

...

[Handoko]

I’ve been asking for help with restoring the real-time support team since 2019!

I think to be real-time, is hard to achieved.

Lets say for example, if on average each volunteer is willing to spend 4 hours per day providing support. It will need at least 6 persons to be able to cover 24 hours. If you observe the questions asked in the forum, some of them are very advanced topics, only top skill members can provide the answers. I am not saying that is not possible, we now have a foundation. Maybe in the future, after the foundation collected enough money, they can allocate some of the money to pay for it.

The idea I suggested does not need to be real-time. For example if we form a team for greeting and helping newbies. While I am not sitting on my computer, maybe I am traveling on a taxi or waiting in a bank. I visit the forum using my phone and see a new forum member asking simple questions. I can notify my team's members so the can go online and provide help.

Eugene Loza ever contacted me. He said we could form a kind of team or group, so we can motivate and share ideas or working together. That actually was a good idea. Unfortunately that didn't happen because I was doing other things at that moment.

Do you know Delphi TeamA or B? Something like that but with a notable different, they were incentivized. If you are ever active in WordPress forum, you will know they have a 'team' of moderators that are monitoring and policing the forum very actively.

[Joanna]

Handoko Lazarus ide and fpc had good official real-time support in 2014 and It has none. I know there are still enough people who use pascal for there to be real-time support. Even if people could only volunteer for an hour a week it would be far better than NOTHING .
We have no official real-time support for people actually using fpc at the moment. I didn’t expect the real-time support to be abandoned when I started using Lazarus in 2014. What are people considerIng using fpc supposed to think of support being Just abandoned while people were still depending upon it? It was a horrible experience.
 
This whole thread has been about Trying to attract people to use fpc but not much focus on the needs of people already using it. I think there are a few issues such as reinstating resources we lost that should be addressed first.

I like your ideas of teams and would gladly volunteer but I don’t see anyone interested and that is a big problem in my opinion.

[Handoko]

I like your ideas of teams and would gladly volunteer but I don’t see anyone interested and that is a big problem in my opinion.

Yep, manpower issue.

Handoko Lazarus ide and fpc had good official real-time support in 2014 and It has none. I know there are still enough people who use pascal for there to be real-time support. Even if people could only volunteer for an hour a week it would be far better than NOTHING .

Definitely not me. I have a full time job, I can't sit in front of my computer waiting and providing support. That's also the reason I do not active in the IRC chat group. But I will check the forum and offer my help when I have time, not real-time. Again manpower issue, not sure why real-time support could happen in 2014, maybe there really were much users active in using and volunteering in Pascal community at that moment.

[silvercoder70]

@Handoko,

I like the ideas put forward re "team" and also cognisant of what @Martin_fr said. My channel is my channel, but certainly open to colabs in some form or another.

Like you, I have a F/T job.... I get it. You provide help when you can, and that is great!

@Joanna,

This whole thread has been about Trying. attract people to use fpc but not much focus on the needs of people already using it. I think there are a few issues such as reinstating resources we lost that should be addressed first.

The way support is handled today (vs previous years) is very different - having come from a commercial software environment. Heck, in some places you have to pay for email support.

As far as "resources" are concerned (otherwise)... I will also scan for texts on sites like https://www.packtpub.com to work out how to use some components that could be better documented. I might also look for videos on YouTube that are current. In years gone by, there would be magazine articles, on whatever your fav. language is.

Growing the community isn’t just about bringing in new users. It’s just as much about sharing accurate, up-to-date resources that people actually want to use, and building a sustainable space for everyone—whether they’re just starting out or have been around for years.

[Joanna]

Manpower issues is just a nice way of saying that we have lost a lot of people since 2014 and we are unable to provide what was once routine and normal for foss communities. What we used to have has just been tossed down the memory hole and many people pretend that it was never there at all 

Handoko I appreciate your situation and it’s unrealistic for only 2 people to bear the burden of providing real-time support. It should be a community effort with a sufficient number of people coming by to help when they can. Like it used to be.

Silvercoder your videos are great for people who have decided to use pascal but the problem is getting people to even try out fpc/Lazarus. If I was first thinking of switching to pascal and I wanted to meet some pascal programmers and there was no place to ask informal questions easily I would look for a more active community. I think it’s important to portray using pascal as being fun not just focusing on problems. Forums are helpful but definitely don’t make pascal seem fun most of the time.

Sometimes I wonder if people care at all. I’ve seen this same behavior in online gaming communities which no longer exist.

Some People have no time to help with things that would help the community but plenty of time to stop by my thread just to insult my coding style. It’s all a matter if priorities. Altruism is an exception selfishness is the norm.

[munair]

A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/

[Joanna]

Who creates that and where do they get their information?

[Handoko]

Some People have no time to help with things that would help the community but plenty of time to stop by my thread just to insult my coding style.

We live in the real world, things do not always go the way we want. Some will criticize you even you have done your best, just to insult you. Sometimes we give advice because you hope someone will do better next time. But they will think it as a negative criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, ignore it. But if really consider what they say, you often can learn something useful from it.

A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/

Glad to know about it.

[JanRoza]

I think that this forum provides enough support for anyone who needs it. Realtime support is just a dream tharmt will never come true.
Any question here is mostly answered within a day which should suite most users well.

[Joanna]

Real-time support was NOT a dream it was really helpful and more people were there than are ever logged in here.

Handoko that would be fine if someone creates a thread asking for advice about their coding style. Unsolicited insults are disrespectful as well as off topic.

[Martin_fr]

Manpower issues is just a nice way of saying that we have lost a lot of people since 2014 and we are unable to provide what was once routine and normal for foss communities.

No it is not. Just the available manpower is now otherwise bound (if actually ever it was where you say).

This may either be fluctuation. People come and go for many reasons. But for those gone others came, so that is normal.
Or it may be that a person moved their area of interest. Also happens everywhere.

Also what the hell to you define as "official support"?
There are no dedicated support workers of any kind. And never have been.

Support has always been voluntary. And for the most part by members of the community, rather than by those from the "teams". Simple because the amount of people in the community is magnitudes bigger than the size of the teams.
And that has worked well in the past, and for all I can say still works well.
But it has, does, and always will mean, that those asking for support will have to do it in the way that those providing it have chosen.

And that is the way (afaik) that it is in any FOSS project (with the exceptions of those having commercial backing).

Maybe the community has changed. Well most likely. Everything changes over time.

And as for the "real time": Chat and Forum are both as able to be real-time as the other.
If someone wanted to answer to forum message immediately, they can use email notify or other means to be aware of incoming posts. And all else is a matter of how quick they can type. But typing into the forum is not slower than the same in a chat.

But in both instances, its down to people having time to stare at their screen waiting for something to respond too. If people have better to do... Well then you get chats were people may be logged in, but take 5, 10 or 15 minutes before they reply.


But anyway. Point is, that is in no way a consequence of what the project itself does.

The project does not (nor ever has) dictated to the community how the community should or may interact.

The project may supply this forum, but that is one out of a great many forums for the project. The majority of the means to interact comes from the community.
And again, that has been this very way for a long long time.

So this is what the community does for the project and maybe today it can do more by the means it uses today.

Chat may (or may not / I have no data) once been more popular.... Well so have light themes for the IDE once been more popular (when CRT screens had just gone), and floating windows too (instead of docked). But those things change.

That change does not mean that the quantity or quality of the community decreases. Not at all.

[alpine]

Real-time support was NOT a dream it was really helpful and more people were there than are ever logged in here.

"Realtime" is a matter of definition. Many (most) times when I've wanted to answer someone's question on this forum, I find that someone has already done it, and many times - better than me. So the benefit of chat platforms in this case is greatly overestimated.