Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?

[Martin_fr]

the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

Strange, because as far as I can see it is increasing.

And just because "support" (as you call it) isn't tailored to you personal whim, does not mean it is lacking. Huge difference.

And replies on the forum can be given as fast as anyone can read and then type. That is as realtime as it gets.

[440bx]

All I get is indifference or hostility if I bring up the topic of pascal.

That makes some sense given the way you present some things.  For instance...

We all know that official real-time support is gone.

This forum provides support about as real time as most programmers would like support to be.  I don't want a "chat thing" which is what that sentence seems to be underhandedly peddling.

The compiler itself is thriving,

The compiler is being steadily developed but, I don't know that "thriving" is the right word to use for a compiler that hasn't seen an update in about 4 years.

Personally, I believe that more frequent formal releases that consist of mostly, if not entirely, of bug fixes would be helpful.

the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

I think just about anyone that used a "Turbo" version of Pascal has noticed that too.

Pascal enthusiasts who need real time support have been abandoned.

Abandoned ?  really ?... has anyone here abandoned you ?  I believe that if you ask a technical question, you'll get a reply shortly thereafter.

I’m only bringing this up because believe it or not many people don’t want to delve into projects where the future of support is uncertain. If I were an owner of a company and I wanted to choose a language to write an important application for the business, would it be prudent to choose a platform that for whatever reason is unable to maintain Official real-time support?

Official real time support ?... unless you work for a company that pays a pretty penny for priority support, you won't get anything that remotely resembles "real time support".  When you purchase a service contract, the best response time you can expect is usually within 4 hours and, that is pretty darn good, not to mention expensive.

I’m glad this forum exists but it could be even better if there were more people using pascal.

The number of people involved does help but, what really helps is the people's willingness to help and their level of knowledge.  Quantity doesn't imply quality.

As for the idea of pascal enthusiasts all over the place I haven’t come across very many who like pascal outside of this forum no matter how hard I try.

Like you, I don't think there are Pascal enthusiasts "all over the place" but, if you go to the right places, you'll find them.  Among those places are this forum and the Idera/Delphi forums.

[silvercoder70]

I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.

Documentation is important, it also serves (and will serve) those who use Pascal and Object Pascal. After all, not everyone has all the details related to the compiler, IDe or libraries (RTL, FCL, LCL) in mind. It depends on the frequency of use.

In addition, from time to time it is necessary to fill in the gaps in the documentation and improve its appearance. At home, some changes are also made every few years (painting the walls, repairs, rearranging the furniture, etc.). This is not about complaining, but about specific actions for the general benefit of the community.

Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.  If the information is not there or appears out of date then of course the users won't come. Part of my community is from youtube. And I have other ideas in that regard. Another part is this forum. But giving something a new coat of paint still takes time and or money.

[JD]

Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.

I agree with you here. The old websites of the Firebird and PostgreSQL databases had to be redesigned for this reason. Concerning the documentation, maybe moving it from the Wiki to a platform like Gitbook, readthedocs, Asciidoc etc will freshen it up.

[Thaddy]

I have been experimenting with a local .css a couple of years ago.
That is really the only thing necessary to obtain a more modern look, except for media content.
I happen to like the serene style it has now.
I am no designer, but you can do that through the developers options in most browsers. Feel free to write a new css.

[Fibonacci]

1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.

2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing

[Martin_fr]

1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.

Never really thought about it...

Partly added: https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org/lazarus/lazarus/-/commit/800b2cd836e974d20305fba3fad41d60ce016fc2
Within the same frame (e.g. NOT yet between normal colors and "user defined"), and only as long as the dialog stays open. (Tested on Windows)

Needs still to be made persistent, and between the different frames.

You may want to add a feature request for that.

Also I don't know if the Object inspector deals with that (should have its own set of custom colors). If not that would be a 2nd separate feature request.

2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing

While it would be nice to have something better than the wiki to share the results, this isn't going to go onto my list (sorry, time restraints)

[Handoko]

I've been in the forum for a long time. People popped up and said they wanted to offer help, to make Lazarus better. Some wanted to improve the documentation and wiki pages, some offered their modules that can be used for Lazarus to generate Android applications. Some were working on video tutorials. There were some discussions about improving the documentation and wiki. Some proof of concept tools had been created that could be used to generate Android applications. Several YouTube tutorials had been created. But then they stopped.

I could be wrong but I think if we can have several 'teams' we can contribute better for the Lazarus/Pascal community. Not limited to, but these are in my mind:

A team for improving the documentation and wiki
This is not an easy task, having a team of people working on it, will really ease it. They can discuss, communicate, share idea and tips, how and where to start.

A team for writing short demos
I believe with plenty of short demos, will make new users to learn Lazarus/Pascal easier. How to do xyz is often asked in the forum. Instead of give them explanations and links, it will be more helpful if we can supply them some demos to download and try. If we form a team, we can share tips how to write good demos, discuss and compile a list of demos we're going to work on.

A team for video tutorials
Finding video tutorials of certain topic is easy in other languages but not in Lazarus/Pascal. Video tutorials are very helpful when explaining GUI programming and IDE features.

A team for cosmetics improvements
Editor black themes, new splash screens, better quality icons, more modern websites, etc.

A team for greeting and helping newbies
Greeting newcomers is always a good thing to do.

Now back to what I said previously ... some efforts were made but then they stopped. I can't say for sure but I personally believe they grew tired working alone. By forming teams, we can motivate each others, share tips and split burdens. And we should make it clear for public (in sub forums or maybe a link), how to contact or post suggestions/requests to the teams.

If you agree with my idea, then we should talk about:
- What teams should be formed
- Is it any rules to refuse someone (troll) joining the team
- Does each team have a leader, if yes how to choose one

If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.

[Martin_fr]

If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.

Accepted / Rejected?  Even if some items may at some time need some form of it (and not all do need that), then that would not be at the beginning.

The acceptance is by "someone or some group starting to do". If you want a team, then acceptance simply means other joining it.

- Tasks like the wiki don't need approval, though the may get feedback.

- Its different for the website(s). There some limitations have previously be communicated. But even then, commitment comes before approval. I.e. unless someone has volunteered time and outlined tasks => there wont be much reaction (because otherwise the teams would rather often spend time on reviewing ideas for which there never was anyone to do them).

- Documentation works by submitting patches (start small / get feedback).

- putting info on social media, same as the wiki

...

[Handoko]

I’ve been asking for help with restoring the real-time support team since 2019!

I think to be real-time, is hard to achieved.

Lets say for example, if on average each volunteer is willing to spend 4 hours per day providing support. It will need at least 6 persons to be able to cover 24 hours. If you observe the questions asked in the forum, some of them are very advanced topics, only top skill members can provide the answers. I am not saying that is not possible, we now have a foundation. Maybe in the future, after the foundation collected enough money, they can allocate some of the money to pay for it.

The idea I suggested does not need to be real-time. For example if we form a team for greeting and helping newbies. While I am not sitting on my computer, maybe I am traveling on a taxi or waiting in a bank. I visit the forum using my phone and see a new forum member asking simple questions. I can notify my team's members so the can go online and provide help.

Eugene Loza ever contacted me. He said we could form a kind of team or group, so we can motivate and share ideas or working together. That actually was a good idea. Unfortunately that didn't happen because I was doing other things at that moment.

Do you know Delphi TeamA or B? Something like that but with a notable different, they were incentivized. If you are ever active in WordPress forum, you will know they have a 'team' of moderators that are monitoring and policing the forum very actively.

[Handoko]

I like your ideas of teams and would gladly volunteer but I don’t see anyone interested and that is a big problem in my opinion.

Yep, manpower issue.

Handoko Lazarus ide and fpc had good official real-time support in 2014 and It has none. I know there are still enough people who use pascal for there to be real-time support. Even if people could only volunteer for an hour a week it would be far better than NOTHING .

Definitely not me. I have a full time job, I can't sit in front of my computer waiting and providing support. That's also the reason I do not active in the IRC chat group. But I will check the forum and offer my help when I have time, not real-time. Again manpower issue, not sure why real-time support could happen in 2014, maybe there really were much users active in using and volunteering in Pascal community at that moment.

[silvercoder70]

@Handoko,

I like the ideas put forward re "team" and also cognisant of what @Martin_fr said. My channel is my channel, but certainly open to colabs in some form or another.

Like you, I have a F/T job.... I get it. You provide help when you can, and that is great!

@Joanna,

This whole thread has been about Trying. attract people to use fpc but not much focus on the needs of people already using it. I think there are a few issues such as reinstating resources we lost that should be addressed first.

The way support is handled today (vs previous years) is very different - having come from a commercial software environment. Heck, in some places you have to pay for email support.

As far as "resources" are concerned (otherwise)... I will also scan for texts on sites like https://www.packtpub.com to work out how to use some components that could be better documented. I might also look for videos on YouTube that are current. In years gone by, there would be magazine articles, on whatever your fav. language is.

Growing the community isn’t just about bringing in new users. It’s just as much about sharing accurate, up-to-date resources that people actually want to use, and building a sustainable space for everyone—whether they’re just starting out or have been around for years.

[munair]

A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/

[Handoko]

Some People have no time to help with things that would help the community but plenty of time to stop by my thread just to insult my coding style.

We live in the real world, things do not always go the way we want. Some will criticize you even you have done your best, just to insult you. Sometimes we give advice because you hope someone will do better next time. But they will think it as a negative criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, ignore it. But if really consider what they say, you often can learn something useful from it.

A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/

Glad to know about it.

[JanRoza]

I think that this forum provides enough support for anyone who needs it. Realtime support is just a dream tharmt will never come true.
Any question here is mostly answered within a day which should suite most users well.