Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?

[silvercoder70]

Perhaps (sometimes?) we can easily forget there are useful tools out there that are written with free pascal. In addition to the solpage mention,a few apps get a mention here (Scientific Pascal):

https://bsky.app/profile/scipastips.bsky.social

and might indicate that fpc/lazarus gets more use in the research area. But perhaps not what would be classed as a killer app.

And for my own benefit ...

@440bx – Many ideas here and your disassembler project sounds seriously ambitious, but also really intriguing.

@Thaddy – good catch on the Raspberry Pi detail. Lazarus and FPC have had Pi support for a long time, and that kind of correction helps set the record straight. Hope you mentioned it

@JD – thanks for the reminder about CudaText. With millions of downloads, it’s probably the most widely used Lazarus-based app out there — a great showcase for the platform.

If anyone’s working on similar tools or experiments, please share? I would also like to do a video with some devs using fpc down the track,

[VisualLab]

I don't think that killer applications written using FPC/Lazarus are that important, because that's what the end user usually comes into contact with. The vast majority of end users don't care what the program was created in. Ergonomics are important to the user. Nevertheless, I think that applications created using FPC/Lazarus should be documented. This will always, to some extent, increase the popularization of FPC/Lazarus.

However, considering that FPC and Lazarus are programming tools, the most effective way to popularize them would be:

• expanding and improving: compiler, debugger and IDE,
• expanding existing libraries and creating new ones,
• expanding and improving documentation regarding: FPC, Lazarus, libraries.

Point (1) time is being realized (slowly but steadily). Some fixes to the compiler (language pains) should be included. Some of them were mentioned by 440bx, such oddities as writable constants (but there are more). This should “be straightened out” in the language.

Point (2) is also (generally) realized. But there are fewer libraries compared to, for example, C or C++ (which is obvious - the number of people involved). And this point is one of the more important ones. This is well shown by the popularity of Python - the reason is libraries (even though it is basically the worst programming language, right next to JS). In any case, it seems to me that for most programmers it is probably easier to create libraries than to expand a compiler or debugger.

Point (3) is also very important. Much of the content in the documentation would need to be improved, supplemented and expanded. In addition, one central repository with documentation would be useful: FPC, Lazarus, libraries (scattering it across several different websites is inconvenient). In addition, many descriptions are incomplete (this has been mentioned many times on this forum). Also the look of these pages and the layout of the content (headers, links, color, size and font style, etc.) is quite archaic. It would be good to refresh this. But those who wanted to do it would have to have access to it.

The FPC and Lazarus website(s) could also use some refreshing. It doesn't always have to involve completely turning everything upside down. Just "a bit" is enough.

I have no major objections to the tutorials. They are quite decent. Besides, creating them is very time-consuming and demanding. But basic documentation of tools and libraries is necessary. Without it, it is difficult to work even for those who already know FPC/Lazarus.


I believe that the first step is to improve, streamline and expand the documentation, starting with the appearance and then moving on to the content (in stages). Yes, I know, it's a lot of work. But without it, the slow "downhill slide" will continue (which I don't think any of us want).

[Joanna]

I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.
The best thing thst could happen with pascal programming at this point would be to make a better community with the people who still use it and reinstate real-time support like there used to be.

An active thriving community will naturally attract more members. Nobody wants to jump aboard a sinking ship.

[Martin_fr]

The best thing thst could happen with pascal programming at this point would be to make a better community with the people who still use it and reinstate real-time support like there used to be.

Last I heard there are people who use similar real time media (just with a fancy modern alias). So it ain't dead. They just don't wont to play with everyone. Their choice.

Also, we have a great community, right here on this forum, on many other forums around the world, in other media, and real life local meeting groups.
Saying "make a better community" is an insult to any of them.

[Joanna]

The topic of this thread is how to get pascal to thrive which implies that the current situation is needing improvement ? The compiler itself is thriving, the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

We all know that official real-time support is gone. There are no good substitutes for people who need it. Pascal enthusiasts who need real time support have been abandoned. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are.

I’m only bringing this up because believe it or not many people don’t want to delve into projects where the future of support is uncertain. If I were an owner of a company and I wanted to choose a language to write an important application for the business, would it be prudent to choose a platform that for whatever reason is unable to maintain Official real-time support? It doesn’t inspire confidence no matter how good your compiler is.

I’m glad this forum exists but it could be even better if there were more people using pascal.

As for the idea of pascal enthusiasts all over the place I haven’t come across very many who like pascal outside of this forum no matter how hard I try. All I get is indifference or hostility if I bring up the topic of pascal.

[VisualLab]

I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.

Documentation is important, it also serves (and will serve) those who use Pascal and Object Pascal. After all, not everyone has all the details related to the compiler, IDE or libraries (RTL, FCL, LCL) in mind. It depends on the frequency of use.

In addition, from time to time it is necessary to fill in the gaps in the documentation and improve its appearance. At home, some changes are also made every few years (painting the walls, repairs, rearranging the furniture, etc.). This is not about complaining, but about specific actions for the general benefit of the community.

[Martin_fr]

the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

Strange, because as far as I can see it is increasing.

And just because "support" (as you call it) isn't tailored to you personal whim, does not mean it is lacking. Huge difference.

And replies on the forum can be given as fast as anyone can read and then type. That is as realtime as it gets.

[440bx]

All I get is indifference or hostility if I bring up the topic of pascal.

That makes some sense given the way you present some things.  For instance...

We all know that official real-time support is gone.

This forum provides support about as real time as most programmers would like support to be.  I don't want a "chat thing" which is what that sentence seems to be underhandedly peddling.

The compiler itself is thriving,

The compiler is being steadily developed but, I don't know that "thriving" is the right word to use for a compiler that hasn't seen an update in about 4 years.

Personally, I believe that more frequent formal releases that consist of mostly, if not entirely, of bug fixes would be helpful.

the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

I think just about anyone that used a "Turbo" version of Pascal has noticed that too.

Pascal enthusiasts who need real time support have been abandoned.

Abandoned ?  really ?... has anyone here abandoned you ?  I believe that if you ask a technical question, you'll get a reply shortly thereafter.

I’m only bringing this up because believe it or not many people don’t want to delve into projects where the future of support is uncertain. If I were an owner of a company and I wanted to choose a language to write an important application for the business, would it be prudent to choose a platform that for whatever reason is unable to maintain Official real-time support?

Official real time support ?... unless you work for a company that pays a pretty penny for priority support, you won't get anything that remotely resembles "real time support".  When you purchase a service contract, the best response time you can expect is usually within 4 hours and, that is pretty darn good, not to mention expensive.

I’m glad this forum exists but it could be even better if there were more people using pascal.

The number of people involved does help but, what really helps is the people's willingness to help and their level of knowledge.  Quantity doesn't imply quality.

As for the idea of pascal enthusiasts all over the place I haven’t come across very many who like pascal outside of this forum no matter how hard I try.

Like you, I don't think there are Pascal enthusiasts "all over the place" but, if you go to the right places, you'll find them.  Among those places are this forum and the Idera/Delphi forums.

[Joanna]

440bx I’m not sure why the concept of real time support confuses you so much.

When I first started using Lazarus around 2014 there was real-time support for people who needed help. That real time support was abandoned by the people running this project which caused quite a few problems. I believe that the project could benefit by reinstating the real-time support as it was before. There are people who need it and it would improve the image of the fpc project and maybe encourage more people to at least try it out.

[silvercoder70]

I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.

Documentation is important, it also serves (and will serve) those who use Pascal and Object Pascal. After all, not everyone has all the details related to the compiler, IDe or libraries (RTL, FCL, LCL) in mind. It depends on the frequency of use.

In addition, from time to time it is necessary to fill in the gaps in the documentation and improve its appearance. At home, some changes are also made every few years (painting the walls, repairs, rearranging the furniture, etc.). This is not about complaining, but about specific actions for the general benefit of the community.

Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.  If the information is not there or appears out of date then of course the users won't come. Part of my community is from youtube. And I have other ideas in that regard. Another part is this forum. But giving something a new coat of paint still takes time and or money.

[JD]

Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.

I agree with you here. The old websites of the Firebird and PostgreSQL databases had to be redesigned for this reason. Concerning the documentation, maybe moving it from the Wiki to a platform like Gitbook, readthedocs, Asciidoc etc will freshen it up.

[Joanna]

Redoing the forums which works fine the way it is will not make more people Use pascal. Most of the visitors here are bots/webcrawlers not humans shopping for a new programming language.

There is already a wiki that people are allowed to contribute to if they wish. Documentation is great but it cannot cover everything and as software evolves the documentation can become out of date.

In any case wiki style documentation is no substitute for a community of knowledgeable people who want to help. The true documentation is found by searching these forums for topics already solved or asking on your own thread.

[Thaddy]

I have been experimenting with a local .css a couple of years ago.
That is really the only thing necessary to obtain a more modern look, except for media content.
I happen to like the serene style it has now.
I am no designer, but you can do that through the developers options in most browsers. Feel free to write a new css.

[Fibonacci]

1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.

2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing

[Martin_fr]

1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.

Never really thought about it...

Partly added: https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org/lazarus/lazarus/-/commit/800b2cd836e974d20305fba3fad41d60ce016fc2
Within the same frame (e.g. NOT yet between normal colors and "user defined"), and only as long as the dialog stays open. (Tested on Windows)

Needs still to be made persistent, and between the different frames.

You may want to add a feature request for that.

Also I don't know if the Object inspector deals with that (should have its own set of custom colors). If not that would be a 2nd separate feature request.

2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing

While it would be nice to have something better than the wiki to share the results, this isn't going to go onto my list (sorry, time restraints)