Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?

[Lenny33]

Everyone wants to be the next Albert Einstein... while completely forgetting that Einstein basically pilfered numerous other people's work without giving them credit (borderline plagiarism) ...

It's true. Although when I usually tell this truth about Einstein, all I get is a horrible squeal in response. So hang in there 

Numerous people tend to be tribal fanboys and bandwagon hoppers. I have no use whatsoever for C#, yet its fanboys kept telling me for years that I was stupid for not switching to it.

It's not all that clear-cut. And for a while ~15 yeas ago I thought like you.
But the truth is that in fact C# first stole many ideas from ObjectPascal (obviously Anders Hejlsberg brought them there).
But the sad truth is that since ~2009 almost all innovations in Delphi/FPC are now stolen from C#, but with great delay.
And some things in Delphi/Lazarus work many times less conveniently (especially debugging).
And some extremely handy things (like f.ex. LINQ to Objects) are unlikely to ever appear.
And despite the niches of the languages are similar, MS has obviosly more money for 1000+1 libraries for all type of activity.
So it's very, very tempting out there 

What language best suits my particular needs and what language do I feel most suited to/comfortable with?...

I say it once again - this is only true when you are working alone or in the company of like-minded people.
But the worst thing for a programming language is the lack of interest in it among the younger generation.
We even offered training to support one project. But young people, with few exceptions, do not want to mess with Pascal.
And they are not stupid. They see very clearly the current trends in programming and see that they will not be able to find a place for this experience later.
Nowadays it is very hard to find a promising, interesting and well-paid job in ObjectPascal (Delphi).
So they even do not wanna waste a time.

[Joanna]

To summarize this discussion, young people with mostly absent Working parents care more about jumping on the dead end rat race treadmill than intellectual pursuits or starting a family.
The extinction of people who don’t have creating families as their number one priority is in itself a form of natural selection.

[Lenny33]

To summarize this discussion...

You're being a little too florid.
Just watch the old movie Idiocracy (2006). It's all told in a straight but humorous way

[Joanna]

Florid ? Wow you just taught me a new word. That doesn’t happen very often 
I was actually thinking of that movie but I didn’t want to go so far as to insult the people who are still sensible enough to reproduce.

You have brought up some interesting points , there does indeed seem to be a parallel between the decline in pascal users with the decline of interest in having children. In a sense creating a pascal project is much like  creating a child. It’s not done for profit. It grows as you nurture it.

It’s rather disappointing that people cannot understand that having to work full time is not liberation it is closer to enslavement. It’s justifiable if you must do it to support your family of course but for many people their career has become their main purpose in life along with tapping on screens 

[VisualLab]

There is no place for any kind of faith in exact sciences, natural sciences, or technical fields. Only knowledge in terms of causes and effects matters. Either it is known how something works or it does not. And if you have doubts whether evolution works (and whether it is true), there are books and biologists who will explain it to you.

I already gave you an example about the strong doubts about the Big Bang in connection with some new data in cosmology. But a lot of people still believe it.
In the Middle Ages, people believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
You believe in some "blind evolution" even though many facts say it doesn't work that way. Random mutations do not produce new species. Mutations cannot explain the appearance of fundamentally new organs (such as eyes, for example).
Random mutations sometimes only slightly help in the adaptation of already established species, but no significant jump was recorded. But it is much more common for mutations to lead to death (cancer, for example).
Transitional forms have not yet been found. Experiments on the self-generation of life have failed. Even the probability of self-generation of an organism (the most primitive bacterium) with the programmed possibility of stable reproduction (self-copying) is purely mathematically so small as to be practically impossible.

We obviously don't understand something. But if you still belive in "blind evolution". Then it is your personal faith. And I have no against about your faith.
I respect your right to believe in something. But I prefer to be agnostic on this and many other such questions.

By the way, I suggest you watch the 9th episode of the 6th season of the "Futurama" animated TV-series - "A Clockwork Origin".
There this topic was dealt with in a very good humor.

And let's finish this offtopic.
We will not help to pull Pascal out of the pit with this.

(I'm not going to respond any further on this topic.)

No. You unnecessarily attribute to me faith in the processes taking place in the environment. It is not a matter of faith. It is a matter of knowledge about how this process takes place. The fact that you do not know how evolution works (what mutations in the genetic code consist of, how these mutations affect cells, tissues and organs, etc.) does not mean that others do not understand it. It is only your (erroneous) belief (i.e. faith) that others believe in something. Understanding the process of evolution in biology required many decades of work by biologists, chemists and also physicists. Just as it took many decades for scientists and engineers to achieve the current development of IT (and how many twists and turns and dead ends there were).

[JanRoza]

Oh boy, do you serve tea with this discussion.
It's a rather cosy chat, but unfortunately it has no relation anymore with either FPC or Lazarus.
Can we please get back on topic. 

[VisualLab]

But if interfaces for brain implants are written again in C++ or Java, we with our Pascal again risk being left behind. (Just kidding  )

(But let's finish this off-topic. Do you agree?)

The software for implants (of all kinds) will be written in Rust. C++ (despite the efficiency of machine code) is too archaic, dangerous and expensive to develop. Fortunately, the committee jealously watches over it to remain as it is. On the other hand, Java (as well as C#) is not suitable because of the VM and garbage collector. Perhaps, on the wave of returning to security, efficiency (compiler) and ease/convenience (ergonomy) of development, Pascal will also revive a bit

Many companies from the IT sector or open source projects are chained to C++ because of the huge amount of old code. Let's not kid ourselves, this is the main reason. Writing all these libraries from scratch is a huge cost (time, money, etc.). That's why C and C++ are still used. And "new" solutions like C#, Java or Python, JS are just prostheses. Yes, they are easier to program in than C++, but they do not have many important advantages of C++ (as well as Object Pascal). This is a compromise. Either you get efficiency at the price of a confusing language and rather annoying tools. Or you get programming convenience at the price of worse efficiency (CPU, RAM). In turn, Object Pascal is definitely more convenient to use than C++, it does not require jumping through additional hoops (VM, interpreters, platform-specific libraries), but in turn it does not have as many libraries. There are no miraculous solutions.

To summarize this discussion...

You're being a little too florid.
Just watch the old movie Idiocracy (2006). It's all told in a straight but humorous way

I suspect that no one would make such a film now. Or the film would be blocked as so-called "hateful". Because it "attacks neurodiversity", various so-called "minorities", that it is not "inclusive", etc., moronic (red) gibberish. On the other hand, if we start looking at the history of humanity, such behavior of people (societies) has happened cyclically. Then slowly, with difficulty, it bounced back from the bottom until the next cycle. It is not without reason that there is a lapidary statement that:

"Strong people create good times. Good times create weak people. Weak people create difficult times. Hard times create strong people".

One could say that we are unlucky to live in the period of this "down" (i.e. when "weak people create difficult times").

This is clearly visible in IT. The huge popularity of various strange "inventions" such as Python, JavaScript (Electron, node.js). But the beginnings were earlier, when Java appeared and then C#. The belief (sic!) that another additional (bloated) layer in the operating system is a good idea. Each subsequent solution was worse in terms of performance, energy consumption, etc. Then it only accelerated. Only some "technological wall" is able to turn people away from this mindless path.

[Lenny33]

No. You unnecessarily attribute to me faith...

Strange, you wrote before you didn't graduate from any university, but you fight so hard for evolution.
My wife, for example, is a medical doctor with a university degree, but for some reason she (and some of her other colleagues) is not a fanatic about classical evolutionary ideas either.
And I have studied physics seriously and that is why I doubt many official modern approaches in physics.

But you don't. By the way, religious fanatics do similar things. They never doubt 
Again I won't ruin your faith. Believe in your “blind evolution” or whatever to your heart's content
I wish you all the best.
(It is true last post about this theme from my side)

[Joanna]

Visual lab I have a different interpretation of Idiocracy.
The film is kind of a psyop. They declare that since smart people decided not to have children look what we’ve got. The whole notion is preposterous. Why would intelligent people who know that they are not immortal decide that children are not important? Do they not know the basics of biology or are they so selfish that they don’t want the responsibility of waste of time? This is hardly smart.

The message of movie is that having children is for idiots. As flawed as the idiots were at least they were alive. The same could not be said for the “smart” people who were extinct.

[Lenny33]

On the other hand, Java (as well as C#) is not suitable because of the VM and garbage collector.

Java is used everywhere precisely because of its safety and because of the availability of a garbage collector.
Space projects (satellites and robots) are already running in Java. Java works well in embedded solutions. It is right because of its great safety and garbage collector.

But except for legacy projects and hobby crafts you can hear about Pascal only in some specific scientific circles. And that is only probably because the professors are old and used to Fortran and Pascal in their youth.

Therefore, Java has a much better chance then Pascal of making it into a language for implant development, though only at the top level of the technology stack.
And at the bottom level of that stack, I think there will be the same C (without the pluses) or some other modern so-called “cross-assembler”

For now, Pascal has a better chance of repeating COBOL's fate. But this means that you still have enough to sit on support until retirement if you have a popular commercial project.

[silvercoder70]

On popularity ... if the TIOBE top 10 is anything to go by then if Delphi and FPC are at #9, that is OK. (If I use C, Python and Pascal, how does that work in the stats – rhetorical question!)

Languages like Kotlin, Ruby and Swift are well out of the top 10 and these all came much later than Pascal did.

Things always look greener on the other side. But longevity and resilience should count for something. You don’t get to stick around for decades without doing something right.

Pascal may not be trendy at the moment, but it's stable, mature, and still evolving?

[duralast]

This is pathetic. Faith, psyops, and your spouse's career are in the discussion. And the admins are letting this continue.

Anyway, since this forum appears to be about whatever topic comes to mind... when making a purchase online, or even in a store, some places accept Diners Card. I've never seen one. I have a Mastercard, Visa, and Discover. But my Visa is a debit card. A Discover is still not as universal as Mastercard and Visa. Still. After all this time. I've had offers for an American Express but never felt the need to have one. But a Diners Card seems so 1950s. One would think it only able to be used at a restaurant. Anyone else have a Diners Card?

And my credit score dropped to a 797 when it was over 800 for more than two years. They say what is hurting it is not having a good mix of credit. That didn't seem to hurt it for over two years, and now it is a problem? Am I supposed to buy a new car or take out a HELOC just to take out loans? My home is paid for.

NASA engineers also successfully reactivated the thrusters on Voyager I. It is 15.5 billion miles away.

If you need to save any leftover food, CNN tested a number of food sealers, and their overall pick is the Anova Culinary Vacuum Sealer. I have an Amova grill I bought online from Amazon, and I really like it. I use it for hamburgers and Steak-ums. It's been a while since I've grilled with it though. My sister and her family farm, and she sends me home meals when I go there. I was there a month ago, so I have been eating what she sent home with me, so haven't needed to grill up any frozen hamburgers. Although I do have some frozen ground beef in the freezer, in addition to the frozen hamburgers.

And what is the best one-pot meal? Macaroni and cheese, chili, creamy skillet chicken, pot roast, fish chowder? Or does someone have something else they prefer? Do you have a favorite recipe to share?

[Lenny33]

This is pathetic. Faith, psyops, and your spouse's career are in the discussion. And the admins are letting this continue.

If you read the thread carefully, the offtopic threads were branching off logically from this Pascal discussion thread. They just went too far.

But can you say something in defense of Pascal (FPC) in modern new commercial projects (hobby projects and support of the legacy we do not consider)?
Why is it that almost nobody except enthusiastic ones and old peolple with legacy-projects want to get involved with Delphi / FPC anymore ?

Let's go the same way for the 1000+1 time as on similar forums about Pascal future.
Maybe then you'll want to talk about something else too

[Nitorami]

I am working for a big company and we are using Dewesoft data acqusition and digital signal processing systems. Their software seem to be written in Delphi (although of course they will use external libraries for the signal processing and such). The systems are very fast, versatile and powerful; while not targeting the mass consumer, they have gained quite a market segment in the industry. So I am not THAT pessimistic.

[Joanna]

I don’t know why that tiobe index is so important. How can they know who is using pascal? There are better ways to go about it. How about looking at  how many people come here and actually participate? 17 online at moment. Not very many considering how many accounts there are.
The unofficial Real-time support has about 60 online but most don’t talk much so hard to know if they use pascal. I don’t really trust the fpc download statistics it could be bots doing it. I use pascal because I prefer to be good at just one language and nobody can order me to use others. Pascal does everything I need it to and if there are no libraries I will make them myself instead of whining