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Author Topic: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?  (Read 34878 times)

PascalDragon

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #180 on: May 13, 2025, 09:43:29 pm »
Some examples that C# can't do: In-kernel modules. Bare metal code. Amiga applications.
In-kernel modules sane programmers write in C (even without ++) or even assembly language but not Pascal.
Bare metal code - I can agree, but you can use C libraries for that too.
Amiga applications?!! Who needs that for serious business in the year 2025? You might as well remember the ancient prehistoric ZX-Spectrum  :D

You were the one who asked what's possible with FPC/Lazarus, but not in C#. It does not matter whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's nevertheless possible.

And guess what? The LCL supports the Amiga GUI library. And FPC supports the ZX-Spectrum. ;)

Lenny33

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #181 on: May 13, 2025, 11:22:03 pm »
You didn't understand. Religion has nothing to do with what I wrote. There is also no need to invoke beings smarter than humans, who may or may not exist somewhere in deep space. It's about the scope and capabilities of humans and animals.
I can say that it's you who doesn't understand.
First, religion or faith has everything to do with it.
If you believe in some kind of “blind evolution” (that's your definition) then that's exactly what you believe in.
Because at least the theory of evolution in its classical form is still unproven.
But if you believe in it, then you yourself and all the products of your life (including our beloved Pascal) are also products of “blind evolution”.
And then race to develop more powerful and CPU/Memory-greedy applications is also a part of blind evolutionary mechanism.
What's not logical here? Everything is logical.
It's just that somehow in this scheme of yours you think you're special. No, you don't.
You just won the race in “blind evolution” and got sick with pride (arrogance).

And what you say about humans not only obeying instincts is even easier to explain.
Humans are social animals (like ants are social insects) and cannot survive alone without society.
Therefore, people are forced to obey the general rules of coexistence, and not only their personal wild instincts.
Insects are just more primitive and just so programmed by “blind evolution” originally.

But if tomorrow it turns out that the creationists are right, only then can you claim that you were indeed right from the begining designed in a special way to be different from animals.

Let's finish with this offtopic.
We won't change the fact that tomorrow programs will be even more demanding on memory and CPU and nobody will care about it anyway.
And back to the topic - the fact that Lazarus programs are less demanding on memory will not attract anyone except those who are involved in embedded solutions for controllers.

Well. As long as Delphi and Lazarus are available, I use them (but not only these tools). What happens next, we'll see.
That's the position with which any technology should and can be used. But only if you yourself determine what technology to use and do not depend on other people.
I also use Lazarus for certain tasks (I already wrote for which ones).
But if I had an order to create a corporate application from scratch, I would hardly choose Lazarus or Delphi as the main development tool. I would even have a hard time finding an employee.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2025, 11:26:55 pm by Lenny33 »

Lenny33

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #182 on: May 13, 2025, 11:52:06 pm »
And guess what? The LCL supports the Amiga GUI library. And FPC supports the ZX-Spectrum. ;)
So where are wrong the opponents of “Joanna from IRC” who say that Lazarus is only for old people?
They are right then.
Then Lazarus is a toy for nostalgic for Pascal and ZX-Spectrum retirees who are bored on retirement and therefore write Pascal programs for a rusty ZX-Spectrum while listening to Boney M / Led Zeppelin / Frank Sinatra / ...  music on a tape recorder.
 :D
« Last Edit: May 14, 2025, 12:20:52 am by Lenny33 »

Lenny33

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #183 on: May 14, 2025, 12:05:00 am »
If Windows and Linux were written in Pascal there would be plenty of Pascal programmers around.
BTW some interesting attempts to create an OS or something similar to an OS on FPC:
Toro Kernel
fp-rtos
Ultibo


As for Ultibo I even interested to try it for my Raspberry Pi



JanRoza

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #184 on: May 14, 2025, 12:06:39 am »
It would be nice if everyone would stay on topic and not insult each other or tell all kind of conspiracy theories.
Then this topic may become interesting to read again.  >:(
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munair

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #185 on: May 14, 2025, 12:13:31 am »
I think there are os  written in pascal I’m not sure how good they are.

https://wiki.freepascal.org/Operating_Systems_written_in_FPC

The first MAC OS was also partially written in Pascal along with 68k assembler.
It's only logical.

Lenny33

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #186 on: May 14, 2025, 12:34:50 am »
You must not like pascal very much if you would pass up an opportunity to support fpc and hire pascal programmers {even if you need to train them}
I'm being pragmatic about this.
Of course it was much easier for me to translate an old project from Delphi to Lazarus to make it cross-platform than to rewrite it from scratch in C++ Qt or try to do something in .NET Core and very crude Avalonia.
But my other newer project is on .NET Core and Blazor.
And among other things, I still using Lazarus in some backend. Although no one else understand it but me.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2025, 12:40:10 am by Lenny33 »

JD

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #187 on: May 14, 2025, 08:53:55 am »
I believe that there is a way to do web apps using pascal, if not there should be.

Yes. Here are two frameworks from some of our forum members from Brazil  :D

D2Bridge Framework https://www.d2bridge.com.br/

Brook Framework https://risoflora.github.io/brookframework/, https://github.com/risoflora/brookframework

And another one from a Pascal user somewhere out there:

Fano Framework https://fanoframework.github.io/
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Thaddy

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #188 on: May 14, 2025, 09:03:44 am »
Why did you forget pas2js, wasm/wasi? The default distribution contains everything you need to write web apps. Main/trunk is even better at it.
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marcov

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #189 on: May 14, 2025, 10:00:45 am »
Why did you forget pas2js, wasm/wasi? The default distribution contains everything you need to write web apps. Main/trunk is even better at it.

Because they are client side, and a totally different approach to traditional web usage.

Thaddy

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #190 on: May 14, 2025, 10:12:26 am »
pas2js is definitely not client side only (node.js)
There is also the small matter of how yo interpret web apps.
I have been running Pascal driven web servers for IONS as you well know.
Well over 30 years.
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JD

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #191 on: May 14, 2025, 10:17:54 am »
Why did you forget pas2js, wasm/wasi? The default distribution contains everything you need to write web apps. Main/trunk is even better at it.

Thanks for the reminder  :D
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marcov

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2025, 10:42:46 am »
pas2js is definitely not client side only (node.js)

I assume you could run node.js on the server too, but I don't know if that really is a thing.

Quote
There is also the small matter of how yo interpret web apps.

I'm a bit conservative there. Running apps in local webservers or javascript applications are IMHO not really web apps. I.o.w there is more to a web app than web technology alone, and that is the web, aka internet in some client-server capacity. 

Rule of thumb, if the same app in a native language is not a webapp, then neither is the javascript one. By that definition server side node.js would qualify, client side not.

But this is all just gut feelings.

Quote
I have been running Pascal driven web servers for IONS as you well know.
Well over 30 years.

My first FPC cgi (for xshttpd) was in 1998-2000, it implemented a web counter. I actually ported FPC to FreeBSD for it :)

I also had Delphi application using an indy webserver, and a more sizable one managed by a team using Webhub.


Fibonacci

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2025, 10:54:30 am »
pas2js is definitely not client side only (node.js)

I assume you could run node.js on the server too, but I don't know if that really is a thing.

"too"? Node.js was created for running on servers, its not just "a thing", its the MAIN thing Node.js was made for

VisualLab

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #194 on: May 14, 2025, 11:47:02 am »
You didn't understand. Religion has nothing to do with what I wrote. There is also no need to invoke beings smarter than humans, who may or may not exist somewhere in deep space. It's about the scope and capabilities of humans and animals.
I can say that it's you who doesn't understand.
First, religion or faith has everything to do with it.
If you believe in some kind of “blind evolution” (that's your definition) then that's exactly what you believe in.
Because at least the theory of evolution in its classical form is still unproven.
But if you believe in it, then you yourself and all the products of your life (including our beloved Pascal) are also products of “blind evolution”.

There is no place for any kind of faith in exact sciences, natural sciences, or technical fields. Only knowledge in terms of causes and effects matters. Either it is known how something works or it does not.

And if you have doubts whether evolution works (and whether it is true), there are books and biologists who will explain it to you.

 

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