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Author Topic: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?  (Read 20942 times)

marcov

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #195 on: May 14, 2025, 01:15:37 pm »
For a woman's body in general, this is sometimes catastrophic. All doctors say that the biological time for a woman to conceive a healthy child is before the age of 25. What kind of study or career can she have then? Especially if she wants to have time to find a good husband and give birth to more than one child before 25.

This quote shows exactly the problem with the reasoning. You paint a very modern scheme, but judge it by antiquated social structures, and not even from the kind of societies that primitive humans would have had. Pair bonding is not necessarily as strong in hunter gatherer communities, if only that for a long time (on evolutionary scales) the relation between sex and delivering a child 9 months later was not as clear.

And anyway, you could solve this by implementing decent childcare and a living wage for graduate students (for single or both partners regardless of sex) right now for a lot less than all the futuristic nonsense.

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Alexander the Great died at the age of ~32, having already conquered a large number of ancient states.
Jesus Christ died at the age of ~33, having become wise enough to change history for the next 2000 years and more.

Alexander's died of illness, Jesus Christ was not a natural death, moreover both are not related to hunter-gather societies.

You missed my favourite,  Abraham died at the blessed age of 50. Nowadays that would be considered cursed.

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Anthropologists say that the human body in general is originally designed for an maximum 40 years.

"designed"? You mean evolved?

Anyway. I'm no anthropologist nor genetics expert, but got a bit of biology and genetics as part of my chemistry studies.

Some parts of the body start to reproduce more slowly with middle age, but that doesn't mean that that middle age period is a hard maximum. IIRC the anthropologist view was that elders in social structures can help their offspring with their (first?) children, and function as longer memory for the tribe (e.g. when migrating). This has been shown to be the case in great apes, while starting to lower the metabolism eases drain on resources for the group/tribe.

Also, that doesn't mean that those human matriarchs(*) would no longer be able to reproduce at that age. In a natural (hunter-gatherer)state, women are pregnant a lot, and thus ovulate less, and thus keep on ovulating to a later age, typically beyond 40. Note that more pregnancies does not necessarily mean more children since child mortality is high.

(*) Most literature uses females as examples, but don't talk about males. I don't know if it is assumed that females take a bigger part in their children's first child delivery, or for other reasons.

And many of those issues can be mitigated by medicine/dentistry. A more hard limit is parts that don't replace at all, like most nerve cells including the brain and some glands.  That limit is more 75-100 depending on the individual's genetics.

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It was rare to live past 30. Either tribal warfare, or disease, or being killed by an animal while hunting, and so on.

Still is.  Knowledge is based on old testimonies from both (mostly Western, sometimes Arab or Chinese authors,  and  directly from the "native" side), combined with current experiences of hunter gatherers in the Amazon to root out old biases and oversights.

Though I'd guess the average age of natural death usually a bit higher than 30. This because the non natural causes of death depend on region and lifestyle it allows. Not all tribes are in regions where humans majorly compete for resources, nor do they all hunt big game. Actually native tribes are quite good in managing hunting risks, my favourite there is African tribes (iirc Khoisan) using exhaustion hunt that is a lot more work, but probably they still do because it is safer. At the same time it leverages an human trait that is often considered a detail (being fairly hairless and the consequences that that has for sweating).

Fire and the corresponding cooking of food,  which decrease the risk of intestinal parasites was probably also an factor that is hard to overestimate (150ka, Eastern Africa).

Disease is always a risk, as 2020 has shown, but also has a strong correlation to the inter-human contact factor, and potentially the levels vary between early civilisations with denser population and contacts while  for relatively isolated hunter-gatherers tribes it is lower.

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And this is how our ancestors lived for hundreds of centuries. An indirect confirmation of this is teeth which in many people begin to seriously deteriorate after 40 years even if they are well cared for.

If the average age can be raised to 75 and beyond, then I wonder what you define as "serious"

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And women can and physiologically should give birth right from the age of 13-14. What kind of long study can there be?

That ability is not fixed and can vary by individual by several years, and it is also not fixed in that it depends on adequate (amount and also quality) food. Primitive tribes possibly always had growth limitations due to dry or cold seasons, and first menses correlates with that.  The fact that women stop growing around 15-17 years (even with adequate food) makes that a much more logical age than first menses.

Moreover early pregnancy increases the risk for women (without modern delivery methods) as the pelvic bone structure keeps widening after puberty, decreasing the risk of pregnancy complications. I only saw that as remark, without much info which age would be safe(r), but maybe your ideal age of for childbirth of 25 (or at least the reason why it is not as young as possible)  is due to this reason. 

Besides, keep in mind that because something in the old times this was a problem causing evolution, this is not really a hard decree that it should be now too. Evolution is governed by bottlenecks, not averages.

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We can change this either genetically (live ~300 years) or we can integrate learning directly into the brain via implants.
And I suspect that implants will appear sooner than genetic longevity.

Raising the average age way above 80 will be hard and require technology that is the realm of SF due to the brain cells not replicating. Any claims about it should be considered with extreme scepticism.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2025, 03:29:54 pm by marcov »

munair

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #196 on: May 14, 2025, 01:46:34 pm »
Is this still about Pascal? I know it's still alive after 50+ years, but that's a different kind of evolution.
It's only logical.

Fred vS

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #197 on: May 14, 2025, 02:58:31 pm »
In a natural (hunter-gatherer)state, women are pregnant a lot, and thus ovulate less, so their ovaries produces eggs to a later age, typically beyond 40.

Ha? I was told that the ovaries don't produce new eggs after birth. Women are born with a fixed number of eggs, which decreases over time. Ovulating less often may preserve some eggs, but it doesn't extend egg production beyond 40.

But I was probably lied to.
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marcov

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #198 on: May 14, 2025, 03:28:39 pm »
Ha? I was told that the ovaries don't produce new eggs after birth. Women are born with a fixed number of eggs, which decreases over time. Ovulating less often may preserve some eggs, but it doesn't extend egg production beyond 40.

But I was probably lied to.

No that is correct, and that is the reason why the number is finite. But if a woman is pregnant, no ovulation happens, so the number lasts longer. My "producing" in that sentence should be read as ovulating, not actually making the eggs, sorry for the confusion.

alpine

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #199 on: May 14, 2025, 04:11:43 pm »
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
—HAL 9000

duralast

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #200 on: May 14, 2025, 04:13:20 pm »
How does a topic on how to make a programming language more popular end up with a discussion on ovaries?

Apparently, the way to attract users of the language is to diverge from topics in a forum for said language to biology or whatever else happens to be of interest. This is the spark that was needed.

Stack Overflow would have shut down this long before it got to pregnancy and ovaries.

JanRoza

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #201 on: May 14, 2025, 04:19:56 pm »
I fully agree with duralast.
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JD

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #202 on: May 14, 2025, 05:06:42 pm »
How does a topic on how to make a programming language more popular end up with a discussion on ovaries?

Apparently, the way to attract users of the language is to diverge from topics in a forum for said language to biology or whatever else happens to be of interest. This is the spark that was needed.

Stack Overflow would have shut down this long before it got to pregnancy and ovaries.

 :D :D :D You hit the nail on the head. Let's go back to Lazarus/FPC please.  :D
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LV

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #203 on: May 14, 2025, 06:04:36 pm »
Apparently, the way to attract users of the language is to diverge from topics in a forum for said language to biology or whatever else happens to be of interest. This is the spark that was needed.

My little daughter asks me why I am so cheerful. I answer that I read posts on the Pascal programming language forum. She then says she also wants to learn such a cheerful programming language.  :D


GypsyPrince

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #204 on: May 14, 2025, 06:41:15 pm »
Every time I see a question about why this or that language (or this or that technology) isn't more popular, a related but different question pops into my head:
- Do people create new technologies (or programming languages) as a means to progress along by establishing a new or better solution to an existing problem? Or, do people create new technologies simply for the sake of creating new technologies?  Or, do people create new technologies in hopes of being the ones to drive the market and, thereby, become rich and famous by doing so - and in the process have to create a non-existent problem to fit the new solution so that gullible people will buy it?
 
Everyone wants to be the next Albert Einstein... while completely forgetting that Einstein basically pilfered numerous other people's work without giving them credit (borderline plagiarism) and had to enlist both his former college roommate and his wife to do most of his math for him. Hence, numerous people become the "face" of technologies, gaining celebrity and wealth, while other people do the actual work.
- Steve Jobs became rich and famous off the back of Steve Wozniak.
- Bill Gates became rich and famous off the back of Paul Allen.
- Thomas Edison became rich and famous off the backs of Nikola Tesla, Louis Lumiere, Joseph Swan and numerous others.
- Elon Musk became rich and famous off the backs of... everyone but himself.
 
My seemingly useless tangent is for making a point: when you ask a question like why isn't a particular programming language or environment as popular as others, the only factual answer one can give is that it always boils down to an amalgamation of numerous factors, as no single factor can ever really answer the question.
 
1.) People create new useless junk for the sake of create new useless technologies and the hoards of sheepish consumers jump on the bandwagon for no apparent reason.
2.) People create new technologies for the genuine purpose of being either the 1st or a better solution to an existing problem, and the hoards of sheepish consumers jump on the bandwagon for no apparent reason or because they find it useful.
3.) People tend to work long hours and spend their time only learning/using the technologies they will mostly likely require for getting a paycheck (this is a big one).
4.) Numerous people tend to be tribal fanboys and bandwagon hoppers. I have no use whatsoever for C#, yet its fanboys kept telling me for years that I was stupid for not switching to it. Humorously, a very large portion of those former C# fanboys are now Python fanboys - yet again thinking life is a popularity contest and coercing me to join their high school clique by switching over to Python because it is the current "it" language.
5.) Numerous other reasons but too little space to write and short attention spans of the readers makes me limit them.

So... rather than EVER asking why isn't this language more popular, you should always simply ask:
What language best suits my particular needs and what language do I feel most suited to/comfortable with? Because in reality, the opinions of all of those "high school mentality fanboys" has no real-life bearing on what you need in life to do your thing. It has been my experience in life that those who actually know the least about the internal workings of computers will assert that this language or that IDE is the "end all - be all of..." of software development whereas those who do know how computers genuinely work inside will avoid suggesting a particular software or language and, instead, remind you that each is but a tool meant to achieve a purpose and that, just as the Samurai will have his Katana custom-made for him, you must try on and choose which software/language best serves your goals and with which your soul feels most comfortable. Unless, of course, you are just a coding zombie who only wants to learn what ever language is hot on the market and is most likely to keep the paychecks rolling in.

LV

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #205 on: May 14, 2025, 07:11:04 pm »
Carefully read the topic of this thread and the comments here, then compare it with this https://julialang.org/blog/2022/02/10years/.
Do you notice the difference?  :)

JanRoza

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #206 on: May 14, 2025, 07:19:56 pm »
At least there are still people here to talk. You should be thankful for that.  8)

I am, that is the power of this forum, as long as we try to stay on topic. This forum is a real treasure chest of pascal knowledge, either by reading old topics or talking to someone to solve a problem or question.
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440bx

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #207 on: May 14, 2025, 07:38:37 pm »
Looks like some people have difficulty giving due credit.

Issac Newton said that if he had seen farther it was because he stood on the shoulders of giants.

Einstein was only average when it came to Math but, was rather above average in other areas, particularly physics in spite of what some people may say or believe.  He got helped with the Math particularly for the complex tensor Math needed for General Relativity, he made no secret of that.

If Bill Gates got rich off the back of someone, the main one would be Tim Paterson who wrote 86dos which Gates purchased for a very modest sum from him.  Another thing that helped Gates was that Gary Kildall grossly underestimated the opportunity IBM offered him.  If memory serves, it was Murray Sargent who showed Gates how to use the i386 protected mode in Windows (we all know what a difference that made.)

Thomas Edison got stuck on direct current which is not practical for widespread distribution but, that he wasn't always right is no reason to diminish his accomplishments.  For the record, while Tesla worked for a short time for Edison, Edison greatly underestimated Tesla' and AC's potential which are the main reasons why Tesla went on his own.  Tesla got no support for any of his projects from Edison, on the contrary, Edison, for some reason was completely unable to see AC's potential.  Edison was a very vocal proponent of the electric chair, which he saw as a way to discredit Tesla's AC.

The other two... it's close enough.

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JanRoza

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #208 on: May 14, 2025, 08:02:54 pm »
At least there are still people here to talk. You should be thankful for that.  8)

I am, that is the power of this forum, as long as we try to stay on topic. This forum is a real treasure chest of pascal knowledge, either by reading old topics or talking to someone to solve a problem or question.
Maybe this forum needs an off topic chat section for off topic chat to happen. That would give people who want to chat about random things a place to go. Many foss projects have that for people who want to chat about random things with other community members.

I disagree, that is not what this forum is for. For cosy chats about things that have nothing to do with Pascal or Lazarus you have to visit some other forum or create a forum yoursef.
I would like people in this forum to stay on topic.
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Lenny33

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Re: Why isn't Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?
« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2025, 01:21:36 am »
There is no place for any kind of faith in exact sciences, natural sciences, or technical fields. Only knowledge in terms of causes and effects matters. Either it is known how something works or it does not. And if you have doubts whether evolution works (and whether it is true), there are books and biologists who will explain it to you.
I already gave you an example about the strong doubts about the Big Bang in connection with some new data in cosmology. But a lot of people still believe it.
In the Middle Ages, people believed that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
You believe in some "blind evolution" even though many facts say it doesn't work that way. Random mutations do not produce new species. Mutations cannot explain the appearance of fundamentally new organs (such as eyes, for example).
Random mutations sometimes only slightly help in the adaptation of already established species, but no significant jump was recorded. But it is much more common for mutations to lead to death (cancer, for example).
Transitional forms have not yet been found. Experiments on the self-generation of life have failed. Even the probability of self-generation of an organism (the most primitive bacterium) with the programmed possibility of stable reproduction (self-copying) is purely mathematically so small as to be practically impossible.

We obviously don't understand something. But if you still belive in "blind evolution". Then it is your personal faith. And I have no against about your faith.
I respect your right to believe in something. But I prefer to be agnostic on this and many other such questions.

By the way, I suggest you watch the 9th episode of the 6th season of the "Futurama" animated TV-series - "A Clockwork Origin".
There this topic was dealt with in a very good humor.
:)

And let's finish this offtopic.
We will not help to pull Pascal out of the pit with this.

(I'm not going to respond any further on this topic.)

« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 02:31:25 am by Lenny33 »

 

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