Website renovation

[Wilrakov]

I agree with you. I probably shouldn't have reacted to all her provocations, but after a while, it gets too much for me to ignore. Maybe it's a maturity issue due to my age or maybe it's just me who's the problem, I don't know. I've tried to stop the arguments several times, but Joanna just starts them again. You can block my account if you want, at least I'll be forced to stop responding. Personally, this long thread is making me sick of Pascal, because I can't help thinking about her when I'm coding in this language. Frankly, I don't know if I should continue my work in Pascal or if I should literally switch to C or a perhaps more modern language with a less aggressive and more welcoming community.

[Martin_fr]

It happens. It ends when a moderator kicks in. Since you were directly affected, I let your reply stand.

All others, as I said: The topic is the website.

Other/Further replies not regarding the website will be removed. And may have consequence for their authors, depending on severity.

[Wilrakov]

Hello everyone, sorry for being a bit of a distraction.

After careful consideration, I've decided to take the plunge and renovate the website. It's really close to my heart. I don't quite remember what needed improving, but I think these issues need to be addressed:

• Website accessible from Lynx
• Multi-page
• No JavaScript

Is that it? I'm thinking of starting development from scratch, so I'm very open to discussion and your requests to ensure the website remains in the spirit and DNA of Free Pascal and its community.

Joanna, you're a champion of Pascal, and I find your cause truly... interesting. However, could you be a little more considerate? Oh, and I'm slowly getting back into coding in Pascal, so you might see I wasn't lying when you look at my Github 

[Curt Carpenter]

Given that I haven't been able to overcome the "enable cookies" problem on the current web site, the thought that it will be "renovated" fills me with dread 

[Wilrakov]

I'm not talking about the Lazarus website, which seems perfectly fine to me, and quite modern/functional. But https://freepascal.org needs a makeover in my opinion, at least adding responsiveness so that it can be accessed properly on a phone.

[Curt Carpenter]

Ah -- OK.  Good

[Thaddy]

Serving static pages is GOOD

[silvercoder70]

My 2c worth -

@Wilrakov, I applaud what you are doing—or trying to do. And perhaps a little story (and a true one)...

If you ask a group of 10 people what to do with X, you’ll probably get 10 different answers. Not only that, you might make a few enemies along the way. Take a parish council, for example. The flooring needs replacing. For the last 20 years it’s been carpet, so naturally some insist it should stay carpet. But vinyl is cheaper and easier to clean. If you manage to get past that debate, then it becomes a question of style and color. And so it goes.

Often it’s those who have been there the longest who push hardest to keep things the same. They know the routines, where everything is, and they don’t want disruption.

So when someone new suggests a different arrangement, it can feel threatening. Change isn’t always welcome.

I don’t know how much of this applies to Free Pascal and the website, but I suspect some of it might. There are definitely things I wish could be updated, though I don’t have the time myself. And it can also be subjective. Good luck to you.

PS. On character case and reserved words, Jeff D like to use capitalization for reserved words. Not sure how that compares to what everyone else likes. But then, begin, Begin, BEGIN and bEGIN are all the same thing!

[Thaddy]

I want a gray theme. Or Earle Grey.

[marcov]

Hello everyone, sorry for being a bit of a distraction.

After careful consideration, I've decided to take the plunge and renovate the website. It's really close to my heart. I don't quite remember what needed improving, but I think these issues need to be addressed:

• Website accessible from Lynx
• Multi-page
• No JavaScript

Is that it? I'm thinking of starting development from scratch, so I'm very open to discussion and your requests to ensure the website remains in the spirit and DNA of Free Pascal and its community.

I'm not the main webmaster, but as former release manager I have done a lot of updating the site for each release till 3.2.2

Some hard requirements based on the feedback in this thread:

• Static pages, using the current template generator (see earlier messages in this thread)
• Javascript is allowed, but not having it should not be an inhibitor to use the site.

The template generator has a few features:

• Primarily it combines the part of the page that doesn't change(like the top bar and the menu) with the per page content
• It handles the mirror system for the download page

Then we get into taste, which is obviously more my personal opinion.

• I didn't like the extreme darkness of the earlier site. Toned down, fine, deep black, no
• The already mentioned separate pages bit, I don't like all the scrolling
• The information density per page is quite low, which together with all the scrolling doesn't help overview

[440bx]

I find the Python website to be well laid out, aesthetically pleasing and offering quick access to a fair amount of information without having to scroll (which is good.)

Some information requires scrolling but, I think that's about inevitable when there is a lot of information to provide.

I don't know if whatever standards are being used for the FPC website would allow something along the lines of the Python web site but, it is what I consider a nice, informative and practical design.

my $0.02...

[Wilrakov]

I've read your messages and I'm taking into account all the points you mentioned.

@Thaddy, what do you mean by gray theme?

@markov
Well, I'm more or less familiar with your current system. However, I don't think it's the most suitable for the web. But I'll note this request, study how the template system works in detail, and update it.
By the way, yes, JavaScript isn't banned, but I think it's pretty useless in this use case.
Oh, and I added a light mode to my website quite a while ago...

@440bx
I'm going to look at (and study) the design of several programming sites, including Python. I'll pay attention to the points you highlight to best align with your idea. I need to find the right balance between aesthetics and functionality.

Thank you all for your feedback! However, I must inform you that development will take slightly longer than I originally imagined, as I also need to update the Pascal code.

PS: Would a package manager for Free Pascal be a waste? I mean, for later use, it could modernize the language. All we need to do is impose a library structure to be respected on the Git repository, and then on our side, we have a server that simply maps library name to URL and takes care of installing the library.

[PascalDragon]

PS: Would a package manager for Free Pascal be a waste? I mean, for later use, it could modernize the language. All we need to do is impose a library structure to be respected on the Git repository, and then on our side, we have a server that simply maps library name to URL and takes care of installing the library.

We already have a package manager for Free Pascal. Or at least that's a proof-of-concept based on fppkg. And for Lazarus there's the Online Package Manager.

[n7800]

Also: http://packages.lazarus-ide.org

[marcov]

I find the Python website to be well laid out, aesthetically pleasing and offering quick access to a fair amount of information without having to scroll (which is good.)

I don't see that. I even have to scroll just to see the "news" on the frontpage. Also it is a mess with a toplevel (python/pipy/jobs) menu bar, slightly lower a dropdown menu bar, and then another freight of links at the bottom.

I know it is a common layout, but IMHO it suffers from trying to link too much from the primary page.