Visuallab I will have to respectfully disagree with you on a few things..
Extraordinary
Because I completely disagree with what you wrote in reply number 30.
1. You might not be able to predict what a person or animal will do but that doesn’t mean that it has free will. Whatever it will do has already been determined by biology and conditioning etc.
In the case of animals, it is quite often possible to predict their behavior (with some exceptions). However, in the case of humans, you are right, it is not necessarily possible to do so. Animals are usually guided by instinct (they are hungry, they are scared, etc.). In addition, they can also be cruel without caring at all (they actually take advantage of it, e.g. lions, tigers, wolves). This is primitive behavior. Chimpanzees, on the other hand, demonstrate slightly greater social capabilities. As for humans, (apart from free will) they also have (allegedly) some intelligence and empathy. So they do not have to hurt anyone. And yet a certain percentage do it, even though they are not starving (they have food), not freezing (they have homes), etc.
2. People get the idea that they should do certain things and do them. whether it is harming or helping a neighbor. It depends upon their Culture upbringing and other conditions. It is not free will.
And why do people come up with such ideas? Because on the one hand, they want to be rich (or famous), but they also often don't want to study, don't want to work (they're lazy). People generally know well when their actions will harm someone. But they "don't give a damn" - this is called egoism, sometimes combined with psychopathy. And this is an action most definitely related to free will, because such a person puts their own (pathological) whims above good relations with the rest of society.
Yes, you're right that a lot depends on upbringing (imprinted patterns). But people raised in pathological societies do it either because such a system allows them to (and often also gives them some kind of benefit, sometimes perverse), or (if they don't even accept the pathological social system), they are afraid to oppose it. So they act out of fear (they then behave like primitive animals). There are also people who lived in nasty societies but did not do evil.
3. Punishment does not make anything better. Stopping someone from doing something bad is not really punishment.
Punishment exists so that society does not descend into the depths of chaos, anarchy and animalism. If society does not react decisively to the evil done by people with pathological tendencies, it is impossible to live. Ignoring evil is de facto allowing evil. I have already written about this earlier.
When punishment is considered a good idea, it often is used on innocent people. How does punishing someone who did nothing wrong prevent crime? On the flip side plenty of people who do bad things are not punished at all because they are above the law or evade being caught.
In this case you are right. But this does not apply to people who have done evil, and that is what we have been talking about so far. What you are writing about here applies to two situations:
- in relatively normal societies, when the crime detection system (investigation services, forensic laboratories, medical laboratories) is malfunctioning, then innocent people are convicted,
- in totalitarian systems, where criticism and ignoring the orders of such a system causes harm to people, (nowadays it is theocracy: the Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey; a specific oligarchic system: China, Russia).
Crime and punishment are merely tools for controlling the population through fear. Have you ever noticed how nobody ever cares how innocent babies grow up to be mass murderers? The narrative is always presented in the same way, sensationalized and advertised all over the place for maximum shock value. All information about why it was allowed to happen is never discussed.
Crime has existed for as long as humans have existed. So societies have had to develop a way to defend themselves against criminals (I mean real villains: thieves, bandits, murderers). Hence punishment.
4. When I mentioned imagination I was referring to phenomenon such as people staying in dysfunctional relationships clinging to the fantasy that things will get better. I think you’re referring to creativity. Most people are not very creative due to their upbringing which discourages it. It is not their fault. I’m creative and it’s an uphill battle dealing with people who are not.
But that has nothing to do with the rest of this discussion. What you're writing about applies to people who have gotten involved in dysfunctional relationships.
Recent
