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Author Topic: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language  (Read 2784 times)

Curt Carpenter

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2025, 11:15:44 pm »
I've not been paying close attention, but so far no one has alerted me to any papers on today's AI technologies as a mirror to human cognizance.  It strikes me as a key question to explore though.  Have you seen anything on it?  My sense is that we're at least one major breakthrough away from anything like AGI -- but I suspect that breakthrough will come. 

I took a course a few years ago that required three written papers.  The papers were going to be evaluated/graded by machine.  My question was whether there was any point, really, in writing a paper that was never going to be read by another human being.  What did it even mean to write anything in that context?  Now I imagine students using an AI to "write" their papers that are to be evaluated by another AI -- and the whole act of writing as an expression of human creativity vanishes like the Cheshire cat.

Joanna from IRC

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2025, 11:42:48 pm »
AI has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with fpc programming and should not be in this part of the forums. It is just another form of advertising spam and the people who come here to advertise AI should be treated like the other spammers.  >:D
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Warfley

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2025, 11:46:14 pm »
What the hell should ai language features be? You can use AI libraries like Torch as they have C bindings which can be translated to Pascal. You can use assistants like chat gpt with pascal either through external tools or through an addon.

Or do you mean actual language features, where you write code and let an LLM interpret what this code should mean? Would be an interesting April's fools joke to be honest, but nothing really useful

Joanna from IRC

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2025, 12:09:36 am »
Warfley I seriously doubt that the person advertising AI here has ever programmed in pascal at all or ever will.

Wouldn’t it be nice if AI advertisers were not given preferential treatment ? If anything this thread should be moved to the suggestions part of the forum. It most certainly doesn’t belong here.
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MarkMLl

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2025, 12:28:38 am »
I've not been paying close attention, but so far no one has alerted me to any papers on today's AI technologies as a mirror to human cognizance.  It strikes me as a key question to explore though.  Have you seen anything on it?  My sense is that we're at least one major breakthrough away from anything like AGI -- but I suspect that breakthrough will come. 

My problem is purely philosophical: if somebody were to accuse me of being nothing more than a bunch of pattern matching algorithms I'd be most royally miffed.

MarkMLl
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MarkMLl

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2025, 12:32:17 am »
AI has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with fpc programming and should not be in this part of the forums. It is just another form of advertising spam and the people who come here to advertise AI should be treated like the other spammers.  >:D

Since you profess to never see any of my postings I can be gratuitously rude: what the Hell do /you/ know about it?

And I /did/ see that message you deleted. And I /don't/ like being addressed like that. GET IT?

MarkMLl
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Curt Carpenter

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2025, 12:48:07 am »
What if someone told you you live in a deterministic universe and that "free will" is a myth?  That all our "choices" are simply the consequence of physical laws and long chains of cause and effect?

Your reaction to being nothing more than a bunch of pattern matching algorithms isn't that different from a lot of people's reaction to determinism -- and the arguments are related in a very fundamental way it seems to me.  Of course the arguments for and against free will are ancient  (and you and I won't see them resolved in our lifetimes) -- but the arguments are worth having anyway!

PS:  Joanna, do you every worry that maybe you just lack imagination?



Joanna from IRC

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2025, 07:41:58 am »
What if someone told you you live in a deterministic universe and that "free will" is a myth?  That all our "choices" are simply the consequence of physical laws and long chains of cause and effect?

Your reaction to being nothing more than a bunch of pattern matching algorithms isn't that different from a lot of people's reaction to determinism -- and the arguments are related in a very fundamental way it seems to me.  Of course the arguments for and against free will are ancient  (and you and I won't see them resolved in our lifetimes) -- but the arguments are worth having anyway!

PS:  Joanna, do you every worry that maybe you just lack imagination?
hi Curt, I have no idea what markml is saying because I can’t read his text . However, in response to your question ..

I don’t need to be told that we live in a deterministic universe, I already know it. Everything that happens is a result of events that are already predetermined. What happened in the past will determine what is possible in the future. Every event in your life up to this point has determined who you are and what you will do in any situation you encounter.

As I see it, free will has always been just a pretext for blaming people for things over which they have no control and then punishing them. Because of course the concept of free will is by definition doing things on purpose.

It would be good to get rid of the fantasy free will  and the ridiculous concept that punishment will somehow fix misdeeds. Punishment no matter how harsh, is unable undo many misdeeds.  Knowing that free will does not exist is not a bleak existence, it will free you from wasting time and energy being angry at people who cannot help themselves and do something constructive instead.

I’m not sure what you mean by lack imagination but I can say that it’s a good idea to not imagine too much it can lead to a lot of disappointment.
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LV

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2025, 07:56:09 am »
I fondly remember my university years. I wrote a philosophical paper on the topic of "free will," at the same time, I enjoyed studying history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite  ;)

Joanna from IRC

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2025, 08:25:03 am »
I never knew that luddites were originally craftsmen. Nothing has changed since then, the trend of consolidating all food production and manufacturing of necessities into the control of very few greedy people {who produce inferior products to sell for as much as they can get} continues.

I recently bought some insulated clothing at store made in China which seemed rather cheap. After wearing it for a short time I noticed that the smooth cloth inside had exposed insulation because the seams had torn open because they didn’t bother to make the inner liner as large as the outer part and all the strain was on the weak seam holding the insulation together! I would have gladly paid 3 times as much for clothing that is made properly   >:D 

The problem of new clothes falling apart pales In comparison to what will happen if skilled software developers are replaced with ai technicians who produce garbage code which is then used to control very dangerous equipment and such..
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MarkMLl

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2025, 09:30:17 am »
I have no idea what markml is saying because I can’t read his text .

That one's easily explicable: the woman's an idiot.

With apologies to the moderators, but I find her continual attempts to get me onto IRC to be tedious in the extreme.

MarkMLl
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MarkMLl

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2025, 09:55:05 am »
Markml someone just told me you just said something nice to me.
I’m so flattered.  :-*
You’re doing a great job of community building here. I bet more people will want to come join us to use fpc after seeing how friendly you are.
I’m sure you would be great fun to have a chat with  :D

The woman's still an idiot, and in my opinion has done the overall community a significant amount of harm with her mission to root out "haters".

MarkMLl
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VisualLab

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2025, 01:56:17 pm »
I don’t need to be told that we live in a deterministic universe, I already know it. Everything that happens is a result of events that are already predetermined. What happened in the past will determine what is possible in the future. Every event in your life up to this point has determined who you are and what you will do in any situation you encounter.

You are right about determinism in the case of inanimate objects and (probably) plants. In the case of objects like animals and humans, it is not so obvious. The more complex the organism and the more distant the future, the more likely it is that it cannot be predicted.

As I see it, free will has always been just a pretext for blaming people for things over which they have no control and then punishing them. Because of course the concept of free will is by definition doing things on purpose.

Not true. There are things that people have no influence over, for example an earthquake, an asteroid strike. And there are things that they have a huge influence over: for example, harming a neighbor (robbing or killing a neighbor). An exception can be made from the latter for people who are mentally handicapped or ill (but others, e.g. their family, have to think for them). Otherwise, no one would be sure of life and property. There would be no societies, only chaotic devouring of some by others (in a word, "jungle").

It would be good to get rid of the fantasy free will  and the ridiculous concept that punishment will somehow fix misdeeds. Punishment no matter how harsh, is unable undo many misdeeds.  Knowing that free will does not exist is not a bleak existence, it will free you from wasting time and energy being angry at people who cannot help themselves and do something constructive instead.

Punishment is not intended to undo the crimes (everyone knows that it is impossible to undo what has happened). At most, it can be repaired, compensated for the crimes. Punishment is intended to:

- stop the criminal (the wrongdoer, the scoundrel) from committing further crimes,
- deter other people who might be willing to commit similar crimes,
- force the criminal to change their behavior so that they do not harm people,
- sometimes also to repair, compensate for the wrongs done to people whom the criminal has wronged (robbed, beaten, maimed).

As for free will - it is not known whether it exists or not. So far, no one has proven its existence, there are only circumstantial evidences that it may exist. On the other hand, no one has disproved the hypothesis of the existence of free will. In a word: there is no clear conclusion. However, many things indicate that something like free will most likely exists. However, there may be individual differences between people (if only because we know about the existence of psychopaths).

And finally, the most important thing: over the centuries, there have been many people who have analyzed pathologies related to human behavior (the emergence and development of ethics, analysis of human behavior, analysis of social phenomena). This was and is a constructive action. But there are still many other pathologies, especially those that are considered a virtue (e.g. the totalitarian ideology of the early Middle Ages, which for some strange reason is considered a religion, and which preceded the 20th-century totalitarianisms by 1600 1300 years and is still eagerly promoted) or the triumphant return of censorship and stupidity criticizing and attacking the scientific achievements of humanity (especially biology).

I’m not sure what you mean by lack imagination but I can say that it’s a good idea to not imagine too much it can lead to a lot of disappointment.

If people had no imagination and did not imagine many things, then for example there would be no computers, programming languages ​​and compilers. And many other things that humanity uses today. Everyone would be ape-men, sitting in trees and eating some primitive, bristly and sour fruits (there would not even be bananas).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2025, 03:08:12 pm by VisualLab »

MarkMLl

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2025, 02:07:05 pm »
Otherwise, no one would be sure of life and property. There would be no societies, only chaotic devouring of some by others (in a word, "jungle").

Or as Hobbes put it, "...nasty, brutish and short".

"Everything is predetermined" doesn't hold water, unless you discount observations relating to chaotic systems, and the essential unpredictability of the Universe at the quantum level: the further removed an effect is from its putative cause in space or time, the more tenuous any possible mechanism of influence, until it is submerged in the Universe's background noise beyond all possibility of extraction.

Trying to get back somewhat on topic: possibly the most interesting feature of the current technology is the extent to which, once the various weights and parameters have been deduced, limited "AIs" can be run even on low-end microcontrollers. https://github.com/emlearn/emlearn

However as far as programming is concerned:

Quote
According to a recent report by code analysis firm Uplevel there are no significant benefits, while GitHub Copilot also introduced 41% more bugs. Commentary from development teams suggests that while the coding assistant makes for faster writing of code, debugging or maintaining the code is often not realistic.
https://hackaday.com/2024/10/15/assessing-developer-productivity-when-using-ai-coding-assistants/

MarkMLl
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Joanna from IRC

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Re: Add Artificial Intelligence features into the Object Pascal Language
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2025, 03:15:41 pm »
Visuallab I will have to respectfully disagree with you on a few things..
1. You might not be able to predict what a person or animal will do but that doesn’t mean that it has free will. Whatever it will do has already been determined by biology and conditioning etc.

2. People get the idea that they should do certain things and do them. whether it is harming or helping a neighbor. It depends upon their Culture upbringing and other conditions. It is not free will.

3. Punishment does not make anything better. Stopping someone from doing something bad is not really punishment. When punishment is considered a good idea, it often is used on innocent people. How does punishing someone who did nothing wrong prevent crime? On the flip side plenty of people who do bad things are not punished at all because they are above the law or evade being caught.

Crime and punishment are merely tools for controlling the population through fear. Have you ever noticed how nobody ever cares how innocent babies grow up to be mass murderers? The narrative is always presented in the same way, sensationalized and advertised all over the place for maximum shock value. All information about why it was allowed to happen is never discussed.

4. When I mentioned imagination I was referring to phenomenon such as people staying in dysfunctional relationships clinging to the fantasy that things will get better. I think you’re referring to creativity. Most people are not very creative due to their upbringing which discourages it. It is not their fault. I’m creative and it’s an uphill battle dealing with people who are not.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2025, 03:21:33 pm by Joanna from IRC »
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