Lazarus Observations

[Handoko]

Really guys and a lady - the sarcastic remarks I must believe again is due to you seeing this as a personal criticism ...

I think differently. Sure some will see your comments as a criticism but not all of us, each person judges things differently. Actually people here are very open for new suggestions and ideas. But the problem is not as simple as it is good or not, I personally believe it is more about is it easy to be implemented or not and who is going to implement and maintain the features.

As someone ever explained, Lazarus and FPC are not new projects. It is not the time to collect and add new features. More attention will be focus on bug fixing. I don't mean, all new ideas/suggestions will be refused. But if you visit the bug tracker, you will see a long list of problems needed to be fixed.

We are simply lack of man power. It had been years, we saw problems in the wiki/documentation area. There were several suggestions/attempts to fix the documentation, but not much had been done. Luckily, I saw some improvements of the documentation recently. Slow, but thank you to the people who made the documentation better.

Back to the IDE features. The forum is pretty active, but only very few of us have the skill/knowledge to edit or add new feature to the code of Lazarus/FPC. If you believe your suggestions are good, please provide the information in more detailed, maybe some drawings or screenshots. Hopefully, someone will be interested and write the features so we all can benefit from it.

The first bit that I wanted to do was use Pascal Script to do something.  Turns out that it has issues on X64 as raising an exception in ReadI32 makes the executable crash and burn.  The threads indicate to Windows 64 issues, but I have found, that even though it reacts differently to Windows on Linux (better) it is still not correct.

If you found bug, please post it in the bug tracker. Posting bug here may be forgotten.

[Gawie]

@Handoko - Understood.  A big thank you for calling a spade a spade - I have respect for that.  I have started to gather as much in that it is not a case of good or better, it is a case of resources and not reinventing something that was "inherited" as good enough in concept and continued with focus on fixing rather than rethink.  I have no intent on learning to write plugins, but fortunately the project XMLs are easy enough to script things into it....  I have also, on everything but the Form Design, caught myself sitting more and more in a 3rd party editor than in Lazarus; which defeats the purpose...


The bug is already logged, (April), so will look for alternatives as it is not fixed.   Please again, I pay nothing so I expect nothing; so no criticism intended, it is just the way it is.

[Martin_fr]

  I give up...  well done-  you have worn me down and I won't ask the seemingly obvious since I am the only guy that thinks there is value there (value for all)

I find the not moving forward frustrating too. Despite, I don't know if it would resolve any issues or not. For me the wearing down part is that you don't present the information in a way that would allow me to actually understand it.
It may be dead obvious for you, it certainly isn't for me. Maybe because I am of the older generation and the "ways of long ago" are too prevalent in me. Maybe some other reason...

Ok, I now understand the "2 Window" project and group issues (at least I think I do). => Project files are already shown in the project group. So basically move all the buttons and actions from the project window over to the group window, and make it possible to fully maintain each project within the group window.
I can actually see merit in there. I can also see that some people may not like it. For me it wouldn't matter.
I don't know if that has a chance to be added. Well, it could always be a package, imho the most likely (if anyone want to spend the time on implementing it)

As for adding files (I think you mentioned that a few times), I am still unclear. I just made a new project, clicked add and select hundreds of files. Even works accross several folders in one single go (at least on windows, as I can search for "*.pas" in the open file dialog.
Only downside, it will ask for each folder if it should add it to the path, rather than consolidating that. (Comes back to the question if using folders like that is good style when using Pascal).
Same for any other "per file" decisions. (such as adding forms to the "auto-create list"). That could be improved. Could be added as feature request.

Pascal script: Ok, you found a bug, unfortunately external code (even if we ship a copy of it). It will only get fixed if the original author looks into it.


For all else, I recall you still had some issues with the debugger not showing you enough info? And IIRC, that was after the lack of properties had been established? Or was it only the lack of properties.
Or was it inlined functions, that also had been established.
Because if there is still a woe on that area, then I would like to understand it.
After all that is actually something I am working on. Though if I could do something then depends, since those issues can be compiler or debugger.
But if I don't know what it is.... And it doesn't matter how obvious it is to you, it may not be to me at all.

[VisualLab]

Really guys and a lady - the sarcastic remarks I must believe again is due to you seeing this as a personal criticism - instead of me asking whether anybody else is also having this issue and whether there are plans to improve it. 

Thanks again to a select few that understand the question; or stayed close to the topic at least.

For...  The management of the project system is simply clunky.  It is eating up too much space (two panes to do succesfully), is a a drag to use.  I have made my point many times.  It is not about changing it for me - it is about whether Lazarus can be used in way conventional to most other IDEs and languages.  I give up...  well done-  you have worn me down and I won't ask the seemingly obvious since I am the only guy that thinks there is value there (value for all).  (It is quicker for me to edit the project XML with lots of files in directories than use the IDE just for an example...  )

You wrote that you returned to Pascal after many years of using other languages ​​and IDEs. Please note that Lazarus is not TurboPascal. Over the years, the tools (compilers, editors, IDEs) have changed. The people who created Lazarus have developed their own concept of how to work on projects. This is different from other IDEs (Visual Studio, NetBeans, Eclipse, and even current versions of Delphi). Sometimes it makes sense to copy (implement) certain solutions from other IDEs, and sometimes it doesn't. However, among many IDE users, there are groups that often have opposing needs/expectations. I understand your irritation, but reconciling the conflicting expectations of many people is impossible.

However, in order not to end this summary pessimistically, I suggest that you describe in more detail what you would like to change in Lazarus. The description as a user suggestion. In particular, in terms of project management. Maybe in a similar way as I did it in message (reply) No. 25. That is, with a text description and screenshots. Instead of screenshots, there could be some drawings (schemes, graphic mockups).

For example, I would very much like to see in Lazarus a separation of the component and control tree from the table of properties and events, which are placed in the Object Inspector (as it is done in Delphi). Then the proper Object Inspector would contain only the table. And the component tree would have a separate panel (tab), called for example: "Structure" (as in Delphi). It seems to me that the current Object Inspector is too overloaded. Additionally, people with a computer with a small screen would find it easier to work, all they had to do was switch to a separate tab.

EDIT: I added an attachment showing what I meant.

I still think that streamlining the project (or multi-project) management panel would be a very desirable feature in Lazarus. These are, of course, suggestions.

BTW: The first bit that I wanted to do was use Pascal Script to do something.  Turns out that it has issues on X64 as raising an exception in ReadI32 makes the executable crash and burn.  The threads indicate to Windows 64 issues, but I have found, that even though it reacts differently to Windows on Linux (better) it is still not correct.  Read all I could find and even registered to RemObjects; tried to patch etc - and spent more time than I can afford on it....    So yes, maybe a pipe dream to think that I can use Pascal competitively without going down the rabbit hole.

In this case, it would be best to report it to the people responsible for this package (library).

[Joanna]

Really guys and a lady - the sarcastic remarks I must believe again is due to you seeing this as a personal criticism - instead of me asking whether anybody else is also having this issue and whether there are plans to improve it. 

No sarcasm was intended, I really do want you to get familiar enough with free pascal and Lazarus so that you can modify the code to do what you want. Many people here are Mostly happy with Lazarus the way it is and don’t want it being changed to imitate some other ide.
Showing up and Demanding that Lazarus be changed to be the way That you want it to be regardless of the Opinions of people who have been using it for years is a bit presumptuous don’t you think?

[Martin_fr]

Really guys and a lady - the sarcastic remarks I must believe again is due to you seeing this as a personal criticism - instead of me asking whether anybody else is also having this issue and whether there are plans to improve it. 

No sarcasm was intended, I really do want you to get familiar enough with free pascal and Lazarus so that you can modify the code to do what you want. Many people here are Mostly happy with Lazarus the way it is and don’t want it being changed to imitate some other ide.
Showing up and Demanding that Lazarus be changed to be the way That you want it to be regardless of the Opinions of people who have been using it for years is a bit presumptuous don’t you think?

[sarcasm on]
Maybe it is our different skills with regards to the English language, on which you in a previous Episode hinted towards the superiority of yours.  But...
[sarcasm off]

I don't see any demands being made.
Just questions, suggestions and sharing of ideas.

[Joanna]

Yes, English is my native language and my vocabulary is well above average compared to other native English speakers. My interpretation Is that he wants everything to be handed to him on a silver platter.

I understand that you are interested in new ideas. That’s fine.. 

[H₂SO₄]

Yes, English is my native language and my vocabulary is well above average compared to other native English speakers.

I'd like to ask a genuine question - why do Some people Capitalize random words In everything they Type?
I really do believe your native language is English, because if an L2 speaker made this kind of mistake there'd be some pattern to it (e.g. nouns capitalized -> German), but yours seems all over the place...

No sarcasm was intended, I really do want you to get familiar enough with free pascal and Lazarus so that you can modify the code to do what you want. Many people here are Mostly happy with Lazarus the way it is and don’t want it being changed to imitate some other ide.
Showing up and Demanding that Lazarus be changed to be the way That you want it to be regardless of the Opinions of people who have been using it for years is a bit presumptuous don’t you think?

[Joanna]

My autocomplete spellchecker did it not me. I didn’t expect that it would bother anyone. Fixing it gets tedious and is unnecessary.