FPC on Web3

[Blacha]

Good MAE, 
as a long-time enthusiast of the FPC/Lazarus development environment, I am fortunate enough to have been able to develop a commercial system with applications developed in this development environment as its core components. Thank you very much for the knowledge you are sharing here. I have drawn heavily on it.
The system I created operates on Web2 solutions. Unfortunately, in order to take care of data confidentiality, personal data protection, system security and to stay abreast of potential threats and projects to increase cyber security, I spent a lot of time on the above problems instead of developing the functionality of the system. We know that trends related to cyber security are changing at a dizzying pace.

I was looking for an alternative...

I was interested in Web3 solutions, which would eliminate most of the problems of Web2. Above all, I wanted decentralisation and data security. At the same time, I was not satisfied with hybrid solutions (e.g. frontend-web2 <-> backend-web3).
And I found something that made me start learning the syntax of a completely new programming language (native to my chosen Web3 environment). No, it's not Solidity. This programming language is called Motoko, and the Web3 solution is called Internet Computer Protocol.

What are the characteristics of this Web3 environment? First of all, both the frontend and the backend are decentralised. An example is this website, which is 100% on-chain: https://6ec2p-paaaa-aaaal-ai45q-cai.icp0.io/ Web3 data is organised in so-called canisters, whose content is exposed and processed by WebAssembly.

But why am I writing to you about this?

Well, I have noticed that many communities around different programming languages are building coding capabilities for Web3 in the Internet Computer Protocol. Besides, I think Web3 is a very good direction to go, bearing in mind that in Web3 everyone will be the undisputed owner of their data entered there. Internet Computer Protocol provides a sensible opportunity for this.

I'm happy with the development of FPC/Lazarus (pas2js, CSS). I am happy with the tests described in this article, for example: https://faizilham.github.io/making-budget-pascal-compiler
I am aware of my still too little knowledge about web solutions, so I ask a question to the wiser - what do you see as potential obstacles to building Web3 solutions with WebAssembly in the FPC/Lazarus environment?

[Thaddy]

Looks like spam, because fpc can already compile to web assembly....

[dsiders]

Looks like spam, because fpc can already compile to web assembly....

If it's not spam... it is definitely word salad.

[Blacha]

I'll try differently...
I recommend a very nice material from last year indicating Pascal's development tendencies in the area of Web Development: https://youtu.be/epwjaCoTQug?si=WKx1BD78DL8bxsJL
The entire lecture above is about Web2 solutions. Unfortunately, the world is "rushing" towards Web3 solutions. Because while there is no problem with preparing the frontend in Pascal (I know perfectly well that WebAssembly is within reach, so this is not what the discussion is about), there are no solutions that allow you to compile the backend to work in a distributed ledger (of any kind). Aside from languages specializing in such coding, in Python, C, C++ you can already do it...

[Thaddy]

Freepascal trunk does the same, but you need trunk and compile a cross compiler for wasm.
It is really there and you can see for yourself it really is (already) good. There are frequent updates to iron out the last glitches. but you have to use trunk.

[Blacha]

Freepascal trunk does the same, but you need trunk and compile a cross compiler for wasm.
It is really there and you can see for yourself it really is (already) good. There are frequent updates to iron out the last glitches. but you have to use trunk.

Sorry for the naïve question - why do I need a trunk in a distributed ledger/blockchain? It is useless. That's the problem – we need completely different tools for Web3. To be clear - WebAssembly is not a problem, on the contrary - the fact that Pascal can handle it is a huge advantage and a big step forward in development for Web3. I suggest you take a look at how the community, e.g. C/C++, does it.

[VisualLab]

Blacha, if you want to be on top, use the Mbutu programming language with the Network Transputer Protocol (NetTrP), which uses cognitive paths for parallel processing of decentralized and clustered data. What you presented were some toys from yesterday. Mbutu works based on Web4 solutions (Web5 solutions will be available in a month at the latest). And yes, I agree that trends related to cybersecurity are changing at a dizzying pace. That is why solutions using complementary matroids have been implemented in the NetTrP protocol, and data transfer between them is carried out using duads and triads (monads are not used because they can be easily decoded).
Dear Blacha, I suggest you stop talking nonsense. And give up what you smoke, because it's harmful to you

[Thaddy]

We do not need to look. mechanisms and principles as other languages do. Indeed a bit naive.

[Khrys]

To those that aren't aware, "Web3" is a marketing term used by cryptocurrency proponents to describe their vision of an internet wherein central servers have been displaced by decentralized nodes of the almighty blockchain.

To utilize network resources (e.g. sending transactions, executing blockchain VM code, hosting something), of course payment in the form of cryptocurrency is required. To acquire such crypto, you either need to participate in the network (that is, either expend huge amounts of compute resources/electricity in proof-of-work systems or lock up a large amount of capital in proof-of-stake chains) or, in true market liberalist fashion, buy it on the open market. Crypto prices are extremely volatile and unpredictable, with the project founders often controlling a large portion of the supply. The end goal for many projects is thus getting people to buy their coin in order to make the founders filthy rich.

And as you've probably noticed, crypto proponents are amongst the worst offenders when it comes to buzzword salad.


Granted, I'm biased. I just can't shake the feeling of ulterior motives with these kinds of posts (e.g. pumping a personal investment), especially since the original post reads like a promotion for Internet Computer/ICP.

[marcov]

on Web4 solutions (Web5 solutions will be available in a month at the latest).

Is that the one with A.I. ?

[Blacha]

Good MAE,
I suggest looking at the issue without irony, stereotypes, your own fears. These curve the picture and cause the subject to be perceived through fear and uncertainty. This is an old method of manipulating public opinion, and we don't want that, do we? We may be stuck in a sense of our own ‘awesomeness’, but that's not the point after all.
The fact is that the commitment of programmers to the development of the Pascal language through its use is slowly dying out. It is also a fact that the FPC community is quite active (as evidenced by this forum). And we can tell each other what a very cool tool FPC is, but unfortunately, the job market does not bear this out. Someone might ask me - well, why did you choose FPC/Lazarus? The answer is simple - I'm an ‘old school’ programmer, and the licensing opportunities provided by this development environment allowed me to create commercial products with an attractive ‘cost-effectiveness’ ratio with the ability to run on different operating systems with different processors. This was exactly what I needed.
Unfortunately, today this no longer impresses anyone...
A few words about money and personal data...
Someone here wrote that blockchain, that scammers, that it's disgusting money and that it should generally be avoided. And that is the stereotype, because we look at this technology through the prism of money. My good advice - if you don't want to be scammed, then...don't get scammed. Think for yourself and don't be greedy.
And now for some facts about Interent Computer Protocol:

• ICP network node points today are a very different reality to the one cited in the 2022 forum thread. Each of us can get involved. A matter of time, money and being vetted by the DAO-centric ICP community (for the inquisitive - recall the history of DNS development and what has been done to increase decentralisation. Here the story is very similar);
• the website linked in my first post has been put on the blockchain as SC, but without the backend. It is an experimental product to test the capabilities of ICP. The cost of embedding and maintaining this website in the ICP blockchain is...$5. At the current level of traffic, the website will run cost-free and maintenance-free for the next 10 years. Horse and pony who can achieve such a result with web2 solutions. I don't see a more attractive alternative to this form of hosting;
• a great example of the possibilities of this technology is the OpenChat messenger (decentralised and on-chain 100%). If anyone is interested in exploring the possibilities of this software - feel free to contact me on OpenChat.

As a certified data protection officer, I am starting to view with amusement (unfortunately) solutions that ensure confidentiality within the framework of contracts for outsourcing the processing of personal data. It's like that joke about ‘social confidentiality’ - everyone knows something about you, but you don't know that they know it. And with Web2, that is exactly the case. In my country, the Minister of Health used knowledge from the medical informatics system in a public discussion with his opponent. This is VERY DANGEROUS.

And most importantly - I absolutely do not intend to touch on the financial benefits of using blockchain here.
Let me give you an example - I am in the process of developing a Web3 application for accounting for taxes on capital trading. Blockchain ICP allows me to build a database with a high degree of confidentiality. I am using Motoko to create the SC. And I would like FPC because I see the potential.
Just that and so much more...

P.S. I am thinking in this way that if the FPC/Lazarus community functioned within its own DAO and decisions on development directions were made within the DAO, this discussion would take a very different shape.

[VisualLab]

on Web4 solutions (Web5 solutions will be available in a month at the latest).

Is that the one with A.I. ?

No. It was a (slightly malicious) joke on my part. I responded to his gibberish with anti-gibberish. His long-winded tirade without content (such "clacking") is written in such a way that it reminds me of the ramblings of a troll-tout type of person who is convinced of his so-called "fucking awesomness" (or kind of IT fanfuckingtasticness).

[VisualLab]

Good MAE,
I suggest...

<cut> his textual chaff </cut>

...very different shape.

At first I was going to respond to this "text chaff", but it's a waste of my time. The content gives the impression that it was generated by some AI bot powered by a (parameterized) script into which someone added a list of keywords that should be included in the resulting text. It's a waste of time to spend on this garbage. People visiting the forum may get the impression that there are more such rubbish threads, so this may negatively affect the perception of the forum by people who visit the forum less often. I suggest deleting this thread, it's a waste of space for garbage.

[MarkMLl]

At first I was going to respond to this "text chaff", but it's a waste of my time. The content gives the impression that it was generated by some AI bot powered by a (parameterized) script into which someone added a list of keywords that should be included in the resulting text. It's a waste of time to spend on this garbage. People visiting the forum may get the impression that there are more such rubbish threads, so this may negatively affect the perception of the forum by people who visit the forum less often. I suggest deleting this thread, it's a waste of space for garbage.

It must be genuine and incisive, Joanna hasn't accused OP of being a troll or a "Pascal hater"...

MarkMLl

[marcov]

So, assume all you say it is true (since blockchain etc discussions are not on topic here, only Pascal programming is), what are your plans?

Will you port FPC to web3, and when do you expect to have something running?

Large work and course changes must be done by the people with a large stake in the subject matter, and you seem to be passionate about it.

Expecting the current developers to drop what they are doing is not likely to happen, so not very productive, since they might not be in the security field (in that way)