I give up. No IDEs can satisfy me.

[Yuta]

Lazarus IDE is powerful, but it always has an outdated feeling to me. There are people working on Pascal / Free Pascal language plugins on modern IDEs like Jetbrain IDEs or Visual Studio Code, but they are all not perfect. There are plugins to modernize Lazarus like AnchorDocking or IDE Scout etc., but they are also not perfect. Errors can easily happen and crash the IDE with plugins uncontrollably as well. I can deal with Git with just command lines, but some other IDEs provides better view for things like git blame and git merge internally, I ended up sometimes needing to open Lazarus and another IDE / Git Tool at the same time which I feel awkward. In the end, with the dying of Pascal language itself, I had barely hope on any significant support on Lazarus would appear on any other IDEs. Lazarus IDE would be the only option relevant. It's sad.

[440bx]

general, imprecise, vague complaints aren't going to change anything.

if you have specific deficiencies to mention and how they can be overcome, that could be useful and, in addition, they might be implemented.

Hopefully your next post is more specific.

[Joanna]

Lazarus IDE is powerful, but it always has an outdated feeling to me. There are people working on Pascal / Free Pascal language plugins on modern IDEs like Jetbrain IDEs or Visual Studio Code, but they are all not perfect. There are plugins to modernize Lazarus like AnchorDocking or IDE Scout etc., but they are also not perfect. Errors can easily happen and crash the IDE with plugins uncontrollably as well. I can deal with Git with just command lines, but some other IDEs provides better view for things like git blame and git merge internally, I ended up sometimes needing to open Lazarus and another IDE / Git Tool at the same time which I feel awkward. In the end, with the dying of Pascal language itself, I had barely hope on any significant support on Lazarus would appear on any other IDEs. Lazarus IDE would be the only option relevant. It's sad.

What is green and lives under a bridge ?

[MarkMLl]

Joanna, if you don't like his opinion either ignore it or produce a coherent argument demonstrating that he's wrong.

In short, stop trolling.

MarkMLl

[Joanna]

Joanna, if you don't like his opinion either ignore it or produce a coherent argument demonstrating that he's wrong.

In short, stop trolling.

MarkMLl

Your reading comprehension skills are excellent!
It is quite valiant of you to support someone whose first post on a 19 month old account informs us that Lazarus is useless and pascal is a dying language..

In the end, with the dying of Pascal language itself, I had barely hope on any significant support on Lazarus would appear on any other IDEs. Lazarus IDE would be the only option relevant. It's sad.

sounds great! Sign me up!!
Cheers

[Curt Carpenter]

I've been spending some time with Turbo Pascal and its old character-based IDE -- fondly remembered from long ago.  I loved that IDE at the time -- but nothing will help you appreciate the Lazarus IDE more than going back to the tools of a few decades ago.  We have become very spoiled, but perhaps you have to be old to realize it 

(And who knows what magic lies ahead as technology gives each of us a programming assistant in a box or something like it.)

[MarkMLl]

Your reading comprehension skills are excellent!
It is quite valiant of you to support someone whose first post on a 19 month old account informs us that Lazarus is useless and pascal is a dying language..

All development environments are a matter of taste, and most of us who are familiar with the Lazarus IDE dislike e.g. VS to a more or less vocal extent.

But the bottom line is that Pascal, as a language, /is/ dying, and is only kept going by the relative strengths of the IDEs that use it: in particular their integrated form designers and debuggers.

MarkMLl

[440bx]

<snip> in particular their integrated form designers and debuggers.

IMO, it doesn't matter how good a language is, if debugging the code written in that language is time consuming/difficult/cumbersome, the time cost erases any gains the language itself may provide.

Until about a year ago, I still used VS because of its debugger.  Now it is somewhat rare that I use it for the debugger, when I do it's because its debugging of assembly code is still the best there is at this time (unfortunately.)

As a programming environment, I consider VS a complete disgrace.  When it comes to editing code, I think even the missing link would run away from that thing. It's a binary inquisition, medieval torture (MS should provide free morphine with every VS download.)

Of course, I still use it because there are some libraries out there that are only available in C and porting them to Pascal is too much work.

Another very significant advantage of the Lazarus/FPC combination is that 64 bit assembly is supported and, while it is very rare that I resort to assembly, when I do it's because coding it in Pascal (or C) has very severe shortcomings.  The lack of 64 bit assembly support in MS C/C++ is what caused me to have another look at FPC (looked at it before that and decided it didn't cut it at that time.)   After determining that 64 bit assembly was supported, the next priority was determining the environment's debugging abilities which at the time were, for practical purposes, GDB centric and basically "adequate" (Lazarus is likely one of best front ends to GDB.)

There are good, solid and practical reasons to choose the Lazarus and FPC combination but, it's not the "groovy"/"in" language, therefore it is ignored or worse, criticized/put down, by the "enlightened" (like the OP) who believe they are programmers because they can write python code.  Yeah, like the Pope is an astronaut.

[lainz]

I think that was his first and last message, so don't feed the troll and continue; begin .. end;

[Joanna]

For me it’s quite obvious that the objective of the original poster is to discourage people from using Lazarus and pascal. His first post is to inform us that he is “giving up” and to tell anyone foolish enough to heed his advice not to use Lazarus or pascal language.

This is a support forum for people who use fpc and Lazarus is it not? There are plenty of other places to post this propaganda besides here.

I seriously doubt that he has ever used Lazarus or pascal language at all. I see no evidence of it , being that his first post is a bunch of lies about Lazarus being unusable. I’ve used Lazarus for years along with git and not had any problems that would make me want to give up using it.

Who knows how many accounts this person has .. do we really need to keep pretending that every new account is a new person? 

@lainz that might be his last post on this account but I doubt that it is his last post .

[silvercoder70]

And COBOL is dying as well. And...?

So... I am old enough to remember when things like auto-complete did not exist. When you had to refer to a manual (paper thing) to remind yourself how a function worked. When "forms" were coded by hand. Before Windows. Or when Windows came out you had to write own message handler!

Fast forward to today...

You are not forced to use an IDE. Except for creating the form itself and setting related properties, you could if you wanted to... use notepad to the connect the event handlers OR pick you editor of choice. A language is only dies when there no one is using or supporting it. There are still positions to be found on spaces like upwork. In some countries Pascal related languages is going OK or better than you might think. And just because a language does not sing as loudly as others...

[MarkMLl]

And COBOL is dying as well. And...?

So... I am old enough to remember when things like auto-complete did not exist. When you had to refer to a manual (paper thing) to remind yourself how a function worked. When "forms" were coded by hand. Before Windows. Or when Windows came out you had to write own message handler!

Fast forward to today...

You are not forced to use an IDE. Except for creating the form itself and setting related properties, you could if you wanted to... use notepad to the connect the event handlers OR pick you editor of choice. A language is only dies when there no one is using or supporting it. There are still positions to be found on spaces like upwork. In some countries Pascal related languages is going OK or better than you might think. And just because a language does not sing as loudly as others...

Agreed, but I also agree with at least some of OP's points.

For example, I explored the docking interface earlier this year and found it virtually unusable: way too fragile to give a non-geek user. For another example, the VCS plugins (Subversion, Git etc.) don't get much love.

Now I know that this being open source what I- and OP, and anybody else who's unhappy- should be doing is trying to work out how the IDE etc. are put together and then assuming maintenance responsibility *... which would result in a far larger loss of productivity than writing our own app-specific pane manager or driving the local VCS from the shell.

I, for one, find the Lazarus IDE "refreshingly conservative": while it's possible to go overboard with packages etc., by and large projects are a handful of well-understood files on top of FPC-compatible source.

MarkMLl

** Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2347/

[Joanna]

  nice cartoon markml that reminds me of the time a disgruntled opensource programmer broke everything that was using his code..

[MarkMLl]

nice cartoon markml that reminds me of the time a disgruntled opensource programmer broke everything that was using his code..

Yes, and guess where the developer lived...

MarkMLl

[Fred vS]

Hello.

Did you check this ?:
https://wiki.freepascal.org/IDE

And particularly those pure Pascal projects, with pure Pascal widgetset without any dependencies to other C widgetset?
https://github.com/mse-org/mseide-msegui/
and
https://github.com/fredvs/ideU/