"Non-English speaking" or "English as a second language" programmers

[marcov]

Its better to keep it to one language.

I cant say how many times i have used bad words to describe that excel translates the formulas to your locale, i hope someone was fired for that decision.

And different locales (and thus different separator with CSV). IIRC I also had some weird problems with serving CSV from a website and getting them to open correctly in both Dutch ( fieldsep=;   decimal=, ) and English ( fieldsep=,   decimal=. )  Excel. (or at least properly popping up the conversion wizard)

[TRon]

But you have a point as it seems that most (if not all) AI models are trained using the English language which I fear will further decline the use of (other) native languages.

There are really extremely few areas where the English language has had as much of an influence as it has had in computing.  The only other area that comes to mind is aviation where English is the standard language (an air traffic controller _must_ speak English to a reasonable level.)

Both occurrences have one thing in common, commercial computing and commercial aviation started in the U.S, therefore all specs, definitions and knowledge of the field was initially entirely communicated in English. 

Used to be that if you wanted really advanced books on chess, the only true available source of advanced analysis and tactics were only available in Russian.  To some extent this is still true in Math.  The Russian textbooks used in a "lowly" technical college make the textbooks used in M.I.T look like kindergarten stuff (mathematical origami... <chuckle>)

Indeed. And actually it is more or less a blessing that there is some form of consistency there. Otherwise things could end up in utter chaos. Reminds me of a story that a friend once told me about German's using See and Meer which seem to mean the exact opposite in the Dutch language.

I already have issues when code emits their output (errors) in native tongue. No matter the language it is always seem like a tongue in cheek to me when it is not in English (some English terminology is almost impossible to translate to a native language).

Though, I mentioned AI because no matter how much I personally despise it, it seem to be staying with us and governments and businesses (in their haste to keep up with the current/latest  buzz) keep hopping on the bandwagon not realizing their heritage and go for the quickest/fastest/cheapest solution(s). It would be a shame if that was to be dealt the same fate as your examples (mind, not the terminology and usage but the language used to train the models itself). As per your examples the models will already be riddled with non native speakers terminology).

I understand why you mentioned your examples because the normal flow of things would be for the most common dominator to take precedence and since (at least) programming constructs are already riddled with English language and terminology it would only be logical.

[Dzandaa]

Hi,

I speak French, but as a programmer analyst (now retired) I always had to understand English. All my computers are installed in English and my internet searches are also in English.
I may not always write correctly in English, but the important thing is to understand the meaning of a sentence, right?

B->

[marcov]

Reminds me of a story that a friend once told me about German's using See and Meer which seem to mean the exact opposite in the Dutch language.

See can mean both in German, depending on gender.  The Northsea is die Nordsee.  But the Mediterranean Sea is Mittelmeer. Consistency is king :-)

[Zvoni]

*snip* but the important thing is to understand the meaning of a sentence, right?

Which means, that dutch language disqualifies itself for ever being used in a programming language.... 

[Thaddy]

*snip* but the important thing is to understand the meaning of a sentence, right?

Which means, that dutch language disqualifies itself for ever being used in a programming language.... 

Which is not true, I wrote NederPascal:
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,36887.msg246265.html#msg246265
 

On a side note: the origin of Python can be derived from several programming languages developed at the University of Amsterdam, and some of these ancestors were in... Dutch.

[Martin_fr]

See can mean both in German, depending on gender.  The Northsea is die Nordsee.  But the Mediterranean Sea is Mittelmeer. Consistency is king :-)

But then the difference between "See" (lake) and "See" (sea) is not as extreme as the difference between pond an ocean. And yet "over the pond"...

[Thaddy]

Yes, you will have to swap "meer" meaning sea, and "see"meaning lake, go figure. Annoying for Brits, Belgians and Dutch.
But then an American pretending speaking or, God forbid, writing English is also something that explains truth in a rather liberal manner......, although the language is colourful.
Yes, Afrikaans is also Dutch... It actually is: archaic Dutch and just as colourful.

[Dzandaa]

And in French, we have
"temps" meaning "time" and also "weather"

B->

[Zvoni]

I'm croatian, and proud of it.

But, believe me, you never want to see "croatianized" english (or german.... or any other language for that matter)....

because you'd get first place in the annual "WTF"-contest (who can swear WTF the most in a single year)

I'll give you a hint why: croatian language is spoken as it is written, and it is written as it is spoken

[Thaddy]

And in French, we have
"temps" meaning "time" and also "weather"

B->

Careful. Americans can claim everything.
In Louisiana, they claim this is English: "Let the bons temps roulez", where they mix up Cajun French with their own dialect of English.

[Thaddy]

I can create a new proper English language taking into  account writing macro's for the likes of:
Colour (British) vs Color (American)
French fries (American) vs. chips (British) The Americans have their country wrong: Belgium fries would be acceptable.
Cotton candy (American) vs. candyfloss (British)
Apartment (American) vs. flat (British)
Garbage (American) vs. rubbish (British)
Cookie (American) vs. biscuit (British)
Green thumb (American) vs. green fingers (British)
Parking lot (American) vs. car park (British)
Pants (American) vs. trousers (British)
Windshield (American) vs. windscreen (British)
Bonnet (British) vs. hood (American) (referring to the front part of a car)
Lift (British) vs. elevator (American)
Torch (British) vs. flashlight (American)
Banger (British) vs. sausage (American)
Sausage (British) vs Fat(American) meaning overweight person or animal.
Nappy (British) vs. diaper (American)
Petrol (British) vs. gasoline (American)
Football(British) vs Soccer (American)?
Football(American) vs American football(British)

But this is only a small subset.....


I guess British programmers have to take American English as a second language.

[marcov]

But then the difference between "See" (lake) and "See" (sea) is not as extreme as the difference between pond an ocean. And yet "over the pond"...

But iirc the pond thing is a literary hyperbole from fairly recent times, while apparently early Germans couldn't simply test for salt ;-)

[Thaddy]

No, Marco,
as far I remember the etymology points to a 16th or 17th century marine expression that jokingly referred to the atlantic ocean as being merely a pond which means a small lake. It refers to both Dutch and English, as the major western seafaring nations of the time. You can check this but I am almost sure I am right. (Thx to my Jesuit education, they loved silly facts which you can't ever - not can never - get out of your head)

[Martin_fr]

while apparently early Germans couldn't simply test for salt ;-)

Maybe someone called it (it = the lake) see, and the others took it with a grain of salt.