IRC Don't Hang Out

[dftxland]

Hello,

    I'm a new member to this forum and it's my first post.  I felt compelled to get an account to post my experience on IRC. I had a poor experience on the #fpc channel of libera.chat IRC network, and I thought that my experience would be of interest to others.  I've seen other forum posts where a certain person was promoting the use of IRC and urging people to join.  So I joined the channels #fpc , #lazarous , and #pascal and I've been hanging out on them for awhile. On Saturday, I got banned from #fpc because I was simply hanging out. NOTE: I have never sent any rude or disparaging messages.
   
TLDR;
    - #fpc operator kicks me from the channel stating that I was a bot.
    - I direct messaged the #fpc operator (fpc_op) informing them that I was not a bot.
    - fpc_op thought it was necessary to quiz me on my pascal skills and things went sour from there.
   
Here's the log from the main #fpc channel, and the direct messages that I had with one of the operators of #fpc.  I've changed my username to genuser and their username to fpc_op in the chatlogs, as I'm not trying to DOX anyone.

Messages from main #fpc channel

Jan 14 15:50:00 <fpc_op>        Hi everyone
Jan 14 16:00:02 <fpc_op>        Hi genuser are you new to #fpc?
Jan 14 16:08:51 *       ChanServ gives channel operator status to fpc_op
Jan 14 16:09:48 *       fpc_op sets ban on $a:genuser
Jan 14 16:10:16 *       You have been kicked from #fpc by fpc_op (sorry bots are not allowed here without permission)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 14 16:10:16 2023

Direct messages from/to #fpc channel operator - fpc_op
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 14 16:02:51 2023

[fpc_op has address xxxx.yyyy.zzzz.com]
Jan 14 16:02:51 <fpc_op>        Hi I’m checking channel for bots if you aren’t a bot please respond
Jan 14 16:24:51 <genuser>        Err why did I get banned from #fpc?  I'm not a bot
Jan 14 17:17:20 <fpc_op>        How long have you been using fpc? You were not responding when I talked to you
Jan 14 17:18:09 <fpc_op>        Who are you on forums?
Jan 14 17:20:24 <genuser>        well looking back at the chat logs. I was only given 8 minutes to respond :-( I'm not registered on the forums. Used pascal for ages .. now just coming back to it
Jan 14 17:21:41 <fpc_op>        How would I display every other letter in English alphabet using pascal?
Jan 14 17:22:23 <fpc_op>        That is a simple newbie question can you answer it?
Jan 14 18:17:49 <genuser>        something like this would work.
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>        program printodd;
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>        var
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>           a: integer;
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>        begin
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>           for a := 97  to 122 do
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>           begin
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>              if not odd(a) then
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>                  writeln('alphabet: ', chr(a));
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>           end;
Jan 14 18:17:51 <genuser>        end.
Jan 15 15:49:47 <fpc_op>        That might work but there are more robust ways to do it.
Jan 15 15:50:45 <fpc_op>        Also googling doesn’t count for knowing pascal:) let’s try another question in real time
Jan 15 15:53:17 <fpc_op>        Let me know when you come back
Jan 15 17:35:06 <genuser>        Well sorry I dont' measure up to your expectations :-(  I simply wanted to hang out on the channel and observe. I've never disparaged or made rude comments. Still don't understand why the ban stayed in effect even after I made it apparent that I was not a bot. Maybe you should make this channel an invite only channel as its obviously not open to everyone. Anyways, sorry that I've somehow offended you by
Jan 15 17:35:06 <genuser>        not talking on this channel. Bye.
Jan 15 17:36:29 <fpc_op>        It’s a support channel for people who use pascal. Can I ask what compelled you to want to lurk there?
Jan 15 17:38:59 <genuser>        I used pascal years ago and was interested in relearning it.
Jan 15 17:39:47 <fpc_op>        Well you are welcome to use the resources in #pascal topic
Jan 15 17:40:37 <fpc_op>        Please let me know when you have learned pascal:)
Jan 15 17:41:22 <fpc_op>        You can’t learn pascal by lurking in a channel doing nothing
Jan 15 17:43:04 <fpc_op>        After you learn pascal it will not take almost an hour to answer a beginner level pascal question
Jan 15 17:43:40 <genuser>        we obviously have different oppions on the use of irc and how we can use it. Anyways good luck with your pursuits.
Jan 15 17:49:02 <fpc_op>        So are you saying that you aren’t interested enough in pascal to even bother learning it?
Jan 15 17:51:04 <fpc_op>        I’m sorry for assuming you would be interested in channel topic...
Jan 15 17:52:32 <genuser>        I never said that all. I will continue with using fpc as the compiler but I'll just asking anything that is fpc specific on discord
Jan 15 17:55:19 <fpc_op>        Your story is not very coherent
Jan 15 17:57:59 <fpc_op>        If you are using fpc by all means use forums to get help
Jan 15 18:33:32 <fpc_op>        How do you use fpc without knowing pascal?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 15 19:32:33 2023

I elected to ignore the last three direct messages to me as I knew that the conversation was dead and nothing positive was going to come from it.

Note the topic for the #fpc channel is the following -   
    "Official channel for people who use and/or develop the Free Pascal Compiler | https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org | Website for Lazarus IDE using FPC is  https://www.lazarus-ide.org | For code pastes please use https://pastebin.mozilla.org or http://paste.debian.net  |  Other related channels -> #lazarus &  #pascal https://wiki.freepascal.org/Operating_Systems_written_in_FPC"

As I pointed out in the above messages, I used pascal years ago and was interested in relearning it using the fpc compiler. I thought that #fpc was yet another place that I could observe and learn.  Given the above conversation, I learned that would not be happening. I've hung out in many other IRC channels and learned things without having to be an active conversationalist.

I looked up the channel operators for #pascal and #lazarous and discovered that fpc_op was an operator on those channels also. I did not wish to have a repeat in those channels, so I have left #pascal and #lazarous channels and will not be returning.

I hear that there is an active discord channel for pascal and fpc, so I may hang out there.

If you decide to join these channels on libera.chat be forewarned that you may be kicked and banned from the channel for doing nothing wrong. On the forums, I see that fpc_op has posted many times about getting people to use irc which has gotten several people annoyed.  It is very ironic that fpc_op promotes irc in the forums and proceeds to ban people for no good reason.  I will not be recommending anyone use liber.chat irc for fpc and lazarous.
Thanks for reading and happy coding.
D.

[GetMem]

What are you doing Joanna? Harassing innocent IRC users?

Jan 15 17:36:29 <fpc_op>        It’s a support channel for people who use pascal. Can I ask what compelled you to want to lurk there?
Jan 15 17:38:59 <genuser>        I used pascal years ago and was interested in relearning it.
Jan 15 17:39:47 <fpc_op>        Well you are welcome to use the resources in #pascal topic
Jan 15 17:40:37 <fpc_op>        Please let me know when you have learned pascal:)
Jan 15 17:41:22 <fpc_op>        You can’t learn pascal by lurking in a channel doing nothing
Jan 15 17:43:04 <fpc_op>        After you learn pascal it will not take almost an hour to answer a beginner level pascal question

I knew that something is off about you, but this is downright cuckoo. 

@dftxland
The correct answer:

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1. var
2.   ch: char;
3. begin
4.   for ch in ['a'..'z'] do
5.     if ord(ch) mod 2 = 0 then
6.       writeln(ch);
7. end;

So next time you can pass as a pascal user, you lurking trickster. 

[Bogen85]

What are you doing Joanna? Harassing innocent IRC users?
...

I knew that something is off about you, but this is downright cuckoo. 

This behavior by Joanna has been going on for years.

And I've called her out on it many times. Privately and on this Forum.

As did others in this topic: https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,61781.0.html

[Bart]

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1.   if ord(ch) mod 2 = 0 then
2.  

Even more correct:

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1.   if not odd(ord(ch)) then ...

Bart

[Martin_fr]

Well, in any case welcome to the forum.

I don't deal with the IRC myself at all, so can't comment on that. Let's see if one of the other Admins can chip in.

In any case, here on the forum you are free to be a reader or author at whatever level suits you.

[Bogen85]

As I pointed out in the above messages, I used pascal years ago and was interested in relearning it using the fpc compiler. I thought that #fpc was yet another place that I could observe and learn.

As was the same for me a few years back.

Given the above conversation, I learned that would not be happening. I've hung out in many other IRC channels and learned things without having to be an active conversationalist.

Same here. I've hung out many IRC channels for a long time in the past learning things, but rarely saying things.

I hear that there is an active discord channel for pascal and fpc, so I may hang out there.

There is, and it is a very warm, friendly, and helpful place for pascal, FPC, and Lazarus help and general chat about those subjects, Delphi included.

If you decide to join these channels on libera.chat be forewarned that you may be kicked and banned from the channel for doing nothing wrong. On the forums, I see that fpc_op has posted many times about getting people to use irc which has gotten several people annoyed.  It is very ironic that fpc_op promotes irc in the forums and proceeds to ban people for no good reason.  I will not be recommending anyone use liber.chat irc for fpc and lazarous.
Thanks for reading and happy coding.

Thanks for coming forward to warn about the current state of the pascal related IRC on Libera.

What you are saying needs to be heard and taken seriously for any wanting to promote positive friendly communication models for Pascal, especially for Free Pascal and Lazarus, especially for those who want to use IRC.

[KodeZwerg]

Jan 14 17:21:41 <fpc_op>        How would I display every other letter in English alphabet using pascal?

I would need over one hour to understand what that question mean lol
"every other letter" wtf... makes in my language as much sense as trying to teach a fish to speak.

Anyway, welcome D, here you not need to quiz anything after registration  ...even there I felt like I am absolute stupido  since that registration quiz wanted strange stuff from me lol
...times can be hard when mother-language ain't english 

[Kays]

[…] On Saturday, I got banned from #fpc because I was simply hanging out. NOTE: I have never sent any rude or disparaging messages. […]

That’s ridiculous. It’s common netiquette to first observe a forum, learn the customs, before participating actively. Nothing wrong with that.

The correct answer:

Too complicated.

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1. program everyOtherLetterOfAlphabet(output);
2. begin
3.         writeLn('BDFHJLNPRTVXZ')
4. end.

[…] here you not need to quiz anything after registration […] ..even there I felt like I am absolute stupido […] since that registration quiz wanted strange stuff from me lol
...times can be hard when mother-language ain't english

I agree. The verification procedure is ludicrously difficult. Beside the standard decipher-letters-captcha I get, for example

• In the proverb, what does the pot call the kettle? (Hint: Answer is a color):
• Who travels in a tardis? The ______ (6 letters):
• One .... to rule them all?:

I seriously do not know any answer. No wonder Pascal users are in decline; if it’s too difficult to join the forum.

[Bogen85]

[…] here you not need to quiz anything after registration […] ..even there I felt like I am absolute stupido […] since that registration quiz wanted strange stuff from me lol
...times can be hard when mother-language ain't english

I agree. The verification procedure is ludicrously difficult.

Difficulty aside, it in and of itself is insanely ludicrous, and it is very insulting to experienced programmers who have used pascal in the past.

Being forced to answer questions like those just to hang out in an IRC channel is demeaning.

No experienced programmer, especially ones were a greater breadth of programming knowledge than the quizzer, should have to forced to put up with such nonsense, just to hang out and observe and maybe even eventually actually participate actively in an IRC channel.

[dbannon]

.....
I agree. The verification procedure is ludicrously difficult. Beside the standard decipher-letters-captcha I get, for example

• In the proverb, what does the pot call the kettle? (Hint: Answer is a color):
• Who travels in a tardis? The ______ (6 letters):
• One .... to rule them all?:

I seriously do not know any answer. No wonder Pascal users are in decline; if it’s too difficult to join the forum.

Wow, are you saying they are questions used when joining this forum ? While I can answer them, I would say they are very culture specific and that is a bad thing IMHO. I  guess its getting harder and harder to tell the difference between people and bots. Harder Pascal specific questions would not be acceptable because we want to encourage new comers, so, just what test should be applied ? Thats a serious question.

And I vote for Getmem's answer for the IRC question !

every other letter in English alphabet

What a rubbish question, sloppy wording like that is not worthy of a Pascal programmer.

Davo

[Bogen85]

[…] On Saturday, I got banned from #fpc because I was simply hanging out. NOTE: I have never sent any rude or disparaging messages. […]

That’s ridiculous. It’s common netiquette to first observe a forum, learn the customs, before participating actively. Nothing wrong with that.

 

That should not be needed to said. Every who has used computers since IRC was at the height of its popularity should know common netiquette like this.

That it is needed to be said highlights the issues involved here...

Of course it is ridiculous to punish those who are practicing good netiquette. 

[Bogen85]

.....
I agree. The verification procedure is ludicrously difficult. Beside the standard decipher-letters-captcha I get, for example

• In the proverb, what does the pot call the kettle? (Hint: Answer is a color):
• Who travels in a tardis? The ______ (6 letters):
• One .... to rule them all?:

I seriously do not know any answer. No wonder Pascal users are in decline; if it’s too difficult to join the forum.

Wow, are you saying they are questions used when joining this forum ? While I can answer them, I would say they are very culture specific and that is a bad thing IMHO. I  guess its getting harder and harder to tell the difference between people and bots. Harder Pascal specific questions would not be acceptable because we want to encourage new comers, so, just what test should be applied ? Thats a serious question.

Well, this case, this forum is the Pascal related IRC channels (which are a communications forum).
(at least the sentiment of the above seems to be more related to those who want to use Pascal related IRC channels on Libera.

Since I joined the Lazarus forum a few years back I don't know its current screening methods...

And I vote for Getmem's answer for the IRC question !

every other letter in English alphabet

What a rubbish question, sloppy wording like that is not worthy of a Pascal programmer.

Agreed...

[440bx]

IRC and other real time avenues of obtaining "information" strike me as avenues to get "instant gratification".

In a medium like this forum, if someone asks a complex question, there is a chance that someone will take the time to figure out a reasonably solid potential answer.  In "real time" systems (chatty systems), it is much too common for someone who doesn't have a clue but, is obviously attention starved, to post an inane reply which often causes replies stating that is a poor answer which causes the original question to be carried out in the scrolling wind.

I miss the days when there were no cell phones.  If someone wanted something, they left a message and they got your attention when you had it to give.  Now, people are texting/talking while driving or doing other activities where divided attention can easily become a source of problems.

As far as any question that may be required to join IRC, my answer is "niet".

[sketch]

Too complicated.

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]

1. program everyOtherLetterOfAlphabet(output);
2. begin
3.         writeLn('BDFHJLNPRTVXZ')
4. end.

ROFLMAO

[PierceNg]

Note the topic for the #fpc channel is the following -   
    "Official channel for people who use and/or develop the Free Pascal Compiler | https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org | Website for Lazarus IDE using FPC is  https://www.lazarus-ide.org | For code pastes please use https://pastebin.mozilla.org or http://paste.debian.net  |  Other related channels -> #lazarus &  #pascal https://wiki.freepascal.org/Operating_Systems_written_in_FPC"

Official channel eh. With friends like the channel operator as gatekeeper, Pascal doesn't need enemies.