Recent

Author Topic: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position  (Read 6604 times)

Gald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Project Inspector:

1- Lazarus Main Window (left) has very small icons, even small than Delphi (by 2 pixels I guess) and it's ok. But the Project Inspector Window, Has very BIG icons for no reason. In Linux, the difference is even more.

2- Add, Remove, Options and Help don't even need captions.

3- This big "Help" button is completely useless.

4- Open File button can be accessed by double click or left-click menu.

5- Option on left click menu to show the file/project in Explorer/Directory, by opening Windows Explorer, Nautilus, etc.

6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)?

Components Window:

7- A way to close these tabs. E.g. if I want to close "List" and "Inheritance",  only "Palette" is open, but with no Tabs in this Window, resulting in more space.

8- Autocollapse group of components when opening another. If someone will open another component group, is because this person will use a component that is not in the previews group. So, auto-close is the better solution than getting a big scrollbar to search the "^" symbol and close it manually.

9- The footer with only the CheckBox "Keep open" can be at the top as a small icon side by side to the mouse (Selection Tool) or even with the filter button. No space? Read the 9 below.

10-  The text "Find" on the left of the TEdit "(Filter)" is useless, it can be removed once the Default text of TEdit says everything, resulting in more space.

11- The filter can be clear automatically on collapse/expand components group.

Ps: Be careful, the embarcadero's i don't like guy can be there!
Lazarus 2.0.12 r64642 FPC 3.2.0 x86_64-win64-win32/win64/Manjaro KDE 21
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor 3.50 GHz / 8,00 GB RAM / GTX 1500 TI / 2TB M.2 NVMe

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8101
  • Debugger - SynEdit - and more
    • wiki
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2022, 01:39:47 pm »
2- Add, Remove, Options and Help don't even need captions.
IMHO, that needs to be adjusted on a larger scale.
Currently some toolbars in the IDE have captions. Others are icon only.

There should be a global setting to enable/disable captions on toolbars (icon, text or both).
Maybe the "main bar" - "coolbar", or the "editor toolbar" (if package is installed) can have their own settings.
But all other toolbars should follow.

As for "mixed captions" (Within a single toolbar, some buttons with and others without): I don't like the idea. (but let's see what others think).
So of course, buttons with no icon will always have a caption...

Quote
3- This big "Help" button is completely useless.
Why?

It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed.

If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help.

Quote
4- Open File button can be accessed by double click or left-click menu.
What exactly is the issue? What should happen?

Besides that "double-click" does not show the "button" (actually context menu). It opens the file directly. But that is intended.

Quote
5- Option on left click menu to show the file/project in Explorer/Directory, by opening Windows Explorer, Nautilus, etc.
Nice idea.

IHMO: Merge-Request / Patches are welcome.

Quote
6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)?
Yes, well not sure.
Files can be in (sub-)directories. Then the (relative) path is show in the treeview. So this is the filename (It also has the file extension), not the UnitName.

Though I do see the appeal of showing the UnitName. Or both...

Not sure how to solve, or what others may find acceptable. There are many possible ways
  incl/unitname.pp
  unitname.pp (incl/)
  UnitName (incl/unitname.pp)


Quote
9- The footer with only the CheckBox "Keep open" can be at the top as a small icon side by side to the mouse (Selection Tool) or even with the filter button. No space? Read the 9 below.

10-  The text "Find" on the left of the TEdit "(Filter)" is useless, it can be removed once the Default text of TEdit says everything, resulting in more space.

IHMO: Merge-Request / Patches are welcome.


Not sure about your other ideas...
Probably need to be optional. In my experience there are always people who like the current way (or at least like the current way better...)

PascalDragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4318
  • Compiler Developer
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2022, 01:57:21 pm »
6- I understand that Lazarus needs to save files on lowercase names, but if the Source Editor can use the real name, the same applies to the TreeView. Why not put in the TreeView the name that is in the first line of the file (unit #GetThisName / program #GetThisName)?

Two points:
  • The tree vie  shows the files, and not only the units belonging to the project, thus it makes no sense to make an exception for Pascal units (not to mention that using the right compiler switch the name of a unit can be different from the filename (aside from casing))
  • Your suggestion of using the first line is too simplistic: many units have a license header at the top and the unit name can also be in an include file (yes, there exist units that do that)

Gald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Lazarus 2.0.12 r64642 FPC 3.2.0 x86_64-win64-win32/win64/Manjaro KDE 21
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor 3.50 GHz / 8,00 GB RAM / GTX 1500 TI / 2TB M.2 NVMe

dsiders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2022, 06:46:10 pm »
Quote
3- This big "Help" button is completely useless.
Why?

It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed.

If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help.

I just tried it on 2.0.12, 2.2.0RC2, and main (nee trunk). For Windows, the Help button does nothing in all 3 versions.
Preview Lazarus 2.3.0 documentation at: https://dsiders.gitlab.io/lazdocsnext

wp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9923
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2022, 06:50:17 pm »
Probably need to be optional. In my experience there are always people who like the current way (or at least like the current way better...)
Absolutely. Minimalistic layouts as proposed can be extremely frustrating...

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8101
  • Debugger - SynEdit - and more
    • wiki
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2022, 06:58:59 pm »
Quote
3- This big "Help" button is completely useless.
Why?

It seems to work here. I have not checked if the help page needs updating, but that could be fixed.

If desired, someone could implement and submit a merge-request (or patch) for offline help.

I just tried it on 2.0.12, 2.2.0RC2, and main (nee trunk). For Windows, the Help button does nothing in all 3 versions.

Both my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser.
To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector".

There are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved).

If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again?



dsiders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2022, 07:39:51 pm »
Both my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser.
To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector".

Yes, using the Project Inspector.

There are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved).
If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again?

I had not tested with 2.2 because I did not know the files were publicly available. If it is a PCP issue, it is the same issue for 3 different PCP environments. I'll get the release files and try later this evening.
Preview Lazarus 2.3.0 documentation at: https://dsiders.gitlab.io/lazdocsnext

Gald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2022, 07:50:01 pm »
About the Help button, is because there is another help on MainMenu.
Look to the image related below.
Lazarus 2.0.12 r64642 FPC 3.2.0 x86_64-win64-win32/win64/Manjaro KDE 21
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor 3.50 GHz / 8,00 GB RAM / GTX 1500 TI / 2TB M.2 NVMe

dsiders

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2022, 07:55:15 pm »
Both my "git main" and the official Release 2.2 (via installer from sourceforge) open a browser.
To be sure: This is about the "help" toolbutton in the "project inspector".

Yes, using the Project Inspector.

There are some configurations for the help system (I am not familiar with them, so can't guess which could be involved).
If you temporarily remove your primary-conf-dir (to get a fresh config / my 2.2 had a fresh conf) and then try again?

I had not tested with 2.2 because I did not know the files were publicly available. If it is a PCP issue, it is the same issue for 3 different PCP environments. I'll get the 2.2.0 release files and try later this evening.

The files cannot be downloaded (yet) from SourceForge. It shows a file but it cannot be downloaded. I tried the 64-bit installer. In addition, the readme file under 2.2.0 says it is a "Release Candidate".

I'll try again later.
Preview Lazarus 2.3.0 documentation at: https://dsiders.gitlab.io/lazdocsnext

Gald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2022, 08:05:08 pm »
Absolutely. Minimalistic layouts as proposed can be extremely frustrating...

I agree with you, but in this particular case, it does not apply.
Look, certain icons are Universal!

Minus icon, means minus/remove in America, Africa, North Korea, and the rest of the World.

Minus, Plus/Add, ? (Help) and Tools/Gear.
Both, a 3yo child and a 90yo great-grandfather know the meaning of these buttons.

Precisely, a programmer you do too!
Lazarus 2.0.12 r64642 FPC 3.2.0 x86_64-win64-win32/win64/Manjaro KDE 21
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor 3.50 GHz / 8,00 GB RAM / GTX 1500 TI / 2TB M.2 NVMe

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8101
  • Debugger - SynEdit - and more
    • wiki
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2022, 08:42:29 pm »
About the Help button, is because there is another help on MainMenu.
Look to the image related below.

But the help button (if working) goes directly to:
https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Project_Inspector

So this is context sensitive.

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8101
  • Debugger - SynEdit - and more
    • wiki
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2022, 08:48:45 pm »
The files cannot be downloaded (yet) from SourceForge. It shows a file but it cannot be downloaded. I tried the 64-bit installer. In addition, the readme file under 2.2.0 says it is a "Release Candidate".

Fixed the Readme.

Sourceforge sometimes takes a bit of time before the links work.
Just try again.

Martin_fr

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8101
  • Debugger - SynEdit - and more
    • wiki
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2022, 09:01:44 pm »
Minus icon, means minus/remove in America, Africa, North Korea, and the rest of the World.

- Of course there is the minus in the source-editor to fold code. The code isn't actually removed.
- Also having text, means extra space. In case your mouse motion isn't that smooth.
- And if other Buttons have the text, buttons without text will have that odd empty space beneath them. (Because the height of the toolbar, is determined by the tallest button)
- Not everyone has perfect vision. While the IDE sadly lacks accessibility in many places, this in no reason to further reduce it. People relaying on a screen reader may benefit from the text.
....

Also some of us grew up in front of a 40x25 screen. Not having text just makes us melancholic. ;) ;)




As I said an option would be ok, if contributed.

And if you don't need text, switch it off for all buttons (for rare cases where you would be lost, there still will be the hint)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 09:03:41 pm by Martin_fr »

Gald

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Some small changes in the Interface I.E. Icons and Button position
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2022, 09:25:37 pm »
But the help button (if working) goes directly to:
https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Project_Inspector
So this is context-sensitive.

What about these?

https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Object_Inspector
https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Component_Palette
https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/source_code_editor

There are no big buttons to these ones. Users may feel insecure, or not?

But now, think with me:

Sort Files Alphabetically and Show Directory Hierarchy aren't the kind of buttons that people are used to it. Right?
While EVERYBODY knows what an Options button is.

Thinking on accessibility way, these buttons don't have captions, but the button that doesn't need has one!

But let's get even more further: How many people have trouble with the fact that the Show Directory Hierarchy button doesn't have a caption?
It's probably a number close to ZERO.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 09:28:23 pm by Gald »
Lazarus 2.0.12 r64642 FPC 3.2.0 x86_64-win64-win32/win64/Manjaro KDE 21
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X Quad-Core Processor 3.50 GHz / 8,00 GB RAM / GTX 1500 TI / 2TB M.2 NVMe

 

TinyPortal © 2005-2018