Heat from FreeBasic

[440bx]

No. You're very wrong.
When you kick run, any ide out there on linux will spawn a terminal emulator with the output app feed to it for you to see the result. Laz didn't do that but launch it app itself, without an terminal emulator it will show nothing. It's abnormal. It's laz's stupidity.
<snip>
Too easy to do. But laz dev don't do and keep ignorant about it.

If by "laz" you mean Lazarus, being a graphical application it doesn't really have a reason to create a console/terminal. 

If your command of the English language matched your ability to complain, it would be really easy to understand your posts.  Maybe it's a "terminal" problem too, wrong code page.

Be humble about what you don't know sir. Don't be BS 

You ask other people to be humble to compensate for your failure to be humble.  The angry face is a nice touch.

[Martin_fr]

While actually not my battle to fight, let me none the less pitch in and express that may it be that his "skill in" or "command over" the English language is not a match to that of a native speaker, it should be acknowledged at the same time that as it is a 2nd language to him he uses it quite well. In any case his English is better than what appears to be his confidence in it.

That said, he is right about the missing terminal. An IDE should bring together the tools needed for development. Since "Laz" has a "Simple Program" project type for command line apps, "Laz" should have the tools to develop such. So it can be said, and might be expected that "Laz" should provide for such an app being debugged in an environment suitable for the task. Terminal emulation - provided either by a terminal or the IDE itself - in this context is neither far fetched, nor to be deemed unexpected.

As for the use of the red colored smileys, I have more than once observed that they do no good at all. Their abandonment - if hypothetically implemented - might be an not half (British usage) good idea.

[440bx]

So it can be said, and might be expected that "Laz" should provide for such an app being debugged in an environment suitable for the task. Terminal emulation - provided either by a terminal or the IDE itself - in this context is neither far fetched, nor to be deemed unexpected.

Martin, there is a difference between what one wants and what one can expect.  There are a lot of things I'd like FPC/Lazarus to have/do but, I cannot expect either one to have them.  Maybe some of these things will be implemented in the future but, as you have experienced first hand, those things take time and effort and, they cannot be done all at once therefore, they can rarely be expected.  In addition to that, getting red-faced about it doesn't solve any problems.

As for the use of the red colored smileys, I have more than once observed that they do no good at all.

They do provide some entertainment to the sadists 

[Martin_fr]

So it can be said, and might be expected that "Laz" should provide for such an app being debugged in an environment suitable for the task. Terminal emulation - provided either by a terminal or the IDE itself - in this context is neither far fetched, nor to be deemed unexpected.

Martin, there is a difference between what one wants and what one can expect.  There are a lot of things I'd like FPC/Lazarus to have/do but, I cannot expect either one to have them. 

For starters there is a difference between ones expectations, and their fulfilment. (Though this is becoming exceptionally philosophical)
I myself steadily experience how expectations of mine are not being met. Or worse were I fail to meet them myself. (sometimes, I push for more than I can deliver in the end)

And also note, that I said "might be expected", which indicates the subjunctive mood. It can happen that it is expected. That in itself is not unreasonable. Of course upon learning the void of the expectation one should accept it with grace.

Independent of such considerations, it is the right of any person or individual to lobby for what they desire. Known may it be that not all efforts of lobbying are fruitful, the mere endeavour is not contemptible.

Of course some statements of his, such as "It's laz's stupidity" are - if literally taken - not true. Personally I consider them a mixture of the heat of the discussion and the probable lack of vocabulary to express it in a more refined way. With this in mind, I do not take it as an affront against the project or anyone connected to it.

[440bx]

it is the right of any person or individual to lobby for what they desire.

you probably know already that, I strongly agree that everyone has the right to lobby for what they desire.

Of course some statements of his, such as "It's laz's stupidity" are - if literally taken - not true. Personally I consider them a mixture of the heat of the discussion and the probable lack of vocabulary to express it in a more refined way. With this in mind, I do not take it as an affront against the project or anyone connected to it.

It's a bit more difficult to take accusations of stupidity, which one could brush off as second-language-mishaps when they are not accompanied by angry faces, it's difficult to brush that off to "second typing".

Personally, second language or not, IMO, he "lobbied" a little too hard.

[garlar27]

In my case, the Lazarus IDE is the most productive IDE I've tried. I also used Eclipse for a short time few years ago and for what I remember it was pretty fine but it was too freaking slow on my old PC.

In my job we use Lazarus professionally (since 2007) and we are happy with the results (we made a server, libraries, Daemons/Services, Apache modules and desktop applications. All are fast and reliable working under Linux (ubunto, slackware, and a few more I don't know, since I'm not the one who installs the product) and Windows (of many "flavors").

Don´t know if this can help but you can look at these links:
   http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since (I think there are some implemented features that are missing on that page)
   http://wiki.freepascal.org/Anchor_Docking  also listed in "New IDE features since" (I use anchordockingdsgn on my IDE)
   There's Sparta or FreeSparta one window IDE. Can't find the link.
   http://wiki.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Code_Templates also listed in "New IDE features since"
   In the menu "Tools/Options" there are a lot of useful configurations. specially on the "Editor" and "Codetools" branches

@giahung1997
Different programing languages have a different approach to do the exact same thing, it is like to learn a foreign language.
If something is frustrating you, please take your time and:

• Put your problem on context to limit our responses to what you need. Usually a contextless question gives a "wild forest" of useless answer, since the context makes an answer suitable but on a different one it doesn't.
  
• Graphical problems are better explained with a couple of screenshots pointing to the points of interest (how it is and how you expect it to be) and a short explanation.
  
• Write what you wish to do and if you don't know how to do it "the Lazarus/FPC way", or what you did so far and the result you get
  
• But first search the Forum and the Wiki maybe someone already got an answer for the same problem
  

Yes, the hardest part is to ask a Question. Answer is by far the easyest part (that told me a Pedagogy teacher).

[Martin_fr]

Don´t know if this can help but you can look at these links:

And http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_IDE_Tools

Even after years of using the IDE you might find something that you hadn't known.

[VTwin]

Even after years of using the IDE you might find something that you hadn't known.

I have been using Lazarus for years, and still learn new things about both Lazarus and FPC regularly. It is a productive environment for beginners, but has amazing power and depth of features for professionals.

[giahung1997]

I used procedural freebasic only. After checked it OOP I would say I'm wrong 

FB has so much IDEs but most of them abandoned, only three keep going: WinFBE, PoseidonFB, VisualFBE. Community efforts is scattered, they never think about joining force to make something like Lazarus. There are many gui libraries only because there is no LCL, most of them are wrapper over winapi or porting existing libraries like gtk3, fltk... FB is more closer to C so generating such bindings is more easier than Pascal. The fact why Free Pascal doesn't have that amount of gui libraries because it has the LCL   

FB OOP style is not my taste. I don't say it not good but simply not my taste. I come from Java/Xtend/Fantom so I used to their OOP. Even Object Pascal I don't like and mostly use procedural programming 

[Martin_fr]

The fact why Free Pascal doesn't have that amount of gui libraries because it has the LCL 

And that is something sad? (sad smiley)

Anyway if you want more gui libraries, check out FpGui and MseIde/MseGui. They are both build on freepascal, and both offer alternatives to the LCL

[marcov]

I used procedural freebasic only. After checked it OOP I would say I'm wrong 

FB has so much IDEs but most of them abandoned, only three keep going: WinFBE, PoseidonFB, VisualFBE. Community efforts is scattered, they never think about joining force to make something like Lazarus. There are many gui libraries only because there is no LCL, most of them are wrapper over winapi or porting existing libraries like gtk3, fltk... FB is more closer to C so generating such bindings is more easier than Pascal. The fact why Free Pascal doesn't have that amount of gui libraries because it has the LCL 

FPC does have them. It had QT,FLTK, wxwidgets, gtk1,gtk2 (and various wrappers like fpgtk) , fpgui,  kcl and whatever in the 2000-2005 era. However as soon as LCL was usable on both Linux and Windows, the smaller efforts started to get less popular, but if you search thoroughly you can probably find the headers.

Not all died, fpgui is still somewhat maintained, and also MSEGUI was maintained till the author passed away late last year (and they are still regrouping, too early to tell), and KOL also lasted longer than most, maybe because the latter was also for Delphi.

Like FB gui now, the more serious users of such efforts are often using them for PLC-HMI, POS and other one-application(kiosk) purposes.

Also, LCL using native widgets leaves room for at least one good owner drawn library, so that users have something to choose.

FB OOP style is not my taste. I don't say it not good but simply not my taste. I come from Java/Xtend/Fantom so I used to their OOP. Even Object Pascal I don't like and mostly use procedural programming 

Object Pascal and Java are not that different OO wise, except for the GC of course.

[giahung1997]

The fact why Free Pascal doesn't have that amount of gui libraries because it has the LCL 

And that is something sad? (sad smiley)

Anyway if you want more gui libraries, check out FpGui and MseIde/MseGui. They are both build on freepascal, and both offer alternatives to the LCL

  not Typing on phone sucks 

[giahung1997]

^marcov: Don't know mseide/msegui author passed away. The last time I tried it, uhm, it is not good (trying to be kind, don't ask me more details or I could be rude). I respect his effort to make some Lazarus alternative. Sometimes I think the sole purpose of FPC existent is Lazarus 

No. Object Pascal OOP is nothing like Java. On Java we don't have Nil and we use a completely different syntax.

[giahung1997]

^Martin: have a look at libvte so on Linux we could embedded a terminal emulator into the ide like geany or gedit does.

[marcov]

^marcov: Don't know mseide/msegui author passed away. The last time I tried it, uhm, it is not good (trying to be kind, don't ask me more details or I could be rude). I respect his effort to make some Lazarus alternative. Sometimes I think the sole purpose of FPC existent is Lazarus 

I sometimes think he tried to compete and do everything too much, and did not do enough to differentiate his offerings enough for goals that Lazarus didn't reach etc.

In that sense fpgui or kol are much more to the point.

No. Object Pascal OOP is nothing like Java. On Java we don't have Nil and we use a completely different syntax.

Syntax like NIL vs NULL yes, but the principles are the same. The big difference is of course the garbage collection.