Re: Popularity / SPLIT OFF -Re: Forum is so SLOOOW... Again!

[Martin_fr]

This topic was split off from https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,67708.0.html

[LV]

I think pascal needs a lot of help with public relations because everyone I encounter outside of this forum or chat channel seems to hate it.

Free Pascal and Lazarus are excellent products. Why aren't they popular? Let's look on the Internet. Who supports Python or the growing Rust or Kotlin. The answer speaks for itself: Google, Microsoft, Mozilla ... Who supports Free Pascal? The answer is enthusiasts

[Joanna]

It’s possible that the developers of fpc and Lazarus just want to create these things as a hobby for their own use and are nice enough to share them with people who want them. Maybe having a lot of users isn’t their goal.

[LV]

Thanks to the developers of FPC and Lazarus for their selfless work.

[dseligo]

Thanks to the developers of FPC and Lazarus for their selfless work.

+1

[Joanna]

Talk is cheap.
The best way to thank them is by helping them improve fpc.

[LV]

I am glad to help. But I'm afraid that my level of competence can only worsen the Free Pascal compiler  . I'm just expanding my horizons in programming 

[Joanna]

I'm afraid that my level of competence can only worsen the Free Pascal compiler 

Insults make a community look toxic and unappealing regardless of whom they are directed at. I’ve seen this behavior many times here in forums I am not sure if the accounts doing it are owned by the same person. It is a sabotage technique.

[440bx]

@Joanna,

I don't think he is insulting anyone.  He is simply stating that, in his opinion, his competence level is not high enough to make a positive contribution to FPC's development.

He is just making an honest assessment of his capabilities in that particular area.

[Joanna]

Hi 440bx I don’t remember if your native language is English . So I’ll elaborate..

I am glad to help. 

I’m not sure what he means by help here but my idea of help is reporting and fixing bugs, Adding new functionality, creating new apps using fpc and helping people struggling with problems with fpc. I have seen no evidence of him doing any of these activities.

But I'm afraid that my level of competence can only worsen the Free Pascal compiler 

Using the word “worsen” in same sentence as fpc compiler implies that the fpc compiler will be made worse than it already is. This is hardly a flattering thing to say about it is it?

Yes at first glance it might seem like he is being modest about his abilities and jokingly insulting himself. Either way his post doesn’t inspire anyone to want to use fpc. He is passive aggressive.

[440bx]

Hello Joanna,

It's quite evident that there are quite a few non-native English speakers participating in the forum.

I don't know if English is his native language or not but, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, that is, that the implications in the words he used were unintentional and just meant to state his inability to make a positive contribution in FPC's development.

Succinctly, I believe your analysis is correct but, I'm not convinced that he really meant to paint FPC as a deficient product.

[silvercoder70]

On forum slowness... working OK for me

On the popularity of the language ... there are a numbers of reasons (or pure speculation) why this is the case:

1. When I was at Uni (many years ago) Pascal (not OO) was one of the introductory languages. At the Uni that I attended it seems that Pascal is now a pre-req, and there are some courses that use Python instead.

2. While Delphi might have been good when it came out, it would be overtaken by C/C++/Java etc. Python is also easier to read/write? It was also blown out of the water, cost and marketing wise by the other players.

3. Could not really keep up wrt to web development - replaced with JS, React, Ruby etc.

4. How many people are actually aware of the possibilities with Object Pascal/FPC?

5. How many people talk about it on YouTube? My channel does focus on this, but ...

6. People ask on reddit whether to learn C or Python first?  And Pascal does not get a mention, even if it could be seen (?) as something between C and Python re difficulty?

7. If not even supported by Unis then ...

- Tim
(The Silver Coder - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEDZT_VZ0oz-gt7Mf_hJp2A)

[Joanna]

440bx there is nothing wrong with giving people who don’t know English the benefit of the doubt. I seldom judge someone’s character after reading just one post. That’s the good thing about forums, people have a history that helps get to know them.

Unfortunately the “I use fpc and I’m stupid” type posts seems to be a recurring theme in the forums being posted by different accounts.
Insults have no place in a technical support environment regardless of whom they are directed towards.

Who is going to want to start using fpc when it’s represented as “ the Compiler that stupid people use”? It’s negative publicity disguised as a request for assistance.

Surely people serious about using fpc are capable of asking for help without implying that people who use fpc are idiots/have poor self esteem first? The accounts that do this seldom amount to anything so far as I know.

4. How many people are actually aware of the possibilities with Object Pascal/FPC? 

From what I can tell most pascal naysayers act as if pascal has not changed since the 1980s and is still console programs compiled and linked on mainframe computers!

Fpc needs to develop a strong presence in other places in addition to this forum.
Currently there are parties who have no relationship to fpc developers on other platforms pretending to support fpc while discrediting both fpc and this forum. There is incessant misinformation about fpc being propagated

It’s nice that you have made a YouTube video but I don’t watch things with advertising.

[VisualLab]

It’s possible that the developers of fpc and Lazarus just want to create these things as a hobby for their own use and are nice enough to share them with people who want them. Maybe having a lot of users isn’t their goal.

It seems to me that it is not only for my own use. In addition, the more users there are, the greater the chance that the product (the package as a whole: compiler, IDE, libraries) will be improved. Because there will always be someone who will improve some part of the package. And other users will benefit from it.

[VisualLab]

Unfortunately the “I use fpc and I’m stupid” type posts seems to be a recurring theme in the forums being posted by different accounts.
Insults have no place in a technical support environment regardless of whom they are directed towards.

Who is going to want to start using fpc when it’s represented as “ the Compiler that stupid people use”? It’s negative publicity disguised as a request for assistance.

This is already an unjustified over-interpretation and exaggerated objections.

Surely people serious about using fpc are capable of asking for help without implying that people who use fpc are idiots/have poor self esteem first? The accounts that do this seldom amount to anything so far as I know.

There is nothing wrong with taking a critical look and assessing your knowledge and experience. Moreover, many forums (various fields) are dominated by vain people who overestimate their knowledge and experience. The fact that the FPC forum is dominated by more reserved people is rather an advantage.

4. How many people are actually aware of the possibilities with Object Pascal/FPC? 

From what I can tell most pascal naysayers act as if pascal has not changed since the 1980s and is still console programs compiled and linked on mainframe computers!

The same happens with other languages, e.g. Java vs. C#: "Java is outdated, poorly designed and not developing" vs. "C# is extremely modern, is great and is developing at an incredible pace." Old chants produced by corporate boards because it may translate into great profits. This has little to do with reality (advertisements are always greatly exaggerated). It's similar with FUD - it is also greatly exaggerated. This is something that can be called "negative advertising" but is in fact slander and aggressive fighting against competition (such corporate fascism). And the crowd (the gray masses of coders) mindlessly applauds this demagogy. And it is mainly this crowd that is the problem, because this crowd does not have a bit of skepticism and healthy criticism. However, this should not be done on the FPC and Lazarus forums. This is pathology.

It’s nice that you have made a YouTube video but I don’t watch things with advertising.

YouTube is a good place for promotion. Every video showing how to implement something in practice using Pascal or Object Pascal (Lazarus, Delphi) is necessary (or at least useful).