Processing .lds desktop file

[roy.lambert]

I posted in the Options newsgroup about trying to get the componentslist positioned where I want it. Looking through the .lds the information for positioning is there but I can't find where Lazarus loads AND applies this information.

I've looked at the code for the Load button in options but can't find where this data is used.

Two questions:

1. is the data in the desktop file used to position items such as the component list?

2. If so - where?

[JuhaManninen]

I posted in the Options newsgroup about trying to get the componentslist positioned where I want it. Looking through the .lds the information for positioning is there but I can't find where Lazarus loads AND applies this information.

Are you now using Lazarus trunk or still the release version? ComponentList position persistence is fixed in trunk.
Saving and loading .lds file uses the same code that is used for the whole desktop when Lazarus starts or when a desktop is switched by user.
In trunk the whole desktop settings are revamped. It supports configurable desktops. They are stored in environment options as a collection of desktops, but can also be exported / imported in desktop manager window.
The .lds files are a historical remain. They contain part of a desktop but not all of it. I am planning to remove the feature completely unless someone finds a valid use case for it. Now it mostly confuses people.

I've looked at the code for the Load button in options but can't find where this data is used.

Two questions:

1. is the data in the desktop file used to position items such as the component list?

2. If so - where?

Please forget the .lds files and use the new desktop feature in trunk instead.

[Edit] See also :
 https://www.mail-archive.com/lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/msg49647.html
Nobody has commented it so far.

[roy.lambert]

I'm using the 1.4.2 release

Newbie question: where do I download the trunk for Windows?

[JuhaManninen]

Newbie question: where do I download the trunk for Windows?

Basically just
 $ svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus
or the same thing using TortoiseSVN. See also :
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#Getting_Lazarus_SVN_development_version

[roy.lambert]

I'm still being thick, and this is just trying to get the IDE into my Delphi comfort zone

Wiped & did a clean install of Lazarus 1.3.2

Downloaded & installed TortoiseSVN

Recompiled the IDE - can't see any difference

Can you help more? I've read the link you provided but it assumes someone used to the whole approach which I'm (you might have guessed) not.

[Bart]

Please read the wiki article about installing Lazarus trunk version.
Basically:

• Install fpc compiler and sources
• Install an svn client
• us the client to checkout  http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk into a folder of choice (e.g. c:\devel\lazarus)
• build the Lazarus IDE from source: do a "make clean bigide OPT="-gl -gw"   " from inside the directory where you checked out Lazarus

Bart

[roy.lambert]

Thanks to all BUT

<<Please read the wiki article about installing Lazarus trunk version.>>
There are bits and pieces around the place. Most assume knowledge that I lack, and none works. There is no complete guide that I've found. Either this is my fault for not looking properly or its not there.

<<Install fpc compiler and sources>>
Done that

<<Install an svn client>>
Installed TortoiseSVN

<<us the client to checkout  http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk into a folder of choice (e.g. c:\devel\lazarus)>>
Done that

<<build the Lazarus IDE from source: do a "make clean bigide OPT="-gl -gw"   " from inside the directory where you checked out Lazarus>>
OK the options are different to anything I've found on the web but still it doesn't work. I simply get a load of
"Error makefile nnnn: Command syntax error" Tracked that down to the fact that I have BDS2006 installed. Renamed the Delphi make.exe and altered Windows PATH to pick up fpc's make.exe and I finally have 1.5 installed.

This is not a good introduction to Lazarus!

[JuhaManninen]

<<build the Lazarus IDE from source: do a "make clean bigide OPT="-gl -gw"   " from inside the directory where you checked out Lazarus>>
OK the options are different to anything I've found on the web but still it doesn't work. I simply get a load of
"Error makefile nnnn: Command syntax error" Tracked that down to the fact that I have BDS2006 installed. Renamed the Delphi make.exe and altered Windows PATH to pick up fpc's make.exe and I finally have 1.5 installed.

This is not a good introduction to Lazarus!

Well, the "Getting Lazarus" wiki page says :
  Lazarus is shipped with Makefile for gnu make util. (Be warned, if you also have Codegear (or Borland) tools installed, it might conflict with gnu "make" util).

I will try to improve it. At least Embarcadero should be mentioned instead of CodeGear.
You can also improve the wiki when you see an error or missing information.

[Bart]

Well I disagree with roy.lambert.
The wiki about getting Lazarus from svn worked for me.
Then a gain I'm accustomed to working from a console, where it only takes 2 commands to enter (once svn is installed).

The make.exe of Delphi obviously interferes with the make.exe that comes with fpc.
Just adjust the path to make sure that fc comes before Delphi.

I also think that if you want to use trunk (because it has a feature you need), we can expect from you to have some basic knowledge (how to install a program, how to get the fpc sources, how to run things from the console etc.).
This is never gonna be as simple as just running the installer for a new release.

About the OPT= "-gls -gs" : I simply siggested this so the IDE itself (and LCL) is built with line-info and uses dwarfsets (which the debugger seems to prefer).
None of this is necessary.
All of this can simply be adjusted when you want to rebuild the IDE from within itself.

And you can ask questions on the forum or ML if you get stuck, and get (as you can see) usefull answers very quickly.

Bart

[roy.lambert]

I'm not trying to start a war, just putting forward a view from someone who is experienced in IT, has used DElphi for a long time and is trying to get to grips with Lazarus.

<<Well, the "Getting Lazarus" wiki page says :
  Lazarus is shipped with Makefile for gnu make util. (Be warned, if you also have Codegear (or Borland) tools installed, it might conflict with gnu "make" util).>>

Getting Lazarus was a piece of cake. Download and run installer. Even though I have D2006 installed no problems. Why should I then realise I needed to be concerned if I downloaded the trunk?


<<I will try to improve it. At least Embarcadero should be mentioned instead of CodeGear.>>

Embarcadero rather than CodeGear wasn't the problem. What was were instructions that assumed I was familiar with how to do things and the setup I had. I'm a newbie to Lazarus and the wiki doesn't seem to be written for newbies.

<<You can also improve the wiki when you see an error or missing information.>>

When I know enough I may do so.

<<Well I disagree with roy.lambert.>>

That's fine and I will defend to the death (proferably someone else's) your right to so do

<<The wiki about getting Lazarus from svn worked for me.
Then a gain I'm accustomed to working from a console, where it only takes 2 commands to enter (once svn is installed).>>

Yup I'm a newbie to Lazarus and I know that's a problem.

<<I also think that if you want to use trunk (because it has a feature you need), we can expect from you to have some basic knowledge (how to install a program, how to get the fpc sources, how to run things from the console etc.).
This is never gonna be as simple as just running the installer for a new release.>>

Fully agree with the last statement but I'm experienced enough to read instructions and follow them, research on the web (OK often I can't come up with the right search terms) and follow what I find. However, I couldn't find what was needed. Bits and pieces glued together with experimentation and advice here eventually got me through.

BTW the reason I was trying to install the trunck is 1.4.2 wasn't (in my terms) saving and loading the desktop properly and I was advised to do so.

[JuhaManninen]

Getting Lazarus was a piece of cake. Download and run installer. Even though I have D2006 installed no problems. Why should I then realise I needed to be concerned if I downloaded the trunk?

<<I will try to improve it. At least Embarcadero should be mentioned instead of CodeGear.>>

Embarcadero rather than CodeGear wasn't the problem. What was were instructions that assumed I was familiar with how to do things and the setup I had. I'm a newbie to Lazarus and the wiki doesn't seem to be written for newbies.

This is partly my fault because I recommended trying the development version (trunk). It always by definition involves more geeky stuff compared to the polished release version.
However you happened to be interested in a feature (configurable desktops) that has gone through a big revamp in Lazarus trunk. Also the bugs you encountered are mostly fixed in trunk.
Thus I still recommend the trunk version for you, even if it has some rough edges.

Wiki is problematic also "by definition" because many people add contents but nobody cares about the high-level structure. I improved this particular page, now it has a nice warning sign etc.
But still this "Getting Lazarus" page has useless baggage. For example building FPC trunk does not belong there. It gives an impression that you need FPC trunk for Lazarus trunk which is certainly not true.
You can use release FPC or the new FPC 3.0RC1 (which I also recommend).

Lazarus is made by voluntary people with no big sponsors or paid developers. Unfortunately it shows in some details including poor documentation and slow development.
Still, my feeling is that it will be very good after the few missing pieces are added.

[roy.lambert]

Lazarus is made by voluntary people with no big sponsors or paid developers. Unfortunately it shows in some details including poor documentation and slow development.
Still, my feeling is that it will be very good after the few missing pieces are added.

I've been watching Lazarus for a long time and its finally reaching the point where I'm seriously thinking about switching from Delphi.

Over the next few weeks I'm going to try and port my homebrew components across and see just how much work I'll be letting myself in for. I've done one non-visual one which went remarkably easily but I have a sneaky suspicion that the visual controls will be less accommodating <G>

ps You're forgiven for making the suggestion - it works.

[Septe]

I have had similar experiences in gathering knowledge to compile lazarus and fpc.  I found getting svn versions frustrating, even though I did get the sources down.  I looked at fpcup and the fplazup.  I tried to get fpcup to download and compile trunk only to find fpcup complain about missing apache-svn-1.9.1.zip.  I did have tortoise-svn installed but fpcup wasn't using it.  I suspect that tortoise doesn't use the command svn.  I checked path and my path had tortoise svn in it. 

I looked at various websites looking for apache-svn-1.9.1.  No dice...but they do have 1.9.3.  I downloaded that and drew a blank as to how to install that.  No, I know it's not the right forum to get help to install that.  I abandoned apache-svn.  I looked at the stable versions and discovered in the lazarus directory that I could make clean all.  I checked the makefile and tried to make clean bigide as the instructions in the readme.txt (I think that is the file name I looked at).  Seemed to compile ok but didn't see anything different.  Ran Lazarus...discovered no extra packages.  Tried to rescan the packages.  Still nothing. 

For now, I have given up.  I will digest what I learned from this all nighter and hopefully with some sleep, I'll think of something.  All I wanted to do was to compile fpc and lazarus into the bigide package, set with dwarf2 debug information so I could step into the packages if I needed to.

Anyways, I am impressed with lazarus and I'll keep learning how it works and if I do get this figured out, I'll see what I can do to get the information together and publish it on the wiki.

[Cyrax]

Make sure that you have installed TortoiseSVN with svn command line tools.

[JuhaManninen]

I have had similar experiences in gathering knowledge to compile lazarus and fpc.  I found getting svn versions frustrating, ...

First, don't compile both Lazarus and FPC. Install the latest FPC and get only Lazarus trunk using SVN.
Using SVN is extremely easy, not frustrating at all. If you want to use cmd line tools, include the cmd line version while installing TortoiseSVN just like Cyrax wrote.
Then run:
 $ svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus
Or (even better for you) copy/paste the URL to TortoiseSVN GUI. I cannot get much simpler, can it? And then:
 $ make bigide

I looked at fpcup and the fplazup.  I tried to get fpcup to download and compile trunk ...

Why exactly do you want to use fpcup and fplazup? Do you think you need FPC trunk to test Lazarus trunk? For some reason many people have that misconception.
fpcup maintainer, are you reading this? The same issue was discussed already in mailing list and in this forum. How to stop that misconception from happening?
Using latest trunk versions of both FPC and Lazarus is almost never recommended. Only experienced developers may need it sometimes rarely.
You were interested in Lazarus trunk so please forget FPC trunk for now.
My experience is that the majority of people who have the trunk/trunk misconception really are interested in trying Lazarus trunk, just like Mr. Septe here.

I'll see what I can do to get the information together and publish it on the wiki.

What is wrong with these instructions:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus
It has screenshots for TortoiseSVN and all.
Maybe the most important point to document would be this:
 FPC trunk is not needed for Lazarus trunk. Getting Lazarus trunk requires only one svn command.
Write it to many places in wiki and forum and maybe the message finally gets through.