Delphi developers discusson forums

[instrumentally]

I haven't been online at the Embarcadero Community forums for at least a year. I decided to check in there today to see how active it was. Compared to a few years ago, that place seems like a ghost town. There used to be some interesting discussions in the forums about Delphi and its future and new features, but today I see not a single discussion about the latest release of Delphi or the upcoming release. Where did everyone go? Is there a better Delphi community/forum to join for these types of discussions?

[aidv]

I beleive Embarcadero is choking on its own price-point.

They are dying just the same way Borland did.

[sam707]

delphi? oh yes you mean... that damn expensive c++builder cosmetic!  I feel my allergy coming back loool... I can't wait PascalQt (ironic). I can't stand pascal compilers writen in C++ or whatever else but Pascal

[aidv]

delphi? oh yes you mean... that damn expensive c++builder cosmetic!  I feel my allergy coming back loool... I can't wait PascalQt (ironic)

Hahahaha. How many Pascal Developers are there in the world? I googled it today and I found some numbers, but I don't know if they're trustworthy though.

It said about one million Pascal developers, maybe even specifically Delphi developers.

[sam707]

the more numerous the less quality, as we say by me hahaahaaha

want another great example? look at windows 8 and 10... thousands and thousands engineers to make graphic interfaces for years and years that a 6 years old kid can draw in one afternoon  with a rough chalk

[aidv]

hahahaha

for real though. I've been thinking and dreaming of the perfect Pascal development enviroment and gathered ideas over the years.

How many programmers would be needed to create a compiler from scratch?

I know we have FPC but if money is supposed to be made, then I guess a proprietary compiler would be needed.

[sam707]

http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,27813.60.html

see my diagram and the link on pdf books given on page 5 at the above link

[aidv]

So 10 people at a minimum I guess.
How long time would it take to create a fully functioning compiler from scratch and what is the salary of a programmer?

[sam707]

i have no clue

[aidv]

Damn. I don't want to see Pascal die, because it is the best programming language out of all I know because it's so easy to understand.

There are things about Delphi that I absolutely miss, and I know that those things could be implemented.

If some of us would team up and create a commercial application, I believe that Pascal could easily become the number 1 language in the next 10 years.

I have a bunch of ideas, but it would be impossible for me to create them on my own.

And a lot of money could be made if there would be a proper business model.

[valdir.marcos]

So 10 people at a minimum I guess.
How long time would it take to create a fully functioning compiler from scratch and what is the salary of a programmer?

i have no clue

From 1968 (Niklaus Wirth's Pascal) until 2002 (Delphi 7, best Delphi ever): 34 years

As a minimum value we can think of 34 years x 10 programmers/engineers/architects x US$ 100 thousands/year = US$ 34,000,000.00

If we think of FPC 3.0rc1 and Lazarus 1.4, this value would grow to a minimum of 47 years x 10 programmers/engineers x US$ 100 thousands/year = US$ 47,000,000.00

That's one of the many reasons why FPC and Lazarus are so important for so many of us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(programming_language)
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Skill=C%2B%2B/Salary
http://www.indeed.com/salary/C-Developer.html
http://www.cplusplus.com/forum/lounge/97715/2/

[valdir.marcos]

And a lot of money could be made if there would be a proper business model.

The best business model for a programming language is open source, such as Pascal, Java, C++, Python, etc.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

[aidv]

Damn. That's a lot of time. And money.

However if a very modernized Dev Enviroment would be created then that money would be back in no-time.

And by modernized I mean to offer high-quality and very optimized frameworks right out of the box.

Delphi tried this with Firemonkey, but Firemonkey sucks.

They claim that it is hardware accelerated, and technically, yes it is, but their performance is like having a 2-stroke engine in a Ferrari and claim that it is mechanically empowered.

Just because it is "mechanically empowered" doesn't mean it's of high performance.

Also, parallel computing isn't fully utilized with Delphi.

Neither is cross-platform development.

Sure, now they have iOS, Android and OSX support but what about Linux?
What about ARM Linux?
What about microcontrollers?

They stay in a niched area by not having these options for developers.

What is the fate of Pascal?

In the future, as we Pascal users die out, what will be left is youngsters with C++ and Java knowledge because thats the only thing they teach in school.

Pascal will DIE people. It will DIE unless someone does something about it.


Now, how would money be made if a new Pascal dev-enviro would be created?

Given that we as a company could offer high quality, high performance frameworks out-of-the box, including cross-compilation to all major platforms, people would happily invest in buying this product.

The business model should be a subscription-based business model, where you as a developer pay X Euros for Y time.

One plan could be 20€ a month, and it is totally accepted.

We could offer updates on a regular basis, and the company would have a revenue of 720 thousand Euros a year given that there would be 3000 customers.

If we would create a product like this with a business-model like this, it would not only be commercially viable, but it could very well be viable for educational purposes as well and be taught in schools.

I have recently done some research and I am seriously thinking of making an investment in this idea.

Why should Pascal die? Why shouldn't Pascal flourish and allow people to make ideas reality?

I love Pascal and I see this huuuuge potential in it, but barely anything is happening.

We are all lucky that Embarcadero bought Delphi, even if we don't use Delphi, because thanks to Embarcadero the hope of Pascal has still been alive.

And thanks to the FPC team, we have an option available even if Delphi dies.

BUT, I still think that Pascal options of today aren't enough.

Would it be crazy to ask people team up and do something together?

I don't know.

[aidv]

And a lot of money could be made if there would be a proper business model.

The best business model for a programming language is open source, such as Pascal, Java, C++, Python, etc.
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Well, a programming language is always free and opensource. The tools don't have to be.
The language itself can't even be patented, but software can.

The bottom line is that with funding or a steady cashflow would improve the Pascal community drastically.

People have to eat ya know.

[derek.john.evans]

I dont understand. Why would someone pay for Pascal, when FreePascal is, well, Free?

Back in 2004, I loved Delphi 7, but, today, FreePascal and Lazarus kicks D7's butt.

The problem with Borland/Inprise/Embarcadero is they developed incomplete software tools which they then dumped, just because they didn't make the money they thought they should make.

How can you trust a company that encourages you to develop with their software, only to have it dumped?

I dont blame people for leaving Delphi. I believe the fire behind the motivation for developing FreePascal/Lazarus is the awful way Borland treated Pascal developers. (Actually, all developers. I cant stand all the hype Borland put into its product installers. It was all just BS)

Thank god for Lazarus and FreePascal!