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Author Topic: Delphi developers discusson forums  (Read 42823 times)

marcov

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2015, 06:04:55 pm »
Why bother then if you can use Delphi? Do not get it. ::)

Why bother trolling on forums ? I don't get it either.

Leledumbo

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2015, 06:11:55 pm »
Why bother then if you can use Delphi? Do not get it. ::)
Unless you want Linux but then you get like 0.1% of the market share.
Because you can develop on Linux and targets more than what Delphi can. That's about 99% market share.

rtusrghsdfhsfdhsdfhsfdhs

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2015, 06:15:09 pm »

Leledumbo

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2015, 06:21:04 pm »
Sorry Linux is @ 1.63%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
Still targetting desktops? Well, fortunately my work these days is in server environment. So it's a much much bigger market.

Handoko

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2015, 06:38:54 pm »
We should not force what we like or dislike to others. I know orange is good source of Vit C, I simply don't like it.

Some people choose paid support, the other choose free community support. It is up to him/her to choose what suit they needs. Why some people here try to brainwash the others.

I know Delphi is bloody awesome. Many years ago, I got a paid project. I really wanted to buy Delphi, but I simply can't because that project was only $80. So I tried Lazarus. I got a bug in one of the visual component, posted on the bug report forum. But too late, they fixed it after half year later. I already used a trick to hide the issue.

Delphi is great. But I earned money by using Lazarus. I also use WordPress, not because it's free. But because I can't afford the others. I donated some of my earnings back to WordPress.

Now I'm preparing for my next commercial project using Lazarus, and I'll be sure to make some financial support back to Lazarus. Delphi has better support because it's financial supported. If you don't like FPC/Lazarus, you have 2 options. Leave or support it. Most of us here know what are the advantages/disadvantages of using FPC/Lazarus.

The discussion here is not simply FPC/Lazarus vs others. But free and community supported software vs commercial ones.

Rather than convince others to agree with you, better spend time for improving FPC/Lazarus or your own projects.

Peace  :D

sam707

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2015, 08:49:02 pm »
i am sorry to teach you something

linux around 8-12% depending the country! especially intensive usage where high security matters... (govs, hospitals, police)

95% of servers are running Apache (lx) NOT IIS (ms) WORLDWIDE

android 94% smartphones and tablets (android is nothing less than linux fork)

sales of desktop computers are shrinking like ice under sun since 2-3 years worldwide, against the sales of pocket systems (phones, pad, tablets)

SO my lil conclusion = Steve Jobs definitively was brright visonaire, and microsoft is gona fall with desktop comps into a niche
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 08:57:24 pm by sam707 »

garlar27

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2015, 10:41:05 pm »
I work for a Small company which sell POS system (windows and Linux) made with lazarus.
Some of our server side services are built in lazarus too.
At this moment we are building an on-line credit card validation system for our clients. And guess what: is built in lazarus too.

But we tell our clients (if interested on knowing) "it's programed with C". AFAIK only one person did that question.

When I was hired the first lazarus project was already started and wasn't very pleased at this time,
mainly because of: not many third party components, many bugs, and things that should work were not working.

Now looking back to november 2008 when I started and things done and learned since then, I can tell you that:
   Third party components has increased a lot.
   Bugs get solved pretty quick and if not you can find a workaround in the meanwhile.
   Things that were not working as expected was due to lack of knowing the Lazarus' way of doing things, or bad design (my fault  :-[ or lack of knowhow).
   This forum is great! If some one knows how to help you they do it immidiately, and sometimes it gets realy long on someting you thought was a minor thing. If not, then nobody who knows how read your thread, or the question is very silly (I've made a couple of them).

Now if you ask me I don't want to go back to Delphi, and there is nothing I miss from them (it's MY CASE your opinion may vary).

ATM Lazarus is as good as it gets and improves at their own pace and I can live with that.
Now when we face an UNSOLVABLE problem, we stop and think:
   - is something we are doing the wrong way
   - are there other ways to solve that problem
   - are there ready made tools to solve that problem
   - or there is technical limitation which prevents us from reaching our goal (if so we go back to design)

When talking to other programmers some times I face their ignorance about pascal and endurance their tries toconvert me from a pagan religion to the religion which says that Moses receive the ten commandments writen in C and Jesus miracoulous JAVA and the holy grail of Python and so forth.
I got used to silly questions like "How does it feels to program in a death language?" or "Pascal? Oh! Kids' programming language!"
After a laugh, I ask them to define "death language" and later I explain why Pascal is not death according to their definition of "death" and making clear that every language has at least one adventage over others and that we are very happy with our choice and the benefits we had with using FPC.

I haven't read the Dutch banking regulator reasons to advice not to use delphi thus I can't any thing about it. But I live in Argentina and we know very well that many of guvernamental decisions like this are taken mainly by corruption (I do not remember a better inglish word to say "some corporation is giving money on change of.."). But again I haven't read their technical reasons.

Every body can do a busines with almost any tool under the tools' license. We are doing it!!!
Microsoft stopped using Delphi in Skype by obvious reasons. Imagine a conference:
MS Anouncer -"We are geting our Skype to a new level"
Journalist  -"Which language you used to program it?"
MS Anouncer -"Delphi."
Journalist  -"Why not C#?"
MS Anouncer -"...."

just my opinion...

derek.john.evans

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2015, 10:54:12 pm »
When talking to other programmers some times I face their ignorance about pascal and endurance their tries toconvert me from a pagan religion to the religion which says that Moses receive the ten commandments writen in C and Jesus miracoulous JAVA and the holy grail of Python and so forth.
I got used to silly questions like "How does it feels to program in a death language?" or "Pascal? Oh! Kids' programming language!"

Yep, Ive seen the same mentality. Ive even heard from guys who criticize Pascal, and then complain about all the problems they are having in C++.

RE: "Pascal? Oh! Kids' programming language!". Is that an ignorant way of saying, its easy?  ;D Whats the problem with easy?

That's like telling someone in the building industry that a John Deere Grader is a toy. Why not use a hand shovel?


derek.john.evans

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2015, 11:26:39 pm »
This all comes back to a philosophy I live by. This post will most likely be lost in the pile, but hopefully someone will read it a get something from it.

Some years back I came up with an acronym which really helps me achieve something.

DID = Dream Imagine Do

Pascal helps me in that process. Most people dont get past the "Dream" stage. The "Imagine" (or visualize) stage is extremely important. Being able to completely visualize a project before it is even started takes a lot of meditation. Finally, "DO" it. Pascal enables me to DO what I DREAM-ed and IMAGINE-ed.

Only, then can I say I DID something.

BTW: I'm all for prototyping and if a language/IDE helps develop a prototype, then cool.

If you want my opinion of software company bosses, this is it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffj8SHrbk0

I cant tell you how many times I've written a quick prototype, only to have a boss think its actually the real product! Or, think, if a prototype took 1-2 days to write, then the product should be finished in 1-2 weeks. Crazy!

Anyway, live by what you believe. I know Geep Jeez and PAS2PHP would not exist without Lazarus, so I'm _really_ thankful for everyone who gave to this project.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 11:30:25 pm by Geepster »

lazjump

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2015, 03:19:29 am »
Hey guys, so who we are going to bash in this thread?

(sorry.. bad joke  :D)

I am looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus.

I believe that Lazarus can be used to code many many things. Virtually everything could be coded with Lazarus. But for this time, for my own needs, I have to spend significantly more man-hours to get things done with FPC+Lazarus in Windows than with Delphi 7.

An excellent tool enable the user to spend his/her productive time to create things the tool, not to spend the time with the tool.

If the user spends more time to :
- figure out how to do things with the tool because the tool do not have sufficient docs
- contemplate "is this a bug or not?" 
- study the source and asking questions because something do not work the way it should be, or worse, unimplemented
- find workarounds/patching/fixing the tool by his/herself, and also keep an eye on the fix because the "official" fix might come out someday later and break the fix made by his/herself
- roll his/her own components/libraries because no third party or community had ever create the components/libraries (third parties think "no money to make in the market", and the community says "you could have a look at the source and feel free to roll your own")
 
Then the tool might be a good tool. But is not an excellent tool (yet).

Meanwhile, I downloaded and installed VisualStudio 2015 Community Edition. On the first run, I said "Oh my, the IDE look like alien. Where the hell is the component pallete?". You might laugh, but Delphi 7 (and a little Lazarus) is all I know.

But...

In 3 weeks or so I found myself had coded something meaningful with VB.NET (Win Forms). More meaningful than what I done with Lazarus in the same time range. Given that I know Pascal far far more than Basic. And I am not a member of any VB forum (the only time I gave my email is when I register to download SyncFusion Community Edition). This showed me a tool that enables the user to use the tool to work quickly, not to spend time with the tool. Of course I know that everybody's experience could be different. Please don't kill me :D

But...

I *really* hope that Lazarus could reach such usefulness.

I am *really* looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus. Because:
- I like the Pascal language
- Over the years I have created lots of working code in Delphi that could be ported to Lazarus
- I can not afford to buy newer Delphi

Just a few cents of mine  ::)
I thought Delphi was expensive until I learned the price of ExtJS

aidv

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2015, 03:50:52 am »
Hey guys, so who we are going to bash in this thread?

(sorry.. bad joke  :D)

I am looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus.

I believe that Lazarus can be used to code many many things. Virtually everything could be coded with Lazarus. But for this time, for my own needs, I have to spend significantly more man-hours to get things done with FPC+Lazarus in Windows than with Delphi 7.

An excellent tool enable the user to spend his/her productive time to create things the tool, not to spend the time with the tool.

If the user spends more time to :
- figure out how to do things with the tool because the tool do not have sufficient docs
- contemplate "is this a bug or not?" 
- study the source and asking questions because something do not work the way it should be, or worse, unimplemented
- find workarounds/patching/fixing the tool by his/herself, and also keep an eye on the fix because the "official" fix might come out someday later and break the fix made by his/herself
- roll his/her own components/libraries because no third party or community had ever create the components/libraries (third parties think "no money to make in the market", and the community says "you could have a look at the source and feel free to roll your own")
 
Then the tool might be a good tool. But is not an excellent tool (yet).

Meanwhile, I downloaded and installed VisualStudio 2015 Community Edition. On the first run, I said "Oh my, the IDE look like alien. Where the hell is the component pallete?". You might laugh, but Delphi 7 (and a little Lazarus) is all I know.

But...

In 3 weeks or so I found myself had coded something meaningful with VB.NET (Win Forms). More meaningful than what I done with Lazarus in the same time range. Given that I know Pascal far far more than Basic. And I am not a member of any VB forum (the only time I gave my email is when I register to download SyncFusion Community Edition). This showed me a tool that enables the user to use the tool to work quickly, not to spend time with the tool. Of course I know that everybody's experience could be different. Please don't kill me :D

But...

I *really* hope that Lazarus could reach such usefulness.

I am *really* looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus. Because:
- I like the Pascal language
- Over the years I have created lots of working code in Delphi that could be ported to Lazarus
- I can not afford to buy newer Delphi

Just a few cents of mine  ::)

You formulated it very well.

I feel the same way.

Unfortunately, without funding, Lazarus isn't going to be commercially attractive anytime soon.

skalogryz

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2015, 03:52:02 am »
Hey guys, so who we are going to bash in this thread?
...
ahaha... I know how you feel. All you've said is so true!

derek.john.evans

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2015, 04:02:35 am »
Hey guys, so who we are going to bash in this thread?
...

 >:D O, dont get me started! Ha.

This thread reminds me of the saying: "A bad workman always blames his tools"

Leledumbo

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2015, 08:51:00 am »
Hey guys, so who we are going to bash in this thread?

(sorry.. bad joke  :D)

I am looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus.

I believe that Lazarus can be used to code many many things. Virtually everything could be coded with Lazarus. But for this time, for my own needs, I have to spend significantly more man-hours to get things done with FPC+Lazarus in Windows than with Delphi 7.

An excellent tool enable the user to spend his/her productive time to create things the tool, not to spend the time with the tool.

If the user spends more time to :
- figure out how to do things with the tool because the tool do not have sufficient docs
- contemplate "is this a bug or not?" 
- study the source and asking questions because something do not work the way it should be, or worse, unimplemented
- find workarounds/patching/fixing the tool by his/herself, and also keep an eye on the fix because the "official" fix might come out someday later and break the fix made by his/herself
- roll his/her own components/libraries because no third party or community had ever create the components/libraries (third parties think "no money to make in the market", and the community says "you could have a look at the source and feel free to roll your own")
 
Then the tool might be a good tool. But is not an excellent tool (yet).

Meanwhile, I downloaded and installed VisualStudio 2015 Community Edition. On the first run, I said "Oh my, the IDE look like alien. Where the hell is the component pallete?". You might laugh, but Delphi 7 (and a little Lazarus) is all I know.

But...

In 3 weeks or so I found myself had coded something meaningful with VB.NET (Win Forms). More meaningful than what I done with Lazarus in the same time range. Given that I know Pascal far far more than Basic. And I am not a member of any VB forum (the only time I gave my email is when I register to download SyncFusion Community Edition). This showed me a tool that enables the user to use the tool to work quickly, not to spend time with the tool. Of course I know that everybody's experience could be different. Please don't kill me :D

But...

I *really* hope that Lazarus could reach such usefulness.

I am *really* looking forward for the time to switch from Delphi 7 to Lazarus. Because:
- I like the Pascal language
- Over the years I have created lots of working code in Delphi that could be ported to Lazarus
- I can not afford to buy newer Delphi

Just a few cents of mine  ::)
I know it for sure, people with commercially supported tools will feel this way. But that's just how pure open source works: contribute to what's missing and share with others what you have. It's just the lifestyle and it can't really be compared to commercial ones (including commercial while still being open source). The rude way to tell people who want open source softwares to act like commercial ones is: be part of it or get the hell out of it. Commercial never means better, but most (lazy) people want someone to blame when something doesn't work, instead of contributing by researching why it doesn't work and provide what makes it work. Open source community member will always take the latter route. This applies to every aspect: code, documentation, hosting servers, whatever. I've contributed code patches, write/edit some wiki pages, reply questions here (and in other places such as facebook) and that's no different from a software developer, technical writer and customer service working as a person. The only difference is that: I did it for the sake of this software and its community. I don't get paid by doing them, but they keep this software alive. So, I suggest to remove the lazy mental before entering open source software community. Try to act the same to other open source software communities, you will get more or less the same response.

marcov

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Re: Delphi developers discusson forums
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2015, 01:25:05 pm »
In 3 weeks or so I found myself had coded something meaningful with VB.NET (Win Forms). More meaningful than what I done with Lazarus in the same time range. Given that I know Pascal far far more than Basic. And I am not a member of any VB forum (the only time I gave my email is when I register to download SyncFusion Community Edition). This showed me a tool that enables the user to use the tool to work quickly, not to spend time with the tool. Of course I know that everybody's experience could be different. Please don't kill me :D

Aren't you benchmarking the wrong thing? Sure, the commercial offerings are more polished and thus allow a more flying start. No surprise there.

The question is what you do long term? Is the offering you are choosing not too limited, and you need more flexibility? Will you get into trouble with licensing? What if MS goes in a different direction than you want and clips functionality you rely on from the free offering?

Sure you can always point to .NET alternatives like mono, but then you are suddenly in a whole different territory, and using two separate toolchains, thus limited to the lowest common denomitor of both.

If your requirements are limited, why not use a free commercial tool if it suits you? I do know the MS licensing for free tools has been more liberal in recent years. Commercial usage is allowed, and there is not just support for the technology they want to push, but also for older ones.

There is no perfect answer, nobody can predict the future. It helps if it is an option to buy VS if needed, and if your application is rock hard linked to Windows desktop.

But IMHO the quick start argument is pretty useless, and should not be the deciding factor to choose either. That is like choosing a tool depending on which box is shinier.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:29:58 pm by marcov »

 

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