Delphi developers discusson forums

[marcov]

I would imagine a lot of people are now using FPC and Lazarus.

Those people are just using it has hobby.

There have been professional FPC users since 2000, with a notable increase in the 2000-2003 period because Kylix users were left to hang dry.

If it doesn't suit your business model, it doesn't automatically mean it doesn't suit any business model.

[Thaddy]

I am even maintaining commercial Delphi legacy (pre D2009, but also some newer serverside ) code in FPC when the use of my own licenses are not possible or desirable.
Mind you, Delphi as a tool made me, or contributed to, to some extend financially independent if and when I reach a certain age.

It is a great asset to be able to guarantee that such products have a reproducable toolset and the version of FPC that is used is part of the delivery. That is often highly appreciated. But then again: most companies are not very serious about maintaining the availability of the tools that built their business critical software. Even big ones like top 500 companies.

That is also a lesson in client side marketing tricks: DON'T UPGRADE to a newer version of your tools for business critical software if there is no compelling reason to do so. There are only two that have merit:
- The toolset was flawed in an extremely big way
- The future of the product that was built with these tools is extended, so taking risks is warranted.

I have seen so much money being spend in upgrading toolsets for so called pressing reasons (product- side marketing) that I lost count about the 100's of millions of Euro's being waisted.
Upgrading existing working essential software because of the toolchain is a waiste of time and money.
NEW products are different.

But I made a lot for simply translating for Downgrading software half a note lower (both candidates apply: C# and C++) for no obvious reason.

[sam707]

what is also interesting to me is the fact that millions and millions young people learn C++, Java ... and thousands of them are hackers focused on reverse enginering tools around these languages... BUT no easy reverse hacking against fpc compiled code so far! SO if you develop a project compiled with FPC/Lazarus attracting massively users, none of the above teens (stupid) hackers would build easy copycat and/or would be able to steal the concept on the flow!

thats also a major advantage!

the more famous is a compiler the more a code obfuscator and other protections are needed

[marcov]

It is a great asset to be able to guarantee that such products have a reproducable toolset and the version of FPC that is used is part of the delivery. That is often highly appreciated. But then again: most companies are not very serious about maintaining the availability of the tools that built their business critical software. Even big ones like top 500 companies.

At work we are still a Delphi shop, but I'm converting all inhouse programming (so everything but the main applications that are sold) to Lazarus for that same reason.  That includes side-apps that are delivered for customers like viewers, data exporters etc.

The reasons are, like you said, archiving used version with the tools, allowing customers to modify these tools (most customers ironically already have delphi somewhere in engineering but rarely beyond D6/7) and the fact that FPC/Lazarus is more a distribution than Delphi is, so less micromanaging all kinds of components and units. (though Delphi in embarcadero hands has become a bit better in this respect).

I hope that in time Lazarus becomes an all in one installer with everything from CCR, that would simplify even more.

For the commercial apps, debugging (on windows) is simply too immature. We get few enough debug chances with the application wired up to all equipment in process conditions, we can't afford to miss them.

[Thaddy]

You know I am happily able to spend a ridiculous amount of time (10 hours a week) debugging/helping my the toolsets. If debugging is less comfortable if that;s what you mean: true. If it is about the same facilities: I beg to differ. You can obtain the same results.

[Leledumbo]

I would imagine a lot of people are now using FPC and Lazarus.

Those people are just using it has hobby.

http://www.scootersoftware.com/
https://www.habarisoft.com/
http://www.brp-software.com/
http://www.djpdv.com.br/index.php
http://www.parkeer.com.br/
https://xerosys.com/
http://soft-practice.com/apps/simplegit
http://jpdbadmin.com/

if they're just using it as a hobby, it's a hobby that gets paid, it's gooooooooooooooooooooood

[Thaddy]

the more famous is a compiler the more a code obfuscator and other protections are needed

Code obfuscators are evil. I never used them. They are worthless. Just like crapware, adware and spyware.

These are all on the same level of non-value.

I do a lot of pen-tests and software reviews. All of the obfuscators and protectors are beatable. NON excluded. You are creating a false sense of security or protection.

This is again about marketing, not about software engineering.

[marcov]

I do a lot of pen-tests and software reviews. All of the obfuscators and protectors are beatable. NON excluded. You are creating a false sense of security or protection.

If you walk outside in the rain you also have a false sense of security, since you could be struck by lighting any second.   Why do you do it? Because the CHANCE is low.

Just because you can think of one extreme doesn't mean that makes it automatically black and white.

(and yes we deliver software with a dongle)

[rtusrghsdfhsfdhsdfhsfdhs]

I would imagine a lot of people are now using FPC and Lazarus.

Those people are just using it has hobby.

http://www.scootersoftware.com/
https://www.habarisoft.com/
http://www.brp-software.com/
http://www.djpdv.com.br/index.php
http://www.parkeer.com.br/
https://xerosys.com/
http://soft-practice.com/apps/simplegit
http://jpdbadmin.com/

if they're just using it as a hobby, it's a hobby that gets paid, it's gooooooooooooooooooooood

Nice try. Now show me a commercial application written with Free Pascal.
And yes Mitov Software dropped the support long ago due to lack of features and tons of bugs.

[marcov]

Nice try. Now show me a commercial application written with Free Pascal.

I'll pass, but I can't give you an url for a commercial app made by Delphi either without searching. Not all applications have a public face, and what they are made with is often undisclosed too.

And yes Mitov Software dropped the support long ago due to lack of features and tons of bugs.

Commercial product or commercial derived product (aka component) is two different things. And I'm sorry but I can't take the argumentation very seriously, since Mitov started to appear on Embarcadero sponsored events extolling the virtues of the newer Delphi features nearly simultaneously with that decision.

[JD]

Nice try. Now show me a commercial application written with Free Pascal.

I'll pass, but I can't give you an url for a commercial app made by Delphi either without searching. Not all applications have a public face, and what they are made with is often undisclosed too.

And yes Mitov Software dropped the support long ago due to lack of features and tons of bugs.

Commercial product or commercial derived product (aka component) is two different things. And I'm sorry but I can't take the argumentation very seriously, since Mitov started to appear on Embarcadero sponsored events extolling the virtues of the newer Delphi features nearly simultaneously with that decision.

Off the top of my head

a) TuneUp Utilities
b) IOBit Advanced SystemCare

are written in Delphi.

By the way, I just discovered that Embacardero has released Delphi XE 10!!  Their release cycle is crazy. How can developers keep up with that?

In addition, I have a commercial N-tier application written in Lazarus/Free Pascal. I'm not alone. There are many others that have written commercial applications in Lazarus/Free Pascal. Not all such applications are on the Internet especially if it is an application for a specific client.

JD

[marcov]

By the way, I just discovered that Emabardero has released Delphi XE 10!!  Their release cycle is crazy. How can developers keep up with that?

(Take a second mortgage? Just kiddin')

Anyway, not all people have every version in production even if they have a subscription.

But XE10 will probably one of the versions that is taken up more simply because the probably very minor win10 enhancements are very visible.

From a previous job I remember how the cycle works. It starts with beta-testers of the new windows complaining that your app looks "old". Then around the time that the new windows cycle is released, there is a lot publicity and it is about the only time the general manager wants to micromanage IT.

A decision is made that "something must be done" about the application "looking old", and Embarcadero friendly fills the management mailboxes with publicity about their new W10 release.   The suggestion from the programmers that changing the background color of the app is also a restyling is rejected.

The programmers on the other hand know that it is inevitable, but since it is an external directive and mostly visual change, they try to charge their upgrade costs not on their own budget but PR's. They never succeed but it is fun trying anyway.

IT's budget takes a hit (both for the fees, but much, much worse, the additional time for conversion and actually implementing using the new features). Existing customers react happy (but are on annual contract anyway), and not one new customer appears because of this. (new customers for some reason always want features that streamline their business not just look)

The netto result is twofold. One can argue that you did something to give your customers the illusion that something is happening. The other side is that you take that programmer's time away from actually making things happen :-)

[hnb]

By the way, I just discovered that Emabardero has released Delphi XE 10!!  Their release cycle is crazy. How can developers keep up with that?

You are wrong. XE no longer exists. XE 8 is the last. They changed name to DX 10 (Delphi), CX 10 (C++ Builder) and RX 10 (Rad Studio)

LOL.

[Leledumbo]

Nice try. Now show me a commercial application written with Free Pascal.
And yes Mitov Software dropped the support long ago due to lack of features and tons of bugs.

Did you even bother clicking the first link? Do you know what Scooter software sells? If that's not a commercial application, then what is it? The rest are the same, they are NOT hobby projects, if you don't get my sarcasm.

In addition, I have a commercial N-tier application written in Lazarus/Free Pascal. I'm not alone. There are many others that have written commercial applications in Lazarus/Free Pascal. Not all such applications are on the Internet especially if it is an application for a specific client.

Correct. We have hospital management system, POS, accounting, etc. products. All are commercials but not available online, you must contact the seller directly. This is simply a marketing strategy.

[marcov]

Oh dear, I forgot to mention the applications of some core people's businesses, worse, I've been to both on FPC and Lazarus meet-ups:

The ERP for the Croatian market by Zelkjo and Viprinet (that makes multilink VPN routers) that has several people working on the FPC support, specially arm. A few years back they also still used Kylix for their x86 based routers.

The first major commercial application (in 2000) was a ported MS Pascal embedded database engine and related apps that was in use by the EU. (that was a Linux application. The porting effort was mostly done before Kylix came out, but afaik it went in production after Kylix was out)