What about a more modern IDE?

[marcov]

It is not useless at all. Voting shows that many people want to see changes in IDE design.

No, it means that you worded it in a way  that answering "no" equals "I want to be stoneage". So since the poll actually induces people to take one answer, it is hardly something that proves your statement.

Worse, you haven't done much more to promote a course other than posting screenshots. Any newbie that named 10 concrete points to tackle without all the drama could have done better.

[Martin_fr]

Gosh, you have a strange misconception that Lazarus developers prevent the IDE from getting better. No, in reality they are the people who brought it even this far.

Juha, you have a misconception that I have a misconception 
I just wanted to say that original Delphi IDE design is not the way how an IDE have to looks like in 2015.  I've never said nothing against programmers who did an excellent job. Just wanted to say that someone must to work on a more comfortable environment design.

Strange. From your first post to this thread

If I may to ask, why Lazarus programmers stubbornly insist on this archaically designed interface instead of creating something more useful and more productive?

-------------------

So, instead of opening useless votings and complaining, please improve the IDE and provide patches. Valid patches are usually accepted.

It is not useless at all. Voting shows that many people want to see changes in IDE design.

This was well known, and agreed long before this poll.

And yes "Someone" has do to the work. Who will it be?

The "Lazarus Team" is about little over a dozen people. All of them doing this in their free time, next to a normal Job, just in the evenings. Some can afford time every week, others only once in a while.
And together they currently already have over 1600 issues to deal with from mantis. Many feature requests, and ideas of their own (well doing the work, it is only fair to be allowed ideas of your own, isn't it?)
Still one of them started Anchor docking, and time permitting will finish it (or some one else from that team will).

Until then the choices are:
- wait
- do it yourself
- lobby for some one else to do it

[rvk]

Until then the choices are:
- wait
- do it yourself
- lobby for some one else to do it

To be fair... this whole topic is kind of a fishing trip for the last option 

[BitBangerUSA]

Until then the choices are:
- wait
- do it yourself
- lobby for some one else to do it

To be fair... this whole topic is kind of a fishing trip for the last option 

to be 'unfair' - i think that Gosh should do it.

how about it Gosh? you've made a lot of statements about how lacking Lazarus is. surely you've been furiously coding away on improvements between your posts here. when can we expect to see your work?

[jwdietrich]

Let's do an experiment and use a machine with Windows 7 and Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 3 GHz:

Starting Lazarus in "old Delphi IDE style": 3 seconds
Starting Delphi XE3 without plug-ins: 55 seconds
Starting Delphi XE3 with two plug-ins: 125 seconds

For me that is enough information.

[typo]

This and other related topics are recurrent. Why not to create a page on the wiki listing all ideas to it or something?

[lainz]

Let's do an experiment and use a machine with Windows 7 and Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 3 GHz:

Starting Lazarus in "old Delphi IDE style": 3 seconds
Starting Delphi XE3 without plug-ins: 55 seconds
Starting Delphi XE3 with two plug-ins: 125 seconds

For me that is enough information.

Remember that Windows do a cache in memory of recently used process to load it faster the next time.

I have Windows 7 and less specs that you (maybe I have more RAM?) and this is my time:

Lazarus (the ide look by default): 2 sec
Visual Studio 2013: 2 sec

[Gosh]

to be 'unfair' - i think that Gosh should do it.

how about it Gosh? you've made a lot of statements about how lacking Lazarus is. surely you've been furiously coding away on improvements between your posts here. when can we expect to see your work?

you're right, Sir. I'll do it alone without any help. After that I'll give that work to cynics from this topic.

No, I'm just kidding.

BTW when I started this topic I was more than sure that 'IT talibs' will find this thread as a perfect place for their 'ideology'. I don't pay attention on their comments and want to help to start creating something better and more useful for all of us.

[typo]

There is this page on the Wiki, maybe it can be used.

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Feature_Ideas

[taazz]

BTW when I started this topic I was more than sure that 'IT talibs' will find this thread as a perfect place for their 'ideology'. I don't pay attention on their comments and want to help to start creating something better and more useful for all of us.

Yeah right! stop embarashing your self and show us the code. Anything less is just a pipe dream.

[typo]

I have just created this:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Feature_Ideas#Visual_Improvements

Please add your idea there.

[Gosh]

Until then the choices are:
- wait
- do it yourself
- lobby for some one else to do it

- try to activate people to take part in that process
- try to define thoughts in the right direction
- when the process starts, do your best to be useful member of a group.

etc etc

Honestly, I don't intend to wait next 10 years to see a little bit better multiplatform IDE. In that case I'll be forced to stuck with Mono framework which works not so fine under Linux.  I tried to create a test project with 4 forms in Lazarus and it was really frustrating experience after Visual Studio. What to say if you intend to work with a project which contains 45 different forms (as I intend to do)?  I can't imagine that someone can work without tabbed interface on a larger project. I won't say that it is impossible to finish in Lazarus but it is more than frustrating job. And what to say about Object inspector? Anyone who worked with VS fells the difference.  It is possible to work with them on a desktop PC with a large display but if you're working from a notebook it is rather frustrating thing.


Have I said anything wrong here? No, I'm not. But, it would be completely enough for some persons to spit on me and my suggestion about a better IDE.

[taazz]

Until then the choices are:
- wait
- do it yourself
- lobby for some one else to do it

- try to activate people to take part in that process
- try to define thoughts in the right direction
- when the process starts, do your best to be useful member of a group.

etc etc

Honestly, I don't intend to wait next 10 years to see a little bit better multiplatform IDE. In that case I'll be forced to stuck with Mono framework which works not so fine under Linux.  I tried to create a test project with 4 forms in Lazarus and it was really frustrating experience after Visual Studio. What to say if you intend to work with a project which contains 45 different forms (as I intend to do)?  I can't imagine that someone can work without tabbed interface on a larger project. I won't say that it is impossible to finish in Lazarus but it is more than frustrating job. And what to say about Object inspector? Anyone who worked with VS fells the difference.  It is possible to work with them on a desktop PC with a large display but if you're working from a notebook it is rather frustrating thing.


Have I said anything wrong here? No, I'm not. But, it would be completely enough for some persons to spit on me and my suggestion about a better IDE.

No you haven't said anything wrong, you haven't said anything right either. "Really frustrating" is not something that can be worked upon. Creating a Visual studio clone its on the opposite direction of the projects goal so far. Making things easier for visual studio users can be worked upon but "really frustrating" gives as much information on your frustrations as if I was to say that diamonds are prettier than lazarus.

[skalogryz]

What to say if you intend to work with a project which contains 45 different forms (as I intend to do)?

Not related, to the topic, but a project with 45 forms is a application bad design (for either MSVS, Mono or Lazarus).

by the time a project gets to 10 forms, developers are considering to make it more... dynamic.
One of the approaches is splitting a project into plugins

[Gosh]

No you haven't said anything wrong, you haven't said anything right either. "Really frustrating" is not something that can be worked upon.

I gave an example with pics how it should looks like in general. Using of tabs is simply must have for any normal IDE. It is even a feature which has almost every modern text editor.

Creating a Visual studio clone its on the opposite direction of the projects goal so far.
 Making things easier for visual studio users can be worked upon but "really frustrating" gives as much information on your frustrations as if I was to say that diamonds are prettier than lazarus.

Where I said anything about cloning of VS? I just tell that VS is much more productive than Lazarus but it is not the only environment on the market today.

The most important things should be
- tab oriented editor
- more functional project explorer (VS has excellent one)
- separated (and willingly dockable) object inspector

It is not such a big job for experienced programmers. It is possible to do that for less than a month.

Have I said anything right again?