FreeSparta is OpenSource

[JuhaManninen]

It would be great. This is a motivating idea. In my TODO OpenSource list is: Delphi ToolsAPI compatible interface (it depends on Sparta packages), Project Manager, better interface to plug other languages into Lazarus IDE, maybe history tab. How can I become a Lazarus developer?

The normal route is to participate in the development by sending patches and discussing about design decisions in the mailing list when needed.
Some commitment is required, meaning the developer is responsible for his code. Opinions of other developers should be respected, but in practice a developer doing the work gets more voting power than others.

Juha, my proposal over sparta patches would be to create separate branch of lazarus until it's fully implemented (without typhoon components), and  then merged into trunk as big feature for 1.6.

Yes it sounds good. We have not used branches much but maybe we should.
Maciej Izak is a special case because he has already done lots of Lazarus development although not in Lazarus project.
Creating a special branch for him would suite well. Merge conflicts are always a problem with branches so it should not hang out there for too long.

The changes include bug fixes which should be committed directly to trunk. New features and such could go to the branch.
The details should be discussed in mailing list because other developers read it.

[vfclists]

Lazarus needs its own version of David Intersimone (beard optional).

Consider how often the Smart Mobile Studio and Synopse/mORMot developers blog. http://lazarus-dev.blogspot.nl saw a grand total of 2 posts from 2013 - 2014. Lazarus core developers don't blog enough and a lot of the efforts they make get wasted because users don't get to know about therm. Not everyone can follow Bugzilla or check the wiki regularly, and whatever it is you have to see it in pictures and even video before you consider trying out yourself.

Finding information about Lazarus from a casual user perspective is hard enough, so you can imagine what someone who has to learn about Lazarus internals well enough to contribute it to it has to go through, let alone add new functionality and have it accepted.

I think they ought to put the book they created online, allow users to edit it and solicit donations for it. If copyright issues prevent it, then a new manual has to be created and put up for contributions.

[skalogryz]

IIRC, the position to be "the voice" (face/beak) of Lazarus has been opened for years. Any volunteers?

btw, Core developers do blog enough. Sometimes they are blogging too much. The only problem is that all posts are found on the forum, wiki and the majority of it - on the mailing list.

[vfclists]

IIRC, the position to be "the voice" (face/beak) of Lazarus has been opened for years. Any volunteers?

btw, Core developers do blog enough. Sometimes they are blogging too much. The only problem is that all posts are found on the forum, wiki and the majority of it - on the mailing list.

The wiki and the forums are not blogs, and are targetted at those who use Lazarus regularly. The other developers have forums and they blog as well. Can you point me to forum articles introducing upcomfing features, or even newly introduced features?

[skalogryz]

Can you point me to forum articles introducing upcomfing features, or even newly introduced features?

Sure! Announcements section at the top of the forum list

[skalogryz]

FreeSparta itself was announced there. Tracking the attention of the competitor XERO Coder

... omg! what are spiral of IDEs development!
Thank you, mobile platforms! You did it again as it was in early 2000s with all the web and fancy-oop development

[hnb]

The normal route is to participate in the development by sending patches and discussing about design decisions in the mailing list when needed.
Some commitment is required, meaning the developer is responsible for his code. Opinions of other developers should be respected, but in practice a developer doing the work gets more voting power than others.

The changes include bug fixes which should be committed directly to trunk. New features and such could go to the branch.
The details should be discussed in mailing list because other developers read it.

Juha, I'm open to other suggestions. Do you have any progress with merging changes? I don't want double the work. I will send separated patches and some messages to the mailing list, probably in next week. I need to find more free time .

...as I understand, more about new branch we will discuss on the mailing list soon.

[vfclists]

FreeSparta itself was announced there. Tracking the attention of the competitor XERO Coder

... omg! what are spiral of IDEs development!
Thank you, mobile platforms! You did it again as it was in early 2000s with all the web and fancy-oop development

I am referring to announcements introducing new features in Lazarus itself  not third-party announcements. There is hardly any stuff like that. The sad thing is that few people learn about them and the effort which goes into implementing them is wasted for the bulk of the Lazarus user base.

For instance there is a new Free Pascal debugger being developed, separate from GDB which will be superior to GDB when it is completed. I only got to know about because someone had a problem and one of the core Lazarus developers told him about it.And the person who asked about it is actually an experienced Lazarus user.

The purpose of blogging is to introduce such features to existing prospective and existing users alike. I come to the forum because I have specific issues in mind. There are times when I browse at leisure, covering developer blogs etc, but there is nothing for one of my preferred coding tool Lazarus.

Every one has a time budget for getting stuff done, and when the time budget is blown, they will move on to something else. Even if they manage to fix the problem, they may not have time to document it to help others because they have already fallen behind on their original plans.

What I am saying is that an hour or two spent by a core developer writing an article documenting something or capturing the necessary screenshots saves 1000s of hours by end users who have to trial and error blindly and it is easier for end users to make time to contribute back if they don't lose time searching for the information to accomplish a task, assuming they are able to accomplish it at all.

eg, How are end users able to test new features out and report bugs if there are no regular snapshots available and building Lazarus from scratch is virtually impossible if one follows the wiki guides, said wiki guides having the effect of blowing the time you allotted to the task?

[howardpc]

However whining about your perception of what core developers are not doing does not move the Lazarus community forward. It is simply not the way to motivate volunteers.

If anything it is demotivating, since sensitive core developers will feel guilty (because they do not have the time or skill or interest in doing what you tell them they should be doing but aren't).

You may have noticed that many of the team do not post here, and may not ever read what you have written. Those who do post are the courageous ones...

Apart from the investment of time needed to engage with people who (on the whole) know far less than you about Lazarus internals and cross-platform programming in general (so you are constantly educating, correcting the same misunderstandings over and over, etc.) there is the emotional battering that often has to be taken by people who have responsibility for code and who seem to be attacked by others who did not write it and do not maintain it.

A more constructive approach would be to take some responsibility yourself. Use the bug-tracker. Offer patches. Where you find wiki entries poor or plain wrong, change them. Don't just make generalised complaints about them. You are the one who has identified the shortcoming. The wiki is public access. Spend the time you give to complaining rewriting the bad entries. That will both clarify your own understanding and help future readers, who will now have a correct wiki, even if they lack a core developer blog article (which may one day appear, but probably not as a consequence of complaining).

[marcov]

I am referring to announcements introducing new features in Lazarus itself  not third-party announcements. There is hardly any stuff like that. The sad thing is that few people learn about them and the effort which goes into implementing them is wasted for the bulk of the Lazarus user base.

The main reason is that the people that could be doing this are wasting time in pointless discussions on forums.  If you think something needs to be done, just do it instead of writing endless emails about it.

[JanRoza]

If you think something needs to be done, just do it instead of writing endless emails about it.

Isn't that what hnb did?
His problem seems to be that after doing what needed to be done he can't get his work accepted and included in Lazarus.
But seeing this discussion develop I see that at least there is some progress and communication now which is great.

[taazz]

If you think something needs to be done, just do it instead of writing endless emails about it.

Isn't that what hnb did?

yes and no.

His problem seems to be that after doing what needed to be done he can't get his work accepted and included in Lazarus.

No, his problems was that the community in general was hostile to his efforts, I haven't seen a single person from the FPC or lazarus team posting negative comments in here.

But seeing this discussion develop I see that at least there is some progress and communication now which is great.

well you know what they say .........

[rvk]

If you think something needs to be done, just do it instead of writing endless emails about it.

Isn't that what hnb did?

Marco was referring to remarks from vfclists.

His problem seems to be that after doing what needed to be done he can't get his work accepted and included in Lazarus.
But seeing this discussion develop I see that at least there is some progress and communication now which is great.

The problem with what hnb originally did was dropping a complete rewrite with integrated patches in the bugtracker (and saying: here you go). That's not how it's done. It can't work. Did you look at that patch-file You'll need to do this gradually patch by patch. And if one patch is depended on another you first need to make sure that patch is implemented first. It could even be that some patches can't make it in the standard (for some reason) and in that case there needs to be some reprogramming to make the other changes compatible. This process takes time. A new branch will work too but merging it in the end will still be a lot of work (depending if all patches are accepted).

But you're right, seeing the last few posts, this is going in the right direction.

(looking forward to a more stable docking-solution with a docked designer included )

[zeljko]

If you think something needs to be done, just do it instead of writing endless emails about it.

Isn't that what hnb did?
His problem seems to be that after doing what needed to be done he can't get his work accepted and included in Lazarus.
But seeing this discussion develop I see that at least there is some progress and communication now which is great.

Nobody said that his work won't be acceppted or anything like that. Such huge diffs cannot be merged or commited just like that.
I suppose that you don't think that we are sitting and waiting when someone will propose patches so it will be imediatelly accepted and commited. About diffs:
1. We don't want to merge any of pl_XXXXX components into lazarus (and they're part of diff).
2. Generics stuff depends on fpc 3.xx. Or I misunderstood something.
3. LCL changes must be reviewed and heavily tested before commiting into trunk, same for IDE and anchordocking changes.  That's
 why we would like to see separate patches for lcl and ide and others, so it's easy to track possible regressions via revisions.

Separate branch of lazarus would be the best scenario, and IMO it should be started asap. In that case all needed changes can be commited into that branch, tested and then merged into trunk.

[skalogryz]

I am referring to announcements introducing new features in Lazarus itself  not third-party announcements.

This one? or see "Recent Announcements" here.

What you're suggesting is already happening with GetLazarus initiative. New articles, blogs  and videos are published weekly, followed by announcements on this form and lazarus mailing list. That's why you can see a lot of positive replies from people.