Object Pascal decline?

[skalogryz]

The language and compiler itself is not in decline at all. Native support (rather than bridging) of multiple targets, like jvm and objc. Not many language can do that.

The popularity might be in decline, but it has nothing to do we the actual production use of the language. 
Successful products that were built back in the time with delphi or free pascal are still there and kicking... and no fancy sugar syntax were (are) necessary to code right.

So I guess we can say the respect is on the rise... right? To respectometer though
Maybe no, bug tracker is a respectometer - the more issues are reported, the more people are using the system.

[Avishai]

This is an interesting concept. "nsted ov mi lernin a langwaj, i'll hav them chang thu langwaj to mai tayst."

[garlar27]

....
 Maybe people should leave Object Pascal like it is and let it go.....

I agree with this last statement.

Even then, the 'LineEnding' option cannot remotely compare to the simplicity and straightfowardness of:

Code: [Select]

s='hello
world'


ok, lets see a practical use of this inside a  bigger (and maybe a little silly) context:

Code: [Select]

begin
   writeln('Hello!
What you want to do today:
1- Print resume.
2- New movement.
h- Help
q- Quit');
   repeat
      write('
Please enter your choise and press <RETURN>: ');
      Readln(AChoice);
      case AChoice of
         '1': PrintResume;
         '2': NewMovement;
         'h': ShowHelp;
         'q': Break;
      else
         writeln('Command "'+AChoice+'" not recognized
Please input a valid command');
      end;
   until FALSE;
end;
This might be OK in a SCRIPTING LANGUAGE but here I don't think so

[BeniBela]

in-block-vars are not about copying other languages, but to avoid using expired variables outside their scope. The same reason you can define local variables instead having only global ones.

And have automatically type inference.

But people who used it in other languages, do not want to miss these advantages

While some other language do:

Code: [Select]

s='hello
world'


http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,20706.msg132060.html

Just have a new option to make it accept { } code blocks instead of begin / end, that would keep the lazy curly brace fans happy and make Pascal acceptable

C is clearly superior in that aspect.

Because it has an option and you can do

Code: [Select]

#define begin {
#define end }

and then you can use begin and end in C.

[marcov]

This talk of "fixing" FPC, is like a bicycle factory only making glossy white bikes, and then naming it iBike and saying it can easily compete with Apple.

Some superficial similarities or changes won't  change the picture at all. And I think the improvements must be much more in frameworks than in language.

Language is apparently largely irrelevant, otherwise it is unexplainable that Javascript became so popular 

[Avishai]

Bravo marcov.  I couldn't agree more.  There are real issues that need to be addressed instead of 'fixing' something that isn't broken.

[BigChimp]

Just have a new option to make it accept { } code blocks instead of begin / end, that would keep the lazy curly brace fans happy and make Pascal acceptable

C is clearly superior in that aspect.

Because it has an option and you can do

Code: [Select]

#define begin {
#define end }

and then you can use begin and end in C.

Yes, very much superior. Instead of identifiers meaning the same things all over (Object) Pascal code programmers can now change stuff as they see fit, making it harder to understand code.

If this is implemented, people will still want the next big thing in language changes and we end up with something as bloated as C++.

I really don't see the benefit & agree with marcov's post. Having better, more complete, more documented libraries lead to much faster & better development.

[marcov]

Bravo marcov.  I couldn't agree more.  There are real issues that need to be addressed instead of 'fixing' something that isn't broken.

Well, and that is already a comment after that I accept both the problem (Pascal is not super popular), and the cure (Pascal must copy the rest, and then we have a chance).

I partially agree with the first, but I think that is mostly for non technical reasons.  For that reason I totally disagree with the second, with copying behavior you actually
don't fix the difference between us and "popular" languages. Interested people are invited to read my posts in the "Future of ..." thread, no need to iterate that all here.

[sam707]

ppl should start a thread on the Free Pascal Forum (not here) with "WishList" as subject

to my point of view I would greatly apreciate if FPC added a $mode option with following improvements :

I) - separate implementation parts from interface parts so we could enable parallel compilation (multithreaded until link stage)

Code: [Select]

{$MODE PasPlus}


Code: [Select]

unit Unit1;

interface

....

implementation in 'unitimpl.pp';

end.

II) - the ability to use an optional MemManager with garbage collector, as introduced in Oberon 2 language which also IS a pascal descendant language.

III) = the add of an "Event" paradigm BEFORE the Object paradigm, because as said the bible "at the Begining Was the Verb", meaning the Event is the Father of all as soon as you switch on a computer that is also an Event. This Event Paradigm is the future, to my opinion! an no language author nowadays seem to see it clearly... it might be a chance for pascal to MAKE that Next Evolution.

[jwdietrich]

Also note that "programming" is deep falling.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=pascal#q=programming&cmpt=q

or

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=pascal#q=php%2C%20html&cmpt=q

and even Android is stabilizing:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=pascal#q=android&cmpt=q

This is an important point. Internet usage is still growing, and now it are more and more non-technically oriented people who use search engines like Google or Bing. 15 years ago the situation was different, the number of internet users was much smaller, but they were in average much more interested in software development and programming languages.

What we see now may be nothing else than a simple dilution effect.

[typo]

By that reason, what appears to be a descendent curve on Google Trends can be ascendent if measured against "programming", "php" or "html" curves.

For example, I bet that Lazarus downloads are increasing.

I bet even that Lazarus is "more popular than Jesus Christ", as said John Lennon on 60's.

[jwdietrich]

By that reason, what appears to be a descendent curve on Google Trends can be ascendent if measured against "programming", "php" or "html" curves.

I think you are right. "Programming" fell in Google searches from 100% to 27%, "Lazarus Free Pascal" from 100% to 43% and "Free Pascal" from 100% to 31% (based on maximum annual values).

For example, I bet that Lazarus downloads are increasing.

You are right again, SourceForge stats show slowly increasing trends in Lazarus downloads and Free Pascal downloads (apart from some random fluctuations and an unexplained peak in december 2011 and january 2012).

[Nebula]

For example, I bet that Lazarus downloads are increasing.

Going by the Win32 downloads, there's a slight decline after a peak in interest around the time of v1.0 last summer, but holding fairly steady overall
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Windows%2032%20bits/stats/timeline?dates=2012-01-22+to+2013-11-28

Go back even farther and it looks like a constant upwards trend if smoothed out. Currently dipping downwards a little perhaps, but it can easily head skywards again.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Windows%2032%20bits/stats/timeline?dates=2004-09-03+to+2013-11-28

Edit - I see someone beat me to it 

[vicot]

Incidentally, I was horrified to discover that on (Google Groups's) comp.lang.pascal, the last post dates back to 2004!!! I am really struggling to make any sense of that.

[Leledumbo]

Could you please explain why you are so pessimistic? (unless you are trolling...)

Leave people with such a behavior. A language (implementation) won't die as long as the user exists, whatever they or the market or someone else predict.

I wonder why sourceforge mirror downloaders are mostly from Russia...