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Author Topic: Object Pascal decline?  (Read 164590 times)

janvb

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #150 on: August 29, 2014, 06:25:14 pm »
As for the title on this thread...

Borland competed with Microsoft and Lotus on the DOS days - as with many others they struggled with Windows and later .NET. VB arrived 1991, Delphi 1994, Java 1995 - the same year as Borland swapped CEO - and Anders left Borland for Microsoft in 1996. IMOH Borland never recovered ...

Borland had excellent technical solutions, but very crappy business sense and visions, and in the end their bad business desitions caused reduction in staff and stalling development on a very competive marked... the rest is just a delayed consequence.

It is a nieche for tools to attract those who don't like Cism, but well - time will show if FPC will evolve or just become a tool to preserve.

vick

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #151 on: August 30, 2014, 02:41:33 am »
Quote
It is a nieche for tools to attract those who don't like Cism
I actually found Pascal to be an excellent programming language, compared to C and C++. Which made me think why it's not more popular...

marcov

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #152 on: August 30, 2014, 11:29:25 am »
Quote
It is a nieche for tools to attract those who don't like Cism
I actually found Pascal to be an excellent programming language, compared to C and C++. Which made me think why it's not more popular...

IMHO: it simply lost its home when scientists abandoned it for more specialized tools like Matlab. If there ever was a language that was a Pascal killer, it was Matlab. Not Java, not C, not C++, but Matlab.

However it was inevitable.

Paul Breneman

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #153 on: August 30, 2014, 02:26:04 pm »
I agree with you marcov, but I keep trying to help bring scientists back (two recent examples are below).

Scientists at Northwestern University are still using Free Pascal and Lazarus (I copied some of their code for this project):
http://www.ctrlpascal.com/comedi.htm

I'm trying to show how Free Pascal is nice for native code here:
http://www.ctrlpascal.com/picoscope.htm

Two days ago I added a new Linux section at the bottom of the picoscope web page.

There is a link on that page to an interesting project (UX) that might make educational linux stuff simple and fun to start!  UX is a 18 MB (QEMU) download that works on 3 (x86) operating systems (Win, OS X, Linux).  I'd like to make something similar but larger (with Debian rather than Tiny Core Linux) with the simple tools and code on the picoscope web page (probably just a "Hello World" first with no USB).

If anyone wants to help promote Free Pascal in this way please contact me!   :)
Regards,
Paul Breneman
www.ControlPascal.com

Leledumbo

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #154 on: August 30, 2014, 03:08:01 pm »
I'm not sure what problem Python is fixing in the first place. I don't see the attraction. 

People learn it on schools, specially electronic students and it is rather easy to do test scripting in. Looking at Raspberry PI it basically have replaced BASIC as a first language. It is easy to learn and available.

I don't like it, but I respect that others use it so I am forced to learn it as well.
Yes, it does happen on my faculty as well. I have no idea what's in the head of my professor. I hope this is just an experiment because no, Python is not suitable at all as teaching tool. Forming logical way of thinking won't be easier when learning programming in Python. Unfortunately, such an experiment usually takes at least 1 semester to 1 year, sometimes more.

AlexK

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #155 on: August 31, 2014, 11:05:40 am »
I wonder why sourceforge mirror downloaders are mostly from Russia...

It has nothing to do with logic of individual users. Russian institutes chose classic Pascal as a language to teach programming to students. It was official because all institutes and schools are government-owned.
From TurboPascal era, it was considered best western technology.

Anyone who likes Pascal is called "schoolboy" or grown-up nostalgic on russian programming forums.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 11:07:25 am by AlexK »

janvb

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #156 on: August 31, 2014, 02:41:37 pm »
Have anyone considered supporting an Oxygen version of FPC?

Leledumbo

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #157 on: August 31, 2014, 03:12:36 pm »
Have anyone considered supporting an Oxygen version of FPC?
Do you mean Oxygene mode for FPC or FPC written in Oxygene?

janvb

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #158 on: August 31, 2014, 03:25:24 pm »

Do you mean Oxygene mode for FPC or FPC written in Oxygene?

The first!

skalogryz

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #159 on: August 31, 2014, 04:12:34 pm »
The first!
lol, let me hijack this with magic words "Modula" and "Oberon"

vfclists

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #160 on: August 31, 2014, 04:27:35 pm »
What Object Pascal or Pascal lacks a large enough community focused on the stuff that scientists and researchers need, ie programming language development toolkits, a language that gives you tools and libraries for developing and implementing high level languages, doing your software development in those languages you've written and dropping back down into low level Pascal and assembler when you need it.

There are so many things developed in Pascal over the years, Smalltalk, LISP and even Prolog to name a few, and even Javascript in the form of Besen, but if you want to use this stuff where do you go?

Where do you find the community that helps you develop and make progress using Pascal in your particular niche?

Delphi is also part of the problem, because it has never developed the Open Source approach that has helped other languages flourish so much, and having most Pascal developers focused on the closed environment of Windows doesn't help as well

Eg. The developers of Smart Pascal annouced that it had been open sourced and download links would appear soon, it is 3 months now and there is no link yet.

I think the original closed source culture in which it was developed it its main problem.
Lazarus 3.0/FPC 3.2.2

Leledumbo

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #161 on: August 31, 2014, 04:37:15 pm »
The first!
lol, let me hijack this with magic words "Modula" and "Oberon"
I second Oberon. Haven't found a really good compiler for Linux that can generate native executable. A2 compiler can make native executable, but very limited (must be run through aos because of special runtime linking mechanism against the runtime system).

marcov

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #162 on: August 31, 2014, 04:39:00 pm »
Have anyone considered supporting an Oxygen version of FPC?

I have failed to see the attraction of it. So no. It is also more Oberon like than really Pascal, and generally not compatible enough to consider.

marcov

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #163 on: August 31, 2014, 04:42:14 pm »
I second Oberon. Haven't found a really good compiler for Linux that can generate native executable. A2 compiler can make native executable, but very limited (must be run through aos because of special runtime linking mechanism against the runtime system).

I still miss some Modula2 aspects in Pascal. I didn't like M3 and Oberon that much. Those felt more like research projects that were to unpractical to survive. M2 was more refinement of Pascal.

janvb

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Re: Object Pascal decline?
« Reply #164 on: September 01, 2014, 01:05:47 am »
lol, let me hijack this with magic words "Modula" and "Oberon"

I don't know any of them, neither Oxygene, but Oxygene has a full integration with Visual Studio allowing you to create applications that can compete with C# WPF and move them to Android or iPad.

Where can I find those options for Modula, Oberon or Ada?


« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 01:16:24 am by janvb »

 

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