Do you agree that Lazarus needs modern graphics?

[jwdietrich]

Your font is not baroque, this one is: http://www.fontsner.com/font/BaroqueTextJF-40575.html

The New Baskerville is Baroque Antiqua, the font that you cited isn't, even if this website claims that it is. It is Fraktur, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur for more examples. And see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Baskerville for more info on the Baskerville font.

EDIT: Additional and very interesting information on different font styles is to be found at http://helzdesign.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/5-different-serifs-and-how-to-distinguish-them/

[typo]

Baroque letters were made like this one:

http://www.wallquotes.com/Images/wallart/monogramart/baroquemonogram/baroquemonogramz.png

[jwdietrich]

And this is the form of real printings from the baroque era:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vivaldis_first_edition_of_Juditha_triumphnas.jpg

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teatro_alla_moda.jpg

They are title pages from works of Antonio Vivaldi (1678 to 1741), one of the most famous italian composers of the baroque epoch.

[JuhaManninen]

typo, where did you suddenly get the Baroque ideas?
There is nothing Baroque in the current Lazarus images. Maybe you don't know much of history. Dunno.
Anyway, Lazarus does not need your images because it already has good ones. I think it has been said clearly.

You can freely modify your local copy of Lazarus. You can even fork the whole project if you want.
You can make a picture collection in a server somewhere and provide a link, but please don't copy them all here.

Do you also think we should imitate Microsoft in the graphics? How much they pay you?

[jwdietrich]

There is nothing Baroque in the current Lazarus images.

You are right, we don't need a Baroque style and actually we don't need this debate.

[typo]

Sorry, I thought this was a debate.

I know enough of history.

[JuhaManninen]

Sorry, I thought this was a debate.

Yes, it was a debate but I was wondering where Baroque suddenly popped to your mind.
The Greek pillar was the only old figure and it is like 2000 years older than Baroque.

Juha

[typo]

So you are re-opening the discussion about baroque? Or simply informing the official opinion about the matter?

[JuhaManninen]

So you are re-opening the discussion about baroque? Or simply informing the official opinion about the matter?

I don't know, I think I should be sleeping. Tomorrow I should finally do some Lazarus coding again.

About the images, the "official" opinion seems to be that there is no need for changing them.
This whole thing bursted from the web design project. I think it is natural that new people want to renew EVERYTHING, but it is not always good. Later comes understanding about why things were done the way they are.
There are some truly neglected parts in Lazarus but the splash-screen is not one of them.

On the other hand we are very lucky to have many graphically talented people around this project.
How to channel that talent and energy, I don't know. At least it must be something else than new splash-screens.

[typo]

Splash screens are simply an alibi. Personally, I like this one:

[JJVillamor]

My opinion is that Lazarus could have a lot of logos, even a lot of names, or it could change often, but the soul of the project would not change.

Appearance is important, but the truth is that it is not our main matter, so it could change at every week in order to be updated or match the taste of some sponsor, for instance.

Lazarus could have a lot of faces to the user, he/she could choose it. The community could have fun creating faces to Lazarus.

like the google logo(of sorts) at the top of its homepage which changes everyday?

No. The appearance is part of a brand which is important even if the brand is not very well known due to advertising and other issues. Logos and images are an integral part of a brand.

Advertising companies that sponsor us would be a whole different thing. The advertisement would then use the sponsor's logo and other contents.

Wouldn't that appear as some kind of a nag screen?

I don't know, I think I should be sleeping. Tomorrow I should finally do some Lazarus coding again.

About the images, the "official" opinion seems to be that there is no need for changing them.
This whole thing bursted from the web design project. I think it is natural that new people want to renew EVERYTHING, but it is not always good. Later comes understanding about why things were done the way they are.
There are some truly neglected parts in Lazarus but the splash-screen is not one of them.

On the other hand we are very lucky to have many graphically talented people around this project.
How to channel that talent and energy, I don't know. At least it must be something else than new splash-screens.

I don't think that any changes in the splash screen is necessary or top priority. My post #25 where I thought that simply changing the png file would do the trick was wrong.
According to the README.TXT file

Creating a lazarus resource can easily be done by the lazres program.
If you have not yet compiled lazres, go to the tools directory and type make.

1. bookmark.lrs

cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres bookmark.lrs sourceeditor/*.png


2. components_images.lrs

cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres components_images.lrs @components_images_list.txt


3. laz_images.lrs

cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres laz_images.lrs @laz_images_list.txt
rm ../main.ppu


4. splash.lrs

cd <lazarusdir>/images
./tools/lazres splash_logo.lrs splash_logo.png
...

So maybe those who are interested in changing the splash screen can do it themselves. Maybe a separate thread for this purpose is better.

[taazz]

just a few things I have acquired working with various art studios to keep in mind when talking about logos.

1) a logo can be anything but it is better to have some kind of vectorial minimalistic design that portrays the essence than a full picture.
2) a logo must unique and easily recognizable.
3) colors should not be part of the logo it self

those rules create dynamic and long lasting logos with the ability to adapt easily to new trends.

Personally I hate the running cheetah as a logo it is ok on a web page to show the idea behind the selection but a more dynamic one must be chosen the foot print is a good example the problem with it is that it does not portray the essence with out the cheetah, the cheetah face in a gear is closer to a true logo, as for the Greek pillar its nothing more than a copycat from delphi and although I understand that there should be a connection between the two, the logo is not the place to make such a connection.

To make things clear what I am talking about take a look on the postgreSQL logo. That is a logo that can be used everywhere not only on a web site.

[JuhaManninen]

1) a logo can be anything but it is better to have some kind of vectorial minimalistic design that portrays the essence than a full picture.
2) a logo must unique and easily recognizable.
3) colors should not be part of the logo it self

those rules create dynamic and long lasting logos with the ability to adapt easily to new trends.

Yes you are right.
The splash-screen pic looks good (IMO) and has nice color but it is not a logo.
Now we don't have one single established logo. The paw, foot print, is used in many places. I think it would be a simple enough shape for an official logo.

Still, I don't see any big problems with the current situation. The pics are established and recognized by people, even if they are not "logos".
A worse thing would happen if everything old was thrown away, as some people were planning to do.

[itmitica]

Creating a new identity for Lazarus is tricky business.

Let's take the existing tokens separately.

The cheetah and the paw can apply to : animal care, animal shelter, safari trips.
The Greek column can apply to : history, architecture.
The cog can apply to: engineering.
The Lazarus name has religious and metaphorical meaning.

Putting those together, the splash screen created a now known association, by telling a story.


I'm not sure this story can be easily expressed by a minimalistic design.

The cheetah in a cog, visually, doesn't have what it takes. The same goes for the paw in a circle.

Cheetah on a pole, the word Lazarus with the red band bellow, these don't fit the description either.


So, the related logo, as it is the case with Windows, Apple, Android, Ruby, it's out of the question.

What's left is searching for an abstract and catchy design, the same as Mac (faces), Linux, PostgreSQL.

But this probably means a rupture created in the minds of those already committed to using Lazarus.

And it also means a great deal of design work and it would take a high level of community agreement upon the new symbols.


The task isn't easy, but, it seems that Lazarus is already on the path on searching a stronger brand. All it's left is the patience and the hard work. 

--
Mitică

[Martin_fr]

Creating a new identity for Lazarus is tricky business.

You are aware, that so far none of the developpers want a new logo or splash screen.

And that the argument of modern/trendy/etc has not made a difference to it.

Further more attributes like modern/trendy are usually set by advertisement (like white earplugs for mp3 -- who would have thought of white before).

Only in rare cases something catches on as trend without the need of a campeicn.

Since we can not pay a campeicn ourself, we have 3 options:
- leave it
- copy / lean-on somebody else's design (IMHO not good)
- create a random NOT YET trendy image, and hope to win the lottery

Let's take the existing tokens separately.

The cheetah and the paw can apply to : animal care, animal shelter, safari trips.
The Greek column can apply to : history, architecture.
The cog can apply to: engineering.
The Lazarus name has religious and metaphorical meaning.

Putting those together, the splash screen created a now known association, by telling a story.

Strange, I never read any story into the splash screen.

I also have in most cases other associations entirely.

e.g. in the cheetah I see a dominant element (top of the food chain / king (despite that word is usually associated to lion) of it's environment.

Cheetah on TOP of a column: amplifies this / deity like

Therefore the splash screen immediately gave me the appearance of a product that is a major player.

But, yes I see that people con read different stories into a symbol. The old window flag, with 4 colors somehow reminded me of a circus (not sure why). Tell that to microsoft, they will be exited (the new one 4 color-less panels, associates tiles in a bath room...


I never really read anything into the name (it was just a name) until I read the history. 
In todays world many names are NOT associating the product to the original meaning of the word (I never thought to do my grocery shopping in an apple store), And with other names there is a meaning, but you need to read up, to get it. (eg they are abbreviations like BMW and not everyone knows the full meaning)

I'm not sure this story can be easily expressed by a minimalistic design.

The cheetah in a cog, visually, doesn't have what it takes. The same goes for the paw in a circle.

Cheetah on a pole, the word Lazarus with the red band bellow, these don't fit the description either.

So, the related logo, as it is the case with Windows, Apple, Android, Ruby, it's out of the question.

How do an
- apple
- penguin
- flag with 4 colors (then circle with 4 colors, now 4 panels (wtindows)

associate with an operating system at all?
They are random symbols, later associated to a product

Our current logos and images are not one bit less.

What's left is searching for an abstract and catchy design, the same as Mac (faces), Linux, PostgreSQL.

The paw and coq are exactly that

The task isn't easy, but, it seems that Lazarus is already on the path on searching a stronger brand. All it's left is the patience and the hard work. 

Again, before you go on a search: Convince those who will decide, that it is needed.
Otherwise you can find whatever you want, it will not do any good.

I am NOT convinced.
I have not seen any one else of the developer team indicating that they are.


-------------------
What may need to be done, is to collect the CURRENT identity, document it, and ensures it is always applied.

Like ensure, we use the same (the CURRENTLY used one) font for the word lazarus in all places.