Small questions of a "visitor"

[KpjComp]

Can I install both Lazarus and CT

Yes, everything for Codetyhon get's installed into it's own directory, on windows this is C:\codetyphon

[Knipfty]

Is there any downside to using it?

[KpjComp]

Is there any downside to using it?

Only a few I can think of is that it's based on a release cycle, rather than svn, but saying that it's pretty up-to-date anyway.  Oh, and because of all the extra components the download is bigger.  Also because the directory is fixed, you couldn't say have different versions of codetyphon installed.

I'd say there is more upsides than downsides though, eg. out the box you can cross-compile.
It also comes with a good selection of components, the LAVA controls are pretty neat, check out the demos.

[Knipfty]

Thanks!  I just got it downloaded.  I also copied it over to dropbox so it be be home before I get there.  Size does effect me.  I just bulit a brand new computer.  Fastest IvyBridge, 16 GB RAM, SSD drive c:, and 7 TB drive E (RAID 5).

It sounds like I can install it at home and not affect my current development.  And they switch over later on.  I like the idea of developing with 32 bit Lazarus and compoling a 64 bit app or Linux at a later date.

Thanks again

[avra]

Can I install both Lazarus and CT on the same computer?  Are there any downsides to using it?

No, that would conflict both. Hopefully this issue will be addressed in the future. For now, you need to uninstall Lazarus before installing CT. Use virtual machine if you need both. You also need to install CT as admin. Otherwise you get empty dirs. Besides what's beeing said, the only downfall for me is that toolbar speed buttons and component palette default layout has been changed. That will probably be addressed when this new IDE layout gets polished: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,16736.45.html.

[KpjComp]

No, that would conflict both

Strange, I've not had any issues.

Saying that I used CT & fpcup, and I think fpcup sets up seperate config settings etc.

[TheBlackSheep]

In Windows you can sort of switch between two copies of CT by renaming the folder for each before each launch, i.e. just rename the one you want to use to codetyphon before launching, I've kept two installer directories (to be able to reinstall if necessary) - CodetyphonIns_250 and CodeTyphonIns_270  - after installing the 250 version into "c:\codeyphon", rename it codetyphon_250 and then install the _270 version - as long as you keep your project development separate (i.e. have a "c:\development" folder with subdirectories for projects, extra components etc).  You can then just rename (or copy) the compiled version to _270 and rename the _250 one back again.

It's useful sometimes if you're trying to see if it's your own code thats gone awry or an included updated component or even FPC that might be causing an issue as CodeTyphon is always updated to the latest SVN versions of FPC and components. I suppose the further the apart the versions are the less possible this will be as opening a project that's developed the latest CT with an older version of Lazarus may report all sorts of issues.

[avra]

No, that would conflict both

Strange, I've not had any issues.

I've seen many CT installation issues reported in CT forum and in 9 out of 10 cases the problem was either existing Lazarus (fixed by uninstall) or setup started as non-admin.

Quote from CT team member: Ct cannot co-exist in the same PC with othe installations of FreePascal and Lazarus IDE.
http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/installation-setup/1912-installation-problem-on-win-7?start=6#2281

[KpjComp]

Hi @avra,

Like I said I'm co-existing with FPCUP's version, here I think @Bigchimp made it so that all config's are independent of a normal Lazarus Install, so this might be the reason I don't have any issues co-existing.

[BigChimp]

I've seen many CT installation issues reported in CT forum and in 9 out of 10 cases the problem was either existing Lazarus (fixed by uninstall) or setup started as non-admin.

Quote from CT team member: Ct cannot co-exist in the same PC with othe installations of FreePascal and Lazarus IDE.
http://www.pilotlogic.com/sitejoom/index.php/forum/installation-setup/1912-installation-problem-on-win-7?start=6#2281

As KpjComp correctly said, fpcup installs fpc/Lazarus separately from regular Lazarus/FPC. How?

• FPC bootstrap compiler and required binutils (make.exe etc) go into a separate directory, by default under c:\development. For compilation/installation, fpcup disregards the existing PATH; it explicitly uses the fpcup-installed binutils (or the directory indicated by the user). This means fpcup doesn't depend on existing fpc compilers, make, unzip, etc.
• FPC/Lazarus source/executables go into separate directories, by default under c:\development\. This means that it won't interfere with CT/regular Lazarus if they install elsewhere.
• On Linux/Unix/OSX, a separate wrapper for fpc is written that specifically excludes any existing default/system wide fpc.cfg (e.g. in /etc/fpc.cfg), making the compiler independent from other FPC compilers. On Windows, there is no need for this. This means that fpcup is not hindered by any changes in any fpc.cfg outside of its own compiler directory.
• fpcup creates a separate directory (primary config path) for Lazarus settings. It creates desktop shortcuts (Windows) or start scripts (Linux/Unix/OSX) in the home directory to start up Lazarus with those settings. This keeps fpcup Lazarus settings separate from other Lazarus installs

This probably explains why you can have one or more fpcup-controlled Lazarus installs coexisting peacefully with a CT install.

CT developers are more than welcome to look at how ludob & I implemented this... and even adapt fpcup to their needs, if they require it. Last time I looked, CT used batch scripts to manage the installs etc.
While I really admire CT developers' perseverance in getting those right and maintaining them, I got sick of dealing with Windows cmd limitations and having to port over scripts to e.g. bash, so that was actually the reason for writing fpcup.
(Additional goodies in fpcup: svn support, compiling packages, setting help path, modular approach, cross compiler support...)
No problem in giving them additional details, please feel free to contact me via this forum or via a PM.

Thanks,
BigChimp

Edit: typos for clarification

[avra]

Like I said I'm co-existing with FPCUP's version, here I think @Bigchimp made it so that all config's are independent of a normal Lazarus Install, so this might be the reason I don't have any issues co-existing.

Thanks to you I have learned something new today, and that's always a good thing. FPCUP has my attention now and I will try it first time I catch some free time.

[gjpneac]

Hello,

Sorry to disturb you still. But I have to continue my Lazarus's visit.

Firstly : updates in one minute : Yes if you update only Lazarus ! But, I had written "To build lazarus_1.1.37083-0_amd64.deb, fpc-src_2.6.1-120605_amd64.deb and fpc_2.6.1-120605_amd64.deb : 30 minutes min.". This means that I also update FPC.

I suppose that the practice "One minute" which you recommend is the following one ->  "c:\lazarus\svn-bin\svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk c:\lazarus\svn" then Tools -> Build Lazarus
But the installed additional components are not any more taken into account during lazarus's restart (look at attchments, please).

But under Windows, if you download a snapshot (exe), fpc is also updated. And to update fpc ? Also one minute ? Maybe under Windows (to see)... And you recompile it how as well under Linux as under Windows... My procedure lasts 30 minutes under Linux. My pratice : http://lazarus-fr.espace-malin.fr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44:installer-lazarus-et-freepascal-svn-sous-ubuntu&catid=2:installation-de-lazarus&Itemid=4 (In french but linux command lines).

It is possible to make shorter ? I rewrite it : to update lazarus/ fpc it requires at home 30 minutes. There is maybe a means to have an  otherwise practice but I still have not in spite of my numerous searches for the another procedure. What an impractical documentation ! The "one minute" I set at once in equal result.

Concretely and in a infallible way, somebody can give me the supernatural method to update Lazarus and FPC, under Windows and Linux by finding all my components installed obviously.

Secondly, I maintain: the display of Tcalendar with the number of the weeks under Linux is impossible.

Thus, I was indeed made my own TCalendar. Somebody can explain to me  the method of development of Team Lazarus : I read in the calendar.pp file:
Calendar.pp
-------------------
Component Library Calendar Component
Initial Revision  : Wed Dec 05 2001

This component is 10-year-old and it works still badly under Linux ? Then, I see 2 possible explanations:

• The component was badly finished, what is not very probable
• Let be nobody maintains components. It's possible ?

Explain to a little bit simple-minded programmer why a component so basic as a Tcalendar created in 2001 and weakening in 2012 while he appears in components by default of Lazarus Components Panel. There is not a small problem ?

Beforehand thank you. Regards.

[Leledumbo]

I suppose that the practice "One minute" which you recommend is the following one ->  "c:\lazarus\svn-bin\svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk c:\lazarus\svn" then Tools -> Build Lazarus
But the installed additional components are not any more taken into account during lazarus's restart (look at attchments, please).

1. Ensure to check "clean all"
2. Some packages might not be compilable again, due to changes in the compiler, in that case the package code has to be updated

But under Windows, if you download a snapshot (exe), fpc is also updated. And to update fpc ? Also one minute ? Maybe under Windows (to see)... And you recompile it how as well under Linux as under Windows... My procedure lasts 30 minutes under Linux

Probably you're talking about the WHOLE process. An update should  take only:

svn up fpc lazarus // assuming you have both in current directory
cd fpc
make clean all && make install ... // add your options here
cd ../lazarus
make clean all && make install ... // add your options here
cd ..

[BigChimp]

Secondly, I maintain: the display of Tcalendar with the number of the weeks under Linux is impossible.

Thus, I was indeed made my own TCalendar. Somebody can explain to me  the method of development of Team Lazarus : I read in the calendar.pp file:
Calendar.pp
-------------------
Component Library Calendar Component
Initial Revision  : Wed Dec 05 2001

This component is 10-year-old and it works still badly under Linux ?

Thanks for letting us know of your problems - I thought the huge thread here by now might have scared you away

Regarding the calendar component: welcome to open source development.

I think it's good that the initial (=FIRST) commit (not necessarily the LAST) is from so long ago. It shows the component has had a chance to be tested and mature. You could always have a look at the changes in the component using svn log (or svn blame)

Regardless, if you think that component has a bug, please submit an issue to the bug tracker, along with all information (operating system/distribution, widgetset type) and a short compilable example program that shows the problem.
Also a problem description that says what's wrong; something like "is impossible" is too vague (I think you wrote a more detailed description earlier).

I would suggest that you don't make your own Tcalendar but help fix the one everybody uses. Otherwise the next person will have the same problem, complain, write his own component etc and Lazarus does not get improved.

So please report the bug and help get it fixed for you and others.

If you have a patch (see http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Creating_A_Patch) or an idea on how to fix the bug, please also write that in the bug description.

Thanks.

[gjpneac]

OK BigChimp,

I am of willingness. But I ask for the reverse. I am maybe a newbie in Lazarus but not in the programming.

If I say to you that Tcalendar under Linux does not agree to show the number of the weeks, I am not going to make a relationship of 12 pages. You put it on TForm. You change the parameter to display the number of the weeks and you notice the problem !

[..]

Why do not to create TCalendar more independent from the OS or more exactly, basing on simpler and more reliable widgets ? Finally, I took time to look attentively at your forum and  especially your bug tracker. The breakdowns on the graphic components are redundant at Lazarus. They appear, are corrected and return ( the same) some month later. It is significant. No?

[..]

It is the reaction of your members that seems to me strange. I have never met it in a forum Java. [..]


Good day.
Regards.