Lazarus compatible Linux ?

[JuhaManninen]

zacheus, uhhh, so much whining!

I also complain and whine sometimes when I am frustrated, but you just continue and continue and continue ...
With the same energy you would have learned lots of code in Lazarus sources and maybe even fixed a bug there.
Besides, who you try to convince exactly? You want to make everybody understand that Lazarus sucks. And then what? Make them all go away from this project.

My client needs to read the contents of a TMemo without being allowed to "go inside".

How old is your client? Is he also 13 and lives next door to you?

There are some companies that actually use Lazarus for critical commercial development. Often they support Lazarus development for example by letting a knowledgeable worker spend his paid working time for Lazarus.
If Lazarus is critical for your business and you can't fix a bug yourself, you can also offer (a little) money, a bounty, for it.

The signal/noise ratio of this kind of threads are very low. They take time and energy from everybody who reads them.
It is amazing to see the opposite behavior of some long time developers. Their signal/noise ratio is very high. All energy is spent for constructive actions. Mail posts are dense and to the point. Lots of code commits, no noise.
I am clearly not such a developer. Replying to this thread is a proof of it.

I must think of my determination to use Lazarus. Is this reasonable?

Yes. Nobody forces you to use Lazarus. Please use it only if you find it useful.

Juha

[Leledumbo]

Enough ? almost...   This may be because I have not the daily snapshot...

Whoops, sorry. Looks like your compiler doesn't support dynamic array creation via <dynamic array type>.Create syntax. The regex still works fine. If you analyze the error, those lines point to dynamic array (TStringArray.Create) in the for-in loop. Simply change it to:

Code: [Select]

...
var
  i: Integer;
  dsa: TStringArray;
...
  SetLength(dsa,4);
  dsa[0] := '3D:F2:C9:A6:B3:4F';
  dsa[1] := '3D:F2:C9:A6:B3:4F';
  dsa[2] := '127.0.0.1';
  dsa[3] := 'localhost:8080'
  for s in dsa do begin
    ...
  end;
I do like to use svn/development/snapshot version because if everybody uses stable version, no one can report bugs in the development version, which could make the next stable version even buggier. Besides, I've got newer features

With Lazarus (like other), error is easy... and I stay on my position. When I tested -and this is not so long-, it was not working and was admitted. Besides the new unit is not a correction or an evolution of old units. But another. The old units still exist... with a new name It's not "as playable"... no more than installing snapshot every day (on linux) which correct the stable version ... which is no longer. But you have no choice ; the stable version buggy, or the latest snapshot. Like QT says PlusPlus. No, I don't agree. Management of updates and stable versions is different.

Tell me any big software projects out there whose stable version is really stable (i.e. no bugs). And if you just want fixes, the daily snapshot contains download for stable version fixes only, no additional features, no additional bugs (except the ones that aren't yet fixed).

Usual stable components, a doc update, a user feedback ... is it possible? I doubt it and I'm annoyed.

I use Lazarus since version 0.9.26 ... and very few stable improvements are visible.. A TStaticText can work on Monday, be unable to manage BorderSpacing on Tuesday.  Has it done it one day?

Again, report, that's what we have a bugtracker for. You've used Lazarus since 0.9.26, so why don't you report bugs since that time? Your number of posts here is also low, which I could understand that you don't really understand how the development process works. Don't expect everyone also experience the same thing as you because everyone has different needs when using this tool. I never use TStaticText, so I never know what's wrong with it. Whereas if you report it, a bug could be solved in a couple of hours/minutes (yes, I've reported bugs whose fixes available in a couple of minutes later).

A TEdit must follow the needs of the developer, as well on Windows, on Linux, on Mac, on....  A TEdit ! a common and essential component ! That upsets you? I'm sorry. Not as much as me finishing a "long" program with details of ergonomics unmanageable.

Aaaand... what' wrong with TEdit? I use it almost everytime, and it fulfills my need. Color changing, disable on certain condition, filtering characters allowed to enter, those are working.

My client needs to read the contents of a TMemo without being allowed to "go inside". No scaret, no Drag&drop but ScrollBar active...as well in Windows, in Linux, or Mac !  Is this an exorbitant demand ?  We must make an inventory of basics components to see if we can make a TMemo inert while leaving it completely legible to the user? OS by OS ?

No, if you've ever asked for it. Haven't you?

I must think of my determination to use Lazarus. Is this reasonable?

Feel free to leave if you don't think Lazarus suits your needs. It suits me (VERY WELL), and I won't leave. So is with hundred thousands of hobbyist, professionals, students, teachers, etc. out there.

[braximo]

He he he. In short IT WORKS!!! 

[irfanbagus]

come on guys, you know lazarus is not that perfect. it can't write code for me. it can't fix my bug. even worse, i have to click run button manually.

it's only help when i have to create my demo application in 15 minutes and help me write my game(-like) framework so i can finish my games with 9 different variants in 2 weeks!

you see, it's not that perfect.

[Takeda]

come on guys, you know lazarus is not that perfect. it can't write code for me. it can't fix my bug. even worse, i have to click run button manually.

it's only help when i have to create my demo application in 15 minutes and help me write my game(-like) framework so i can finish my games with 9 different variants in 2 weeks!

you see, it's not that perfect.

To IrfanBagus :

1. Are you serious? If yes, why you still be a member of this forum?

2. None perfect in this world! The only GOD is perfect! Are you GOD?

3. I think you NEVER wrote the codes at ALL ! So you can Say :

" .. you know Lazarus is not perfect.. ".

If you're programmer then you'll know, FACT NO STABLE CODES IN THIS WORLD! That's the reason why exist "bug tracker" and "bug fixes".

... it's only help when i have to create my demo application in 15 minutes..

4. By this way I'm so sure, you never wrote the codes! You only want to be called as "Computer Programmer" but your hand never have capable to be programmer!   

5. I'm so sure you never buy genuine "development tool", so you never know the Lazarus is so amazing, even I guarantee Lazarus could be side by side to be compared with many commercial Development tool. DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF "DEVELOPMENT TOOL", HUH? 

6. I'm curious, and I would like to ask you -> "HOW LONG YOU ALREADY STAYED AS COMPUTER PROGRAMMER??" 
   (AS NOTE FOR YOU, I STARTED MY PROGRAMMING SINCE BORLAND C++ 2.0  )

[JuhaManninen]

> To IrfanBagus : Are you serious?

No Takeda, he was not serious. It may be a language or culture problem if you didn't notice it.

Juha

[irfanbagus]

1. Are you serious? If yes, why you still be a member of this forum?

i believe that call sarcasm :p
it's far from perfect, but i still used because lazarus MUCH BETTER than other alternative. my story is true, i use lazarus for quick and dirty coding and for well planned one. it's help a lot. my voip-like application event only need less than 10 lines change to port from linux to windows.

I'm curious, and I would like to ask you -> "HOW LONG YOU ALREADY STAYED AS COMPUTER PROGRAMMER??"

i don't quietly remember, but i think my first prog language is basic using gw-basic

[zacheus]

How old is your client? Is he also 13 and lives next door to you?

Pupils [8-10 years]. The color codes, ergonomics are extremely important. I am a teacher and developer of an educational free software. Three other teachers are working with me. We deliberated,  hesitating between Java, QT / C++ and Lazarus. I have lobbied strongly for Lazarus...

Besides, who you try to convince exactly? You want to make everybody understand that Lazarus sucks. And then what? Make them all go away from this project.

No.

You've used Lazarus since 0.9.26, so why don't you report bugs since that time? Your number of posts here is also low, which I could understand that you don't really understand how the development process works.

I used an other login. I in this time, I had the arrogance to assert that the invisibility of the columns of Stringgrids did not work. Worse, the contents of the column n+1 replaced that of the column n provoking of serious mistakes of programming. Obviously despicable for a 'professional' software. I have never seen it somewhere else. It was corrected in 0.9.28 ! at best !! (look at attachmemnt) . Two years to correct this bug with a lot of denial ! We guaranteed me that width: = 0 was the solution... except that we could not prevent the elargissement of these invisibled columns. Another problem of management of the events.
The reaction of your forum was the one from what I benefit at present : the criticism is not allowed. As for StringGrid (0.924, 0.9.26), I say today that a lot of usual components do not answer my needs which do not seem to me extravagant. Which reaction for this simple reproductible assertion. You  want to persuade me that a Linux program cannot make as well as its Windows version. Look at Java, look at C ++ / QT!

Yes. Nobody forces you to use Lazarus. Please use it only if you find it useful.

It's true. So goodbye... and definitively this time. I wish however a good continuation of your project.

Sorry for my bad English and the lack of nuances  which translates 'brutally' my thought which seems aggressive. The only foreign language which I practise correctly is German. I' m french.


Regards. Zacheus

[LA.Center]

Of course you can criticize, that what makes the product better and better, and I do REALLY understand your frustration, and I am still willing to help you the best I can, but it is perfectly normal that the Lazarus community will be sensitive about the way it is criticized simply out of respect to the developers.

I suggest that instead of saying:

this and this does not work and that sucks

ask a question:

I could not make this and this work, please help.

And here are many developers who will even create a patch for your problem right away to get you going.

[zacheus]

Of course you can criticize, that what makes the product better and better, and I do REALLY understand your frustration, and I am still willing to help you the best I can, but it is perfectly normal that the Lazarus community will be sensitive about the way it is criticized simply out of respect to the developers.

I fully understand that language as ambitious as Lazarus has problems and it takes longer to resolve. The community is smaller than that of C + +, Qt or Java.

Before you leave, I want to focus not on a frustration but a simple statement... and without aggression
What I resent most is how issues are addressed. The last response is significant and sums up the philosophy deployed.

The problems I mentioned are real and reproductible.
Dialogue is always the same:
- Why would you do that? We must do otherwise
- Yes but that does not give the result I want
- This is normal because widgetset does not permit
- ?
- We will not rewrite  Lazarus for your case (TStringGrid, TEdit). So why CustomDraw (TEdit ,...)?
- If you are not satisfied, look elsewhere ....

Obviously during the dialogue, there will 'afficianodos' heartily:
- Me, it works
- It's great
- There's no problem
- I used all EDI in the world and they're all the same
- Learn to program

I program sometimes without obtaining the help of a forum : http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,15629.msg84222.html#msg84222  The subject was to create a component (Lin/Win and probably Mac (not tested) ) to retrieve the version of the project, component  interactive with the IDE (CsDesigning mode). Original and unexpected therefore impossible.

This is my last message on this forum.
Bye. Regards. Zacheus

[marcov]

I fully understand that language as ambitious as Lazarus has problems and it takes longer to resolve. The community is smaller than that of C + +, Qt or Java.

These are mostly projects run with (lots of) fulltimers. The dynamics of such projects are totally different. Problems, if accepted resolve faster, but usually the developer that takes the decisions is hard to talk to, and directions other than the company funding the development are next to impossible.

Before you leave, I want to focus not on a frustration but a simple statement... and without aggression
What I resent most is how issues are addressed. The last response is significant and sums up the philosophy deployed.

The problems I mentioned are real and reproductible.

The problem is you don't present them in a way that others can verify that easily. Where are the sources, the bugreports etc? You mostly present one-liner opinions and
cryptic/vague bug descriptions. This causes forummembers to put you in the "ranter" category, and respond defensively accordingly, simply because the input is not really constructive.

Specially if you did an earlier attempt to bring this to the attention, bugreports (from the bugtracker) are important, since their history might reveal why they were closed, and it can be
checked if this is still valid. (specially since you seem to use a version way older than an year). Similarly, minimal example programs can be used by interested people to test if the problem still persist
in current versions, and to narrow it down.

The fact that you compare a lot with other systems doesn't really help either. Other systems have fundamental limitations too (and I bet in the QT forum the reaction will be similar if you touch them). Such comparisons are rarely constructive.

Of course people could react nicer on all this, but on a forum like this with a high number of users coming from Delphi demanding immediate fixes for all their problems, forummembers devel a thick skin that can be sometimes mistaken for apathy or defensiveness. 

But again, the attitude and low real fact/reproducability count doesn't help. There are several members in this thread know to debug database related functionality, and you haven't really compelled them to really look into the issue. That is a loss. For you, for the project, and for users like you that might come later.

[Takeda]

> To IrfanBagus : Are you serious?

No Takeda, he was not serious. It may be a language or culture problem if you didn't notice it.

Juha

I'm so happy to hear that. Thank you Mr. Juha to make it clear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


to IrfanBagus (but pointed to zacheus ) :

i believe that call sarcasm :p

No, I don't think so. Coz I'm not push or bullying anything + anyone.
I just got mad condition with zacheus statement then continue read your statement!

You know, coz I believe FreePascal + Lazarus is the best project around the world, even you allowed to produce Commercial + Closed Project using FreePascal + Lazarus (read the licenses).

You know, that Lazarus is developed rapidly and well maintained.

i don't quietly remember, but i think my first prog language is basic using gw-basic

If Yes and It's true, then you would know, FreePascal + Lazarus is the best !
Even you could use many "syntax" mode e.g. "delphi". So, you could adopt many codes which written using "delphi" paradigm of syntax.
Lazarus provide flexible syntax handling. It's make myself comfortable.

If you think Lazarus is not perfect then I believe you come from the wrong way!
Please change your paradigm. Set it to normal and also set your paradigm into "cross-platform" paradigm. I believe you'll find like what I feel.


Also as notice :

I believe FreePascal + Lazarus was built by many hearts of developers of FreePascal + Lazarus. And this is would make FreePascal + Lazarus is "perfect".



-Takeda-

[Leledumbo]

@Takeda:
What irfanbagus said is called irony figure of speech, talking something in a way that is contradictive with the truth

[Takeda]

@Takeda:
What irfanbagus said is called irony figure of speech, talking something in a way that is contradictive with the truth

Hihihihihi.
Toi biet dieu do, Mr. Leledumbo, coz Mr. Juha already make it clear.


-Takeda-