Had to give up on Lazarus [SOLVED]

[PaulW]

I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with Lazarus.  I normally work in Visual Basic or MS-Access (did Turbo Pascal many years ago).  I was looking for a development platform to replace VB and MS-A that I could compile for either Windows or Linux.  After looking at several development programs I decided to give Lazarus a go.  After all, I had previous experience with Pascal and the IDE looked very good.  I really didn't expect the Lazarus IDE to be as "good" as VB, since VB has an excellent IDE and development tools.  However, I felt that giving up a few bells and whistles would be worth it to get a multi-OS development system.

Well, to make a long story not quite as long as it could be...  In installed Lazarus and thought I would get started by re-writing a small time card program that I had developed in VB (using MS-Access data back-end).  Well, needless to say, I immediately fell into the well-documented problem of not having a 64-bit ODBC driver.  [I'm using Lazarus 0.9.30 2.4.2 on a 64-bit Vista PC]  After trying nearly everything I could find to get Lazarus to like the MS-Access .mdb file I gave up on that route.

I then decided to give SQLite a try.  I successfully converted the .mdb file to .db3 and proceeded.  The first problem I had was not understanding that I had to copy sqlite3.dll to the C:\lazarus and/or C:\lazarus\fpc\2.4.2\bin\i386-win32 folders before I installed sqlite3laz.  After several failed attempts I finally got it right.  [I still don't know for sure if sqlite3.dll belongs in one or both of those folders.  Seems that the installation program for sqlite3laz ought to take care of the .dll problem during the install.)

Then I got the infamous SIGSEGV error.  After more searching on the forum I thought the COMODO issue might be the source of my problem.  Sure enough, the error went away after uninstalling COMODO (temporarily using Windows Firewall now).  Easier said than done.

Finally, I was able to get the TSQLite3Connection and the TDatasource coordinated to populate a TDBGrid.  So far, so good.  Then I needed to create a TDBListBox and struggled for quite some time without success.  So, back to searching the forum.  Much to my chagrin, I found our that the TDListBox just plain doesn't work.  That was the last straw.  I could not move forward with my application without the ability to create something as fundamental as a data-bound list box.

As a result of all this, I ended up abandoning my efforts to learn and use Lazarus.  Perhaps I gave up prematurely, but I just couldn't continue to spend hours and hours at each step of the way. Yes, I'm disappointed - not sure where to go from here.  I'll probably stay with
VB and MS-A and give up on my hope of multi-OS developing.

-Paul

[eny]

You'll have to learn Lazarus like you learned VB and if you only have a (Turbo) Pascal background (as in: no Delphi background), that will take time and effort.
Turbo Pascal <> Lazarus.
VB <> Lazarus.
The Wiki is quite extensive and someone translated a big tutorial to English the other day (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,12926.0.html).

[Jishaxe]

That's a shame. It sounds like Lazarus is frustating you. Maybe you should come back later, Lazarus is contantly being updated

[eny]

Maybe you should come back later, Lazarus is contantly being updated

The latest stable version 0.9.30 already does a pretty good job and has lots of built in features (like string handling functions...).

[Jishaxe]

Maybe you should come back later, Lazarus is contantly being updated

The latest stable version 0.9.30 already does a pretty good job and has lots of built in features (like string handling functions...).

Pfft.

[Marc]

If you gave up, why bother to post here. (and I ask myself if it makes sense to reply, you're probably gone)

...
Well, to make a long story not quite as long as it could be...  In installed Lazarus and thought I would get started by re-writing a small time card program that I had developed in VB (using MS-Access data back-end).  Well, needless to say, I immediately fell into the well-documented problem of not having a 64-bit ODBC driver.  [I'm using Lazarus 0.9.30 2.4.2 on a 64-bit Vista PC]  After trying nearly everything I could find to get Lazarus to like the MS-Access .mdb file I gave up on that route.

On VB this is simple, everything is 32bit. But when MS introduces a 64bit windows they introduced a lot of 32bit vs. 64bit dualities by making it possible to run 32bit apps on a 64bit system. Therefore you have a 32bit odbc  and a 64bit odbc. For the simple reason that you cannot load a 64/32bit dll into a 32/64bit exe. This is exactly the same reason why there exists a IE32 and a IE64.
So if you just build a 32bit exe, you will use the 32ODBC and it works like you are used to. Or... you configure the 64bit odbc (no they are not the same)
This is not a Lazarus issue, but a MS issue

I then decided to give SQLite a try.  I successfully converted the .mdb file to .db3 and proceeded.  The first problem I had was not understanding that I had to copy sqlite3.dll to the C:\lazarus and/or C:\lazarus\fpc\2.4.2\bin\i386-win32 folders before I installed sqlite3laz.  After several failed attempts I finally got it right.  [I still don't know for sure if sqlite3.dll belongs in one or both of those folders.  Seems that the installation program for sqlite3laz ought to take care of the .dll problem during the install.)

Like any other dll and application, the OS needs to know where to find a .dll. There is a rule which locations are searched. This is defined by MS. The easiest way is to copy everything in system32 (wrong) like a lot of apps do. Another way is to copy it to the dir of the application using it. So for running laz, you need to copy it to the laz dir. For running your app you need to copy it to the app dir.
Or... you edit the PATH environment variable and add the path to the sqlite3.dll so se OS can find it.
Again this is not a Lazarus issue, but a OS issue.

Then I got the infamous SIGSEGV error.  After more searching on the forum I thought the COMODO issue might be the source of my problem.  Sure enough, the error went away after uninstalling COMODO (temporarily using Windows Firewall now).  Easier said than done.

Also this is not a Lazarus issue. Using development tools means usually full access to the machine (otherwise debugging will become hard). This might contradict firewall/antivirus tools. For its "good" working, COMODO finds it necessary to inject every running executable with its own code. This injection fails somehow in a debugged application (or raises an exception). This exception is caught by the debugger. 

Finally, I was able to get the TSQLite3Connection and the TDatasource coordinated to populate a TDBGrid.  So far, so good.  Then I needed to create a TDBListBox and struggled for quite some time without success.  So, back to searching the forum.  Much to my chagrin, I found our that the TDListBox just plain doesn't work.  That was the last straw.  I could not move forward with my application without the ability to create something as fundamental as a data-bound list box.

You might have run into something (I don't know, I don't use DB components on Lazarus)

As a result of all this, I ended up abandoning my efforts to learn and use Lazarus.  Perhaps I gave up prematurely, but I just couldn't continue to spend hours and hours at each step of the way. Yes, I'm disappointed - not sure where to go from here.  I'll probably stay with
VB and MS-A and give up on my hope of multi-OS developing.

-Paul

So as resume, you gave up on one missing control.

[VTwin]

If you are looking for a VB replacement that does Linux, as well as OS X, you should look at REALbasic, now known as Real Studio. I have used it for a decade or so. I don't do DB myself, but it is a solid product.

I am currently migrating to Lazarus for various reasons, including licensing issues and support for open software. Even though I am a former TurboPascal user, it can be frustrating. I have only been at it for a few months though. I report bugs as I encounter them, and hope that helps the volunteer developers improve the software.

[bobo]

For different DB access you should also try to use the ZeosLib components.  They are more stable and complete than the built in Lazarus ones at this time (best to use the 7.0 version from SVN even if it is alpha).

[davesimplewear]

This is probably not on topic, but I sympathise with the dblistbox problem because I get the same thing, set datasource and field enter dat and a blanl dblisybox when I run the program, have resorted to using rxdbComboList to get the information, this occurs in 0.929 and 09.30.

Regards
Dave

[avra]

...Then I needed to create a TDBListBox and struggled for quite some time without success.  So, back to searching the forum.  Much to my chagrin, I found our that the TDListBox just plain doesn't work.  That was the last straw.  I could not move forward with my application without the ability to create something as fundamental as a data-bound list box.

It took me 3 minutes to have working TDBListBox added to AddrBook demo from Lazarus CodeTyphon 1.60 edition. In just added DBListBox1 set Datasource to DSAddress, DataField to Town, and populate Items with your data (either manually in design mode, or in code). After clicking on list item, town name will be changed in active record, and you have to just refresh DBgrid. That's all.

[braximo]

If you gave up, why bother to post here. (and I ask myself if it makes sense to reply, you're probably gone)

Exactly! Well, if you have a license for VB and Access then use VB and Access. By using Access, i think that you're doing small projects. If it works for you, then why bother migrating in the first place.

[picstart]

Often fixing the simplest of things makes all the difference for a new user. It is the simplest things that they are most likely to do first. Example a new user will often try with a hello world program; prior versions of the IDE would generate a SIGSEGV error if the project wasn't saved first before running. Now this is fixed Lazarus doesn't create the bad first impression that it is buggy. I know many programmers love to be frontiersmen conquering new territory with courageous code but it is often those that fix the potholes and pickup the garbage back home that create lasting applications. My probably irrational fear is that configuration files proliferate *.xml here *.xml there and that a Lazarus uninstall or clean install won't erase them all leading to unpleasant experience when updating versions. Already I feel updating Lazarus is the riskiest thing to do. The 9.30 release is smooth as was 9.26 I sat out 9.28 ( too many SIGSEGV especially with the debugger). The recompile when adding a new component is also a source for anxiety ( mostly offset by the lazarus keeping the old working exe automatically) Looking at the big picture Lazarus is an awesome application.

[jmLandsvik]

Often fixing the simplest of things makes all the difference for a new user. It is the simplest things that they are most likely to do first. Example a new user will often try with a hello world program; prior versions of the IDE would generate a SIGSEGV error if the project wasn't saved first before running. Now this is fixed Lazarus doesn't create the bad first impression that it is buggy. I know many programmers love to be frontiersmen conquering new territory with courageous code but it is often those that fix the potholes and pickup the garbage back home that create lasting applications. My probably irrational fear is that configuration files proliferate *.xml here *.xml there and that a Lazarus uninstall or clean install won't erase them all leading to unpleasant experience when updating versions. Already I feel updating Lazarus is the riskiest thing to do. The 9.30 release is smooth as was 9.26 I sat out 9.28 ( too many SIGSEGV especially with the debugger). The recompile when adding a new component is also a source for anxiety ( mostly offset by the lazarus keeping the old working exe automatically) Looking at the big picture Lazarus is an awesome application.

Could NOT agree more....
I have been visiting Lazarus from time to time, and on 0.9.27 decided to give it a go...
Today, I'm at 0.9.31 (win & Linux), and I'm "not entierly impressed".

With that I mean:
-The installer could be more "intelligent", (automatic downloading by config selections)
as mentioned above, upgrading can be a risky bussiness. (I have a Linux box where after upgrading the components are completely *messed* up)
-Help system (ouch)
-Docking.
-Installing of packages/components...
-Wiki pages...
just a small sample...

(I tryed some samples from the Office Automation page today, and Part 1 worked. (Still, I wonder if the code was tested, it was missing a ";")
Then the next part of the example ended in SIGSEGV,,,)

I too did try the DB (DFB, SQLite & mySQL).
DBF works out of the box..
SQLite (was a nightmare to get working... and it was a commandline sample in a bugreport that gave me what I needed to get it working)
mySQL (nightmare too, until I installed zeos)

and the list goes on...

SO, I've been out a winter night before, so I don't give up that easely...
BUT beeing a newbie, I understand completely that they tend to give up...
AND that is too bad, especially when it is over "simple" things that should work out of the box...

conclusion:
I'm looking forward to the day that I reach a level that I can contribute... )

tnx for a "all in all" nice program...
keep up the good work...

TIPS: what about putting up a page with :
Lazarus INITIAL problems, and how it got solved!!! (or How I worked it out)

NewBies - DON't give up on the first... or second...or... try... ;o)

regards from Norway
Jan Magne

[NelsonN]

I have a database client application in development that runs in Windows, Linux, and MAC OS X, and was planned to handle four database platforms; this was not to be, I had to stop MySQL and PostgreSQL development. MySQL is infamous for changing a lot (as I have read) and PostgreSQL needs BLOB compatibility in SQLdb). So for now it handles SQLite and Firebird just fine. Awesome really.

There are a lot of issues, but what I want to share here is that most of the issues can be overcome, and many annoying bugs can just be reported, as I have done, and code around them for the time being, as a developer keeping track of issues is important so that you can go back to them at a later time and revisit them.

What I am trying to say is that, if you persevere you will see the fruits of your labor. If you give up, then forget it.

[Martin_fr]

-Wiki pages...
just a small sample...

(I tryed some samples from the Office Automation page today, and Part 1 worked. (Still, I wonder if the code was tested, it was missing a ";")
Then the next part of the example ended in SIGSEGV,,,)

Did you fix it?
It's a wiki, everyone can contribute.