Lazarus

Miscellaneous => Other => Topic started by: silvercoder70 on May 08, 2025, 11:13:02 am

Title: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: silvercoder70 on May 08, 2025, 11:13:02 am
Over the past year(s), a question on the popularity of the language pops up in discussions — like the question on the FPC mailing list about how to attract more users, and more recently on the forums: “Why isn’t Lazarus / Free Pascal more popular?” These are valid concerns (seriously), but the conversations  (in my opinion) tend often drift into retrospectives or unproductive comparisons.

To help us move toward a more positive and constructive direction — one that’s focused on growth and the future — maybe it’s time to reframe the question, to something like:

“What realistic and community-driven steps could we take to grow the Lazarus / Free Pascal ecosystem and make it more welcoming to new developers?”

I’d love to hear your ideas — what’s one thing you think we could do, build, or improve that would make a real difference for new or returning users?

(And perhaps use this thread to collect constructive, forward-thinking suggestions that could help shape the next chapter for Lazarus and Free Pascal.)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 08, 2025, 11:57:15 am
Well here are a few ideas...

1) Contribution: E.g. to documentation, maintaining the wiki, ... An up to date representation will certainly help people. Also translations.

2) Represent on all sort of social media.
Including viewers/readers needed, that then make the posts popular and relate them to other posts.
E.g. on youtube: comment to help the popularity of a video. Watch other already popular videos on other programming backgrounds, that come up as suggestions when viewing fpc/lazarus, so youtube gets the "viewers of this also watched". (No I don't know how youtube does the association...)

3) Help with sending announcements to local media (and internet media/magazines)
Most computer magazines would happily (and free of charge) print an release announcement. If only they were given it. That may need some coordination. But this is also an international effort (as each country has its own media).
Not sure if internet media will take such contributions too.
This requires some skill in writing those announcements.


Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 08, 2025, 12:09:32 pm
Write killer apps, like e.g. doublecommander which is quite popular in the Linux community and advertises Freepascal at startup.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 08, 2025, 04:17:28 pm
How can something thrive when it’s nearly impossible to find other people interested in it to talk to outside of one forum? I remember when many people thought pascal was great and liked to talk about it. Not anymore. Nobody cares.

There are plenty of people who talk, chat, do, meet, and more.
It may not be broadway right now, but its out there, very much alive.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 08, 2025, 06:01:23 pm
“What realistic and community-driven steps could we take to grow the Lazarus / Free Pascal ecosystem and make it more welcoming to new developers?”
I think that's the right question to ask.

Amazingly, I agree with Thaddy's take on this one. 

A hard core killer app written in FPC.  An app that would attract hard core programmers towards Pascal.  That's not easy to create.

From the viewpoint of someone continuously peeking into Windows internals, removing some problems would be enormously helpful (not only to me but to anyone else who likes peeking into the internals.)  Among other things:

1. turn off FPC's assumptions that "var" means an input value.  That often causes hundreds of worthless messages to be emitted by the compiler that get in the way of noticing important messages.  That one is the biggest _continuous_ FPC annoyance.

2. Sensible and complete way of aligning records and their fields.  What FPC provides, pretending it works (I've never figured out how that stuff is supposed to work, again, presuming it does) is the most counter intuitive facility I've seen in any programming language (it's trivial to do it in C, why isn't it as simple and easy in FPC ????)

3. A complete, _accurate_ and polished set of API definitions.   That's a BIG problem for programmers that walk away from C/C++ because the ONLY set of API definitions that is reasonably complete and accurate are those provided by MS and, not surprisingly, they are C headers.   For someone like me, it means continuously updating the API definitions in order to have a usable set for what I do (Windows internals.)  Corollary of that, include undocumented functions (they don't hurt anything nor anyone.)  Many programmers are aware of Process Hacker/System informer because it provides the most complete set of definitions of undocumented APIs.

4. For the love of common sense, add a sensible keyword to define static variables.  It is _embarrassing_ to "explain" to someone interested in Pascal that static variables are "writable constants".  If there ever was a way of making a first BAD impression, that is probably it.

5. FPC is "rather loose" in some areas.  I won't elaborate because I've already done so in the past and FPC users seem more interested in protecting their beloved compiler than logical and mathematical accuracy.  That is significant problem because many programmers are not inclined to deal with the resulting nonsense not to mention the programming problems those things create.  I feel that I owe at least one example: in many cases FPC makes assumptions about the values that variable may have based on its type _and_ if the programmer adds code to _ensure_ the variable's value is in the proper range, the compiler flags the code as "unreachable".  You can place an invalid value into a variable and have code that checks the range and what happens is: the invalid value is accepted and the code that verifies there are no invalid values is discarded (just what a programmer needs!)

Back to the positive stuff...

Yes, a hard core killer app would definitely help.  I got one in the back of my mind that I occasionally work on but, other people who have done that app have taken over 30 years to develop it and/or benefit from having a team of superbly knowledgeable and qualified people working on it.  That's tough to match and tougher to exceed.  Not going to happen but, it's my pipe dream and it's free, what's unfortunate is, it's rather unlikely I'll provide the helpful killer app.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 08, 2025, 06:32:49 pm
@Joanna,

There are also quite a few Delphi forums. Many have either Lazarus/FPC sections
Example: delphi-praxis German and English sections and with separate content. So actually two forums in one.
Many of us also visit the above.

English:
https://en.delphipraxis.net/

I believe there is a list somewhere in the wiki.

German:
https://www.delphipraxis.net/       Very active!
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 01:53:43 am
Write killer apps, like e.g. doublecommander which is quite popular in the Linux community and advertises Freepascal at startup.

Add PeaZip to that. It is also a Lazarus/FPC application. TotalCommander 64bit was also written in Lazarus/FPC. HeidiSQL for Linux is a BIG step in that direction.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 02:01:33 am
How can something thrive when it’s nearly impossible to find other people interested in it to talk to outside of one forum? I remember when many people thought pascal was great and liked to talk about it. Not anymore. Nobody cares.

Some other forums designed around a specific library/application using Lazarus/FPC that I know of are the Indy forum, the mORMot forum and the CodeTyphon forum. There are others, in German, Portuguese, French that I've seen and consulted when I needed solutions. One particular package I used back then came from a guy in Japan. The Lazarus/FPC user base is widely dispersed. This is the HQ, but many others exist.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: dbannon on May 09, 2025, 02:19:27 am
Joanna, most people here want this to be a technical forum, not a social one. I love Pascal, I really enjoy using it, I think its great. But I don't want to sit around, perhaps beer in hand and say to someone, "now, let me tell you about typed constants" - its just not what this forum is about.

I understand you are seeking a social outlet, but it appears what you want just does not exist. Not with Pascal as its foundation. I strongly suggest you continue programming with Pascal but develop some other interest as well that can be the base for a social interaction.

Thaddy, I make an app (definitely not the killer app) that does credit FPC/Lazarus at startup. Strongly suggest other people with apps available to the general public do the same. A small, clear (and eventually recognizable) logo would help IMHO.

And a credibility issue with FPC releases ? FPC3.2.2 is almost four years old. People in the software community see that as an indication the project has lost its way. I point out the frequent and innovative release of Lazarus but they just shrug and say, "not worth the risk of committing to something that appears inactive"  (inactive being the other person's word, not mine).

Davo
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 02:25:55 am
Adding to what others, like @440bx, @Thaddy, @Martin_fr, have mentioned earlier, I believe we need to show how Lazarus/FPC can be useful in a modern software application stack (no AI for now). It is becoming more and more rare to use only one language in the entire stack. We now mix and match languages whether we like it or not.

Desktop applications aside because Lazarus/FPC and Delphi can hold their own there, we'll need examples/applications in the Web/Mobile space too. I remember a CIO who was interested in an application I developed but dismissed it because he wanted something web/mobile ready, because he did not want to worry about the end user's device. As more and more people prefer their phones and tablets, they expect their applications to work on those devices too. That is the challenge we face.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Khrys on May 09, 2025, 07:33:31 am
4. For the love of common sense, add a sensible keyword to define static variables.  It is _embarrassing_ to "explain" to someone interested in Pascal that static variables are "writable constants".  If there ever was a way of making a first BAD impression, that is probably it.

I completely agree, "writable constant" is a hilarious oxymoron... too bad it's the official terminology  :o
I think it's too late to "fix" this (for compatibility's sake), so for now I'm going to stick to this macro:

Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]
  1. {$macro on}
  2. {$define staticvar := const}
  3.  
  4. function Sequence(): Integer;
  5. staticvar
  6.   Number: Integer = 0;
  7. begin
  8.   Result := Number;
  9.   Inc(Number);
  10. end;

It could only interfere if you were to use "staticvar" as an identifier somewhere (unlikely) or cause confusion if used for actual (untyped) constants. It follows the naming convention of the existing  threadvar  keyword and IMO just fits right in - I even added it to my user-defined markup settings in Lazarus so it looks like an actual keyword  :D
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: CM630 on May 09, 2025, 09:55:53 am
Write killer apps, like e.g. doublecommander which is quite popular in the Linux community and advertises Freepascal at startup.
Maybe someone with art skills can make one or more logos “Made with Lazarus”?
Tero subtitler (https://www.uruworks.net/index.html) (previously a Delphi app) seems to be popular, I would ask the dev to put some info about Lazarus.

And since Double Commander is mentioned... an excellent app, possibly without an alternative for Linux, but am I the only one who finds it too ugly?
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 10:30:56 am
And since Double Commander is mentioned... an excellent app, possibly without an alternative for Linux, but am I the only one who finds it too ugly?

Choose your commander! I went from TotalCommander to FreeCommander to DoubleCommander. I've also used MultiCommander. None of them looks very good visually, but I really appreciate the usefulness they bring.

The funny thing is I believe ALL of the above were written in Delphi or Lazarus/FPC.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 09, 2025, 10:43:32 am
Yes, I believe that too. All of them have plusses and minusses, but I happen to like double commander and its author is active on this forum, which is a pre.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: silvercoder70 on May 09, 2025, 10:44:21 am
@Martin_fr,

Regarding item 2. How YouTube does things is anyone's guess. As far as recommended videos are concerned, I can have videos from 3 unrelated categories pop up. Otherwise,I would love to be able to do some videos with users from the community here to talk the about the language and/or how they use it, share some of their skills/knowledge.

Regarding item 3. I would like to help there.

@Thaddy,

I wanted to do a video on doublecommander at one time. Cannot remember what stopped me at the time.

@Joanna,

I get the frustration. It is the same in my neck of the woods so I look outside and started something on YouTube.

@440bx,

Yes! :)

@dbannon,

On Credibility. I hear you and have my own thoughts here which is too long to put here. Hopefully I will remember later, but it takes time and people to help.

@JD,

Thanks for the other apps to look at :)

@CM630,

I'm not much of an artist in that respect... someone else would have to look at that.

Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 11:01:40 am
A hard core killer app written in FPC.  An app that would attract hard core programmers towards Pascal.  That's not easy to create.

Yes, a hard core killer app would definitely help.  I got one in the back of my mind that I occasionally work on but, other people who have done that app have taken over 30 years to develop it and/or benefit from having a team of superbly knowledgeable and qualified people working on it.  That's tough to match and tougher to exceed.  Not going to happen but, it's my pipe dream and it's free, what's unfortunate is, it's rather unlikely I'll provide the helpful killer app.

@440bx
Maybe this will give you some new ideas since you like peeking into Windows Internals. Unfortunately, flamerOn is no longer on this forum and BigChimp passed away.

Lazarus applications with source provided by flamerOn
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=22225.5 (https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=22225.5)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 09, 2025, 11:09:38 am
@Martin_fr,

Regarding item 3. I would like to help there.

Well, here in Germany is a magazine called "CT". IIRC years ago the printed a small article (just a few lines) that someone must have sent them. But I don't know the exact details. I would assume in other countries there are similar magazines. And there may be some online too.

The entire idea is just to have the name appear somewhere. So people will have seen it. And people will have seen the word Pascal is still in circulation. It's not much, but it can add to the overall effort.

It means:
- finding publishers that will accept such articles and contact details
- writing a small article
- working with translators for different countries

The article must probably be small enough. E.g. the magazine I mention has a section (a few pages) with 4 or 5 articles per page, each just describing a new release of something. For example here is the online version of such a page: https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2025/10/2509214260237424602 (as you can see the articles include stuff even about small projects / so likely they would include our announcement too)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 09, 2025, 11:44:45 am
side note: Ah, yes, Ct. Famed for including at one time a complete D7 pro! (Yes, pro, with rtl/vcl sources and all) on their CD. Great source. Attick is full of Ct disks. Where are those days?
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: LV on May 09, 2025, 11:51:43 am
It seems CudaText wasn’t mentioned here, even though it has 2.5 million downloads on SourceForge alone.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cudatext/files/stats/timeline?dates=2005-02-08+to+2025-05-09
This project is written in Free Pascal using Lazarus, which serves as great promotion for the platform.
https://github.com/Alexey-T/CudaText
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 09, 2025, 12:10:51 pm
@440bx
Maybe this will give you some new ideas since you like peeking into Windows Internals. Unfortunately, flamerOn is no longer on this forum and BigChimp passed away.

Lazarus applications with source provided by flamerOn
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=22225.5 (https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=22225.5)
@JD
Those are interesting.  Thank you for the link.

My pipe dream app which I work on only every now and then is a dis-assembler a la IDA Pro or Ghidra but, more accurate and much more informative.  My thinking is that if there was an app like that but _much better_ than either one of those, that would attract some really hard core programmers to further enhance it.  I doubt I'll ever get it to what I consider is the "minimum acceptable" (which is way beyond what any other similar utility does today.)  My ultimate goal is to emit FPC assembly routines that, when compiled, generate the same code as the original (that would require an additional utility to patch the resulting .exe to remove FPC's library (which is obviously not needed.)  That would allow creating a Lazarus project for it, which after compiled with debug symbols could be run and debugged in the Lazarus IDE.   That's how I envision porting C code to Pascal. Disassemble the executable to Pascal assembly functions, no darn C headers and macros and all that C junk to deal with.  A "sidebar" to it is generating DWARF debug symbols for disassembled Windows dlls, that would allow the Lazarus IDE to operate like Visual Studio does, when stepping in a system dll, Visual Studio automatically downloads the PDB file.  Lazarus would have a "bank" of external DWARF debug files for the Windows dlls and best of all, since the disassembly can be edited better symbols can be had as the disassembly gets better and better.  That would attract some reverse engineers and, there would be no alternative for them but to use Lazarus and Pascal :)

One thing I completed a number of years ago is a "wrapper" to turn a .exe into a callable dll.  For instance, I fully implemented it for Delphi 2.  I have a program that loads Delphi 2's dcc32.exe as a dll and compiles all the .dpr files it finds in a directory and its subdirectories.  A bonus is that, it executes _faster_ than the original .exe because its I/O no longer needs to use IPC (for it to be done by the console) and the wrapper does a little bit of caching.  The result is close to twice the speed of executing dcc32.exe (one of the reasons is because the .exe doesn't have to be loaded for every compile.)  It also does it for BRCC32.exe (the resource compiler).  Therefore the utility can do a full build of resources and exes. 

One thought that has crossed my mind is to modify that wrapper to turn FPC into a service which Lazarus could use.  That would improve the edit-compile-run cycle.  It's been a recurring thought, maybe I'll scratch that itch someday.  I'd probably give it serious consideration and move it up the "priority queue" if I knew the Lazarus team would seriously consider using it.  Not a killer app but, I think it would be a nice "polishing" improvement.

Combine that FPC service with the dis-assembler I first mentioned and you got something that blows everything that's currently available out of the water.  (there are a few other "little" improvements I have in the back of my mind but, that's already enough to keep me busy until I kick the bucket.)

Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 09, 2025, 12:40:29 pm
It seems CudaText wasn’t mentioned here, even though it has 2.5 million downloads on SourceForge alone.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cudatext/files/stats/timeline?dates=2005-02-08+to+2025-05-09
This project is written in Free Pascal using Lazarus, which serves as great promotion for the platform.
https://github.com/Alexey-T/CudaText

His handle on this forum is AlexTP
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: ccrause on May 10, 2025, 09:20:37 am
My pipe dream app which I work on only every now and then is a dis-assembler a la IDA Pro or Ghidra but, more accurate and much more informative.
It would be great if the (cross platform) disassembler can be integrated with fpdebug. This is one of the time consuming steps when adding new platform support in fpdebug.  Obviously your focus is different from "just debugging", but the disassembler functionality could potentially be shared between the projects.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 10, 2025, 11:46:23 am
And the linked article is exactly what I meant.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/05/09/new_lazarus_4/
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 10, 2025, 12:06:34 pm
Wrong statement in the article: fpc is supported on all flavors of Raspberry pi including 1, not just 4 and later.
I still don't know who ported and packaged it but it has always been in the distribution from PI day one. (well that should be 3.14........)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 10, 2025, 03:38:26 pm
It would be great if the (cross platform) disassembler can be integrated with fpdebug. This is one of the time consuming steps when adding new platform support in fpdebug.  Obviously your focus is different from "just debugging", but the disassembler functionality could potentially be shared between the projects.
It used to be that writing the core part of a dis-assembler was not a big deal.  I'm thinking about the days of the i486.  I don't remember exactly but, IIRC, there were only about 140 instructions.  The only "difficult" part was dealing with a handful of undocumented functions or undocumented side effects in some instructions.  Typical programming bread and butter.

Today, writing a half-way decent dis-assembler is a whole lot of work (not to mention the necessary testing.)  That's why I was using Distorm for a while and now I'm using Zydis.  With today's modern processors, the dis-assembler alone is a real project.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: munair on May 10, 2025, 04:53:09 pm
Not sure if it qualifies as a "killer app", but it sure is unique software 100% written with Lazarus. The page also mentions that.
https://ssgeos.org/solpage.htm
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: silvercoder70 on May 11, 2025, 11:57:00 am
Perhaps (sometimes?) we can easily forget there are useful tools out there that are written with free pascal. In addition to the solpage mention,a few apps get a mention here (Scientific Pascal):

https://bsky.app/profile/scipastips.bsky.social

and might indicate that fpc/lazarus gets more use in the research area. But perhaps not what would be classed as a killer app.

And for my own benefit ...

@440bx – Many ideas here and your disassembler project sounds seriously ambitious, but also really intriguing.

@Thaddy – good catch on the Raspberry Pi detail. Lazarus and FPC have had Pi support for a long time, and that kind of correction helps set the record straight. Hope you mentioned it :)

@JD – thanks for the reminder about CudaText. With millions of downloads, it’s probably the most widely used Lazarus-based app out there — a great showcase for the platform.

If anyone’s working on similar tools or experiments, please share? I would also like to do a video with some devs using fpc down the track, :)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: VisualLab on May 12, 2025, 02:37:18 pm
I don't think that killer applications written using FPC/Lazarus are that important, because that's what the end user usually comes into contact with. The vast majority of end users don't care what the program was created in. Ergonomics are important to the user. Nevertheless, I think that applications created using FPC/Lazarus should be documented. This will always, to some extent, increase the popularization of FPC/Lazarus.

However, considering that FPC and Lazarus are programming tools, the most effective way to popularize them would be:
Point (1) time is being realized (slowly but steadily). Some fixes to the compiler (language pains) should be included. Some of them were mentioned by 440bx, such oddities as writable constants (but there are more). This should “be straightened out” in the language.

Point (2) is also (generally) realized. But there are fewer libraries compared to, for example, C or C++ (which is obvious - the number of people involved). And this point is one of the more important ones. This is well shown by the popularity of Python - the reason is libraries (even though it is basically the worst programming language, right next to JS). In any case, it seems to me that for most programmers it is probably easier to create libraries than to expand a compiler or debugger.

Point (3) is also very important. Much of the content in the documentation would need to be improved, supplemented and expanded. In addition, one central repository with documentation would be useful: FPC, Lazarus, libraries (scattering it across several different websites is inconvenient). In addition, many descriptions are incomplete (this has been mentioned many times on this forum). Also the look of these pages and the layout of the content (headers, links, color, size and font style, etc.) is quite archaic. It would be good to refresh this. But those who wanted to do it would have to have access to it.

The FPC and Lazarus website(s) could also use some refreshing. It doesn't always have to involve completely turning everything upside down. Just "a bit" is enough.

I have no major objections to the tutorials. They are quite decent. Besides, creating them is very time-consuming and demanding. But basic documentation of tools and libraries is necessary. Without it, it is difficult to work even for those who already know FPC/Lazarus.



I believe that the first step is to improve, streamline and expand the documentation, starting with the appearance and then moving on to the content (in stages). Yes, I know, it's a lot of work. But without it, the slow "downhill slide" will continue (which I don't think any of us want).
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 13, 2025, 12:32:37 am
The best thing thst could happen with pascal programming at this point would be to make a better community with the people who still use it and reinstate real-time support like there used to be.
Last I heard there are people who use similar real time media (just with a fancy modern alias). So it ain't dead. They just don't wont to play with everyone. Their choice.

Also, we have a great community, right here on this forum, on many other forums around the world, in other media, and real life local meeting groups.
Saying "make a better community" is an insult to any of them.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: VisualLab on May 13, 2025, 01:40:59 am
I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.

Documentation is important, it also serves (and will serve) those who use Pascal and Object Pascal. After all, not everyone has all the details related to the compiler, IDE or libraries (RTL, FCL, LCL) in mind. It depends on the frequency of use.

In addition, from time to time it is necessary to fill in the gaps in the documentation and improve its appearance. At home, some changes are also made every few years (painting the walls, repairs, rearranging the furniture, etc.). This is not about complaining, but about specific actions for the general benefit of the community.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 13, 2025, 01:49:34 am
the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.

Strange, because as far as I can see it is increasing.

And just because "support" (as you call it) isn't tailored to you personal whim, does not mean it is lacking. Huge difference.

And replies on the forum can be given as fast as anyone can read and then type. That is as realtime as it gets.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 13, 2025, 02:26:17 am
All I get is indifference or hostility if I bring up the topic of pascal.
That makes some sense given the way you present some things.  For instance...

We all know that official real-time support is gone.
This forum provides support about as real time as most programmers would like support to be.  I don't want a "chat thing" which is what that sentence seems to be underhandedly peddling.

The compiler itself is thriving,
The compiler is being steadily developed but, I don't know that "thriving" is the right word to use for a compiler that hasn't seen an update in about 4 years.

Personally, I believe that more frequent formal releases that consist of mostly, if not entirely, of bug fixes would be helpful.

the population of pascal enthusiasts is much much less than when I first started using pascal.
I think just about anyone that used a "Turbo" version of Pascal has noticed that too.

Pascal enthusiasts who need real time support have been abandoned.
Abandoned ?  really ?... has anyone here abandoned you ?  I believe that if you ask a technical question, you'll get a reply shortly thereafter.

I’m only bringing this up because believe it or not many people don’t want to delve into projects where the future of support is uncertain. If I were an owner of a company and I wanted to choose a language to write an important application for the business, would it be prudent to choose a platform that for whatever reason is unable to maintain Official real-time support?
Official real time support ?... unless you work for a company that pays a pretty penny for priority support, you won't get anything that remotely resembles "real time support".  When you purchase a service contract, the best response time you can expect is usually within 4 hours and, that is pretty darn good, not to mention expensive.

I’m glad this forum exists but it could be even better if there were more people using pascal.
The number of people involved does help but, what really helps is the people's willingness to help and their level of knowledge.  Quantity doesn't imply quality.

As for the idea of pascal enthusiasts all over the place I haven’t come across very many who like pascal outside of this forum no matter how hard I try.
Like you, I don't think there are Pascal enthusiasts "all over the place" but, if you go to the right places, you'll find them.  Among those places are this forum and the Idera/Delphi forums.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: silvercoder70 on May 13, 2025, 06:25:36 am
I don’t think most people even want to use pascal because they have heard so much bad propaganda about it. Therefore changing the documentation to appeal to people who aren’t coming is a waste of time.

Documentation is important, it also serves (and will serve) those who use Pascal and Object Pascal. After all, not everyone has all the details related to the compiler, IDe or libraries (RTL, FCL, LCL) in mind. It depends on the frequency of use.

In addition, from time to time it is necessary to fill in the gaps in the documentation and improve its appearance. At home, some changes are also made every few years (painting the walls, repairs, rearranging the furniture, etc.). This is not about complaining, but about specific actions for the general benefit of the community.

Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.  If the information is not there or appears out of date then of course the users won't come. Part of my community is from youtube. And I have other ideas in that regard. Another part is this forum. But giving something a new coat of paint still takes time and or money.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 13, 2025, 10:03:30 am
Look and feel go a long way... whether it's a website or documentation.

I agree with you here. The old websites of the Firebird and PostgreSQL databases had to be redesigned for this reason. Concerning the documentation, maybe moving it from the Wiki to a platform like Gitbook, readthedocs, Asciidoc etc will freshen it up.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Thaddy on May 13, 2025, 11:13:08 am
I have been experimenting with a local .css a couple of years ago.
That is really the only thing necessary to obtain a more modern look, except for media content.
I happen to like the serene style it has now.
I am no designer, but you can do that through the developers options in most browsers. Feel free to write a new css.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Fibonacci on May 13, 2025, 11:47:37 am
1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.

2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 13, 2025, 12:23:41 pm
1) Improve the syntax coloring editor in the IDE (Options -> Editor -> Display -> Colors). Currently, if one selects a custom color for something, and wants to set the exact same color for another thing, they have to remember the RGB values because the "Add to Custom Colors" button doesnt work.
Never really thought about it...

Partly added: https://gitlab.com/freepascal.org/lazarus/lazarus/-/commit/800b2cd836e974d20305fba3fad41d60ce016fc2
Within the same frame (e.g. NOT yet between normal colors and "user defined"), and only as long as the dialog stays open. (Tested on Windows)

Needs still to be made persistent, and between the different frames.

You may want to add a feature request for that.

Also I don't know if the Object inspector deals with that (should have its own set of custom colors). If not that would be a 2nd separate feature request.

Quote
2) Online tool to create new color schemes, with live preview, saving and sharing
While it would be nice to have something better than the wiki to share the results, this isn't going to go onto my list (sorry, time restraints)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Handoko on May 13, 2025, 07:55:33 pm
I've been in the forum for a long time. People popped up and said they wanted to offer help, to make Lazarus better. Some wanted to improve the documentation and wiki pages, some offered their modules that can be used for Lazarus to generate Android applications. Some were working on video tutorials. There were some discussions about improving the documentation and wiki. Some proof of concept tools had been created that could be used to generate Android applications. Several YouTube tutorials had been created. But then they stopped.

I could be wrong but I think if we can have several 'teams' we can contribute better for the Lazarus/Pascal community. Not limited to, but these are in my mind:

A team for improving the documentation and wiki
This is not an easy task, having a team of people working on it, will really ease it. They can discuss, communicate, share idea and tips, how and where to start.

A team for writing short demos
I believe with plenty of short demos, will make new users to learn Lazarus/Pascal easier. How to do xyz is often asked in the forum. Instead of give them explanations and links, it will be more helpful if we can supply them some demos to download and try. If we form a team, we can share tips how to write good demos, discuss and compile a list of demos we're going to work on.

A team for video tutorials
Finding video tutorials of certain topic is easy in other languages but not in Lazarus/Pascal. Video tutorials are very helpful when explaining GUI programming and IDE features.

A team for cosmetics improvements
Editor black themes, new splash screens, better quality icons, more modern websites, etc.

A team for greeting and helping newbies
Greeting newcomers is always a good thing to do.

Now back to what I said previously ... some efforts were made but then they stopped. I can't say for sure but I personally believe they grew tired working alone. By forming teams, we can motivate each others, share tips and split burdens. And we should make it clear for public (in sub forums or maybe a link), how to contact or post suggestions/requests to the teams.

If you agree with my idea, then we should talk about:
- What teams should be formed
- Is it any rules to refuse someone (troll) joining the team
- Does each team have a leader, if yes how to choose one

If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 14, 2025, 12:56:57 am
If the idea got accepted, I would join cosmetics improvements. I do graphics and use a wide range of tools. And I build websites using WordPress, maybe my skills can be used. I like writing short demos, I certainly will join short demos team. I like graphics programming, I see some users regularly posting graphics effects recently, we could form a team.

But if my idea got rejected. It's okay I have more time for myself and I will keep doing what I usually do, greeting newcomers.

Accepted / Rejected?  Even if some items may at some time need some form of it (and not all do need that), then that would not be at the beginning.

The acceptance is by "someone or some group starting to do". If you want a team, then acceptance simply means other joining it.

- Tasks like the wiki don't need approval, though the may get feedback.

- Its different for the website(s). There some limitations have previously be communicated. But even then, commitment comes before approval. I.e. unless someone has volunteered time and outlined tasks => there wont be much reaction (because otherwise the teams would rather often spend time on reviewing ideas for which there never was anyone to do them).

- Documentation works by submitting patches (start small / get feedback).

- putting info on social media, same as the wiki

...

Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Handoko on May 14, 2025, 03:35:08 am
I’ve been asking for help with restoring the real-time support team since 2019!

I think to be real-time, is hard to achieved.

Lets say for example, if on average each volunteer is willing to spend 4 hours per day providing support. It will need at least 6 persons to be able to cover 24 hours. If you observe the questions asked in the forum, some of them are very advanced topics, only top skill members can provide the answers. I am not saying that is not possible, we now have a foundation. Maybe in the future, after the foundation collected enough money, they can allocate some of the money to pay for it.

The idea I suggested does not need to be real-time. For example if we form a team for greeting and helping newbies. While I am not sitting on my computer, maybe I am traveling on a taxi or waiting in a bank. I visit the forum using my phone and see a new forum member asking simple questions. I can notify my team's members so the can go online and provide help.

Eugene Loza ever contacted me. He said we could form a kind of team or group, so we can motivate and share ideas or working together. That actually was a good idea. Unfortunately that didn't happen because I was doing other things at that moment.

Do you know Delphi TeamA or B? Something like that but with a notable different, they were incentivized. If you are ever active in WordPress forum, you will know they have a 'team' of moderators that are monitoring and policing the forum very actively.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Handoko on May 14, 2025, 05:35:31 am
I like your ideas of teams and would gladly volunteer but I don’t see anyone interested and that is a big problem in my opinion.

Yep, manpower issue.

Handoko Lazarus ide and fpc had good official real-time support in 2014 and It has none. I know there are still enough people who use pascal for there to be real-time support. Even if people could only volunteer for an hour a week it would be far better than NOTHING .

Definitely not me. I have a full time job, I can't sit in front of my computer waiting and providing support. That's also the reason I do not active in the IRC chat group. But I will check the forum and offer my help when I have time, not real-time. Again manpower issue, not sure why real-time support could happen in 2014, maybe there really were much users active in using and volunteering in Pascal community at that moment.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: silvercoder70 on May 14, 2025, 10:57:43 am
@Handoko,

I like the ideas put forward re "team" and also cognisant of what @Martin_fr said. My channel is my channel, but certainly open to colabs in some form or another.

Like you, I have a F/T job.... I get it. You provide help when you can, and that is great!

@Joanna,

Quote
This whole thread has been about Trying. attract people to use fpc but not much focus on the needs of people already using it. I think there are a few issues such as reinstating resources we lost that should be addressed first.

The way support is handled today (vs previous years) is very different - having come from a commercial software environment. Heck, in some places you have to pay for email support.

As far as "resources" are concerned (otherwise)... I will also scan for texts on sites like https://www.packtpub.com to work out how to use some components that could be better documented. I might also look for videos on YouTube that are current. In years gone by, there would be magazine articles, on whatever your fav. language is.

Growing the community isn’t just about bringing in new users. It’s just as much about sharing accurate, up-to-date resources that people actually want to use, and building a sustainable space for everyone—whether they’re just starting out or have been around for years.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: munair on May 14, 2025, 02:03:33 pm
A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Handoko on May 14, 2025, 03:01:30 pm
Some People have no time to help with things that would help the community but plenty of time to stop by my thread just to insult my coding style.

We live in the real world, things do not always go the way we want. Some will criticize you even you have done your best, just to insult you. Sometimes we give advice because you hope someone will do better next time. But they will think it as a negative criticism. If you can't handle the criticism, ignore it. But if really consider what they say, you often can learn something useful from it.

A positive attitude is helpful too. Cheer up! On the TIOBE index Pascal was ranked 30th 5 years ago. Since then it's been in an upward trend and now back in the top 10.
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/ (https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/delphi-object-pascal/)

Glad to know about it.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JanRoza on May 14, 2025, 03:34:38 pm
I think that this forum provides enough support for anyone who needs it. Realtime support is just a dream tharmt will never come true.
Any question here is mostly answered within a day which should suite most users well.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 14, 2025, 04:04:51 pm
Manpower issues is just a nice way of saying that we have lost a lot of people since 2014 and we are unable to provide what was once routine and normal for foss communities.

No it is not. Just the available manpower is now otherwise bound (if actually ever it was where you say).

This may either be fluctuation. People come and go for many reasons. But for those gone others came, so that is normal.
Or it may be that a person moved their area of interest. Also happens everywhere.

Also what the hell to you define as "official support"?
There are no dedicated support workers of any kind. And never have been.

Support has always been voluntary. And for the most part by members of the community, rather than by those from the "teams". Simple because the amount of people in the community is magnitudes bigger than the size of the teams.
And that has worked well in the past, and for all I can say still works well.
But it has, does, and always will mean, that those asking for support will have to do it in the way that those providing it have chosen.

And that is the way (afaik) that it is in any FOSS project (with the exceptions of those having commercial backing).


Maybe the community has changed. Well most likely. Everything changes over time.

And as for the "real time": Chat and Forum are both as able to be real-time as the other.
If someone wanted to answer to forum message immediately, they can use email notify or other means to be aware of incoming posts. And all else is a matter of how quick they can type. But typing into the forum is not slower than the same in a chat.

But in both instances, its down to people having time to stare at their screen waiting for something to respond too. If people have better to do... Well then you get chats were people may be logged in, but take 5, 10 or 15 minutes before they reply.



But anyway. Point is, that is in no way a consequence of what the project itself does.

The project does not (nor ever has) dictated to the community how the community should or may interact.

The project may supply this forum, but that is one out of a great many forums for the project. The majority of the means to interact comes from the community.
And again, that has been this very way for a long long time.

So this is what the community does for the project and maybe today it can do more by the means it uses today.

Chat may (or may not / I have no data) once been more popular.... Well so have light themes for the IDE once been more popular (when CRT screens had just gone), and floating windows too (instead of docked). But those things change.

That change does not mean that the quantity or quality of the community decreases. Not at all.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: alpine on May 14, 2025, 04:09:40 pm
Real-time support was NOT a dream it was really helpful and more people were there than are ever logged in here.
"Realtime" is a matter of definition. Many (most) times when I've wanted to answer someone's question on this forum, I find that someone has already done it, and many times - better than me. So the benefit of chat platforms in this case is greatly overestimated.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Kralle on May 14, 2025, 04:15:11 pm
Hello,

If i look to https://www.freepascal.org/ (https://www.freepascal.org/) i can't find a information since what time the page is online.
The same on https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?action=forum (https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?action=forum).

How old is Freepascal? How old is Pascal?

This information show newcommers that there is an many experience in this language and it is a simple way,

On https://github.com/ (https://github.com/)  are 1100 entries about Freepascal,
Lazarus 3900, Delphi 20600 , Pascal 20700.

I think there is an great base of code, but nobody knows.

Sorry, for my bad english.
Kralle
https://www.lazarusforum.de/ (https://www.lazarusforum.de/)
https://lazarus-konferenz.de/ (https://lazarus-konferenz.de/)
https://pascalconference.de/ (https://pascalconference.de/)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Martin_fr on May 14, 2025, 04:25:51 pm
As for the forum, the closest to an answer, the first post it (still?) has: https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,2

As for Lazarus, there is history on the wiki https://wiki.freepascal.org/History

Not sure how that would best be represented. Not sure how prominent that needs to be made...
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: alpine on May 14, 2025, 05:07:51 pm
@Joanna
Can you just stop whining about the IRC?
There is a FPC discord channel where people are having a really great time. Please don't go there.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: Fibonacci on May 14, 2025, 05:42:42 pm
IRC fits FPC perfectly - it too is old and ugly >:D No way Im using IRC.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: alpine on May 14, 2025, 06:27:14 pm
@Fibonacci
Please, don't feed. It is a same over and over, a repellent...
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: marcov on May 14, 2025, 06:41:44 pm
FPC's rough old history is in the first FAQ item on the website:

https://www.freepascal.org/faq.html#WhatIsFP
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JanRoza on May 14, 2025, 07:23:44 pm
Wow fpc was started back when pascal was at the peak of popularity. I didn’t know that..

Does this sarcastic answer helps anyone?  >:(
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: munair on May 15, 2025, 10:12:10 am
I’m not being sarcastic!  I was impressed  :o
You talk a lot about Pascal and you have 1400+ posts on this forum, but you don't know the basic history?
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: PascalDragon on May 15, 2025, 09:13:30 pm
When I first discovered Lazarus in 2014 there was a link from forums that led to real-time support with real fpc and Lazarus developers and enthusiasts talking about interesting things everyday. Now I’m supposed to believe that  it’s just a made up Fantasy that never happened at all. I’m supposed to not care that such a valuable resource was abandoned?

But even then it wasn't a dedicated support. It simply happened to be users that used IRC, because they considered it as comfortable enough. Nowadays they/us simply have no interest anymore to lurk in something like that. You can't force anybody to do anything they don't want.

I didn’t know I was supposed to. Nobody ever talked to me about it before..

There is no “supposed to”, but you could have been curious about it before this and researched it yourself.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: TRon on May 15, 2025, 09:42:39 pm
Nowadays they/us simply have no interest anymore to lurk in something like that. You can't force anybody to do anything they don't want.
Let us set the record straight there.

The no interest part is only due to the behaviour of one single person. Guess who that is and is now whining for more than 3 years about that here on the forums (while repeatedly told not to do so) about the results of that behaviour.

That same behaviour is being attempted to copy-paste here on the forums on several occasions.

You reap what you sow and karma is a bitch.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: PascalDragon on May 15, 2025, 09:55:49 pm
The no interest part is only due to the behaviour of one single person. Guess who that is and is now whining for more than 3 years about that here on the forums (while repeatedly told not to do so) about the results of that behaviour.

Well, at least the FPC devs had left before that time, because there wasn't really much interest anymore.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: TRon on May 15, 2025, 10:03:41 pm
Well, at least the FPC devs had left before that time, because there wasn't really much interest anymore.
Yes, I am very well aware PD :)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 16, 2025, 03:49:55 am

Evidently Joanna has found a way to peddle IRC without using the word "IRC" instead it's all about "real time support"...

It's been working for several pages now but, I have a feeling this synonym has a limited lifetime. <chuckle>
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: lainz on May 16, 2025, 05:04:08 am
Go and use python or Javascript these are popular languages. I use them at work so why not a hobbyist.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 16, 2025, 05:24:04 am
440bx has gone to at least one thread with the sole purpose of insulting the poster because the poster doesn’t do things like he does.
What in the world are you talking about ?  Is this about my comment that Pascal doesn't look good in uppercase or some other thing you chose to be offended by ?

The fact that I tried to help has somehow made me into a villain. How is this even possible? It’s pure insanity.
It is far from insanity.  You seem to be hell bent on "suggesting" (that's putting it rather kindly) that Pascal programmers should be on some chat thing.  Personally, I have no desire to be in some sort of chat thing and, by the looks of it, I am not the only one who doesn't find the thought enticing.

You're entitled to believe that would make a difference but, everyone else is entitled to having a different opinion and _voicing_ it. 

It wasn't chat rooms or some facsimile that made Turbo Pascal popular.

Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 16, 2025, 08:57:45 am
I expect no other future besides coding pascal alone after everyone has finished disappearing.

You don't have to code in Pascal alone. It does not have to be a dogma. Many of us, on this forum, like me, also use other languages. Languages are just tools for solving problems. No more, no less. The support on this forum is as good as it ever was and, in my opinion, excellent. The ages of the members of this forum never bothered me. There is no Pascal apocalypse! All languages face attrition. I remember discussions on Java forums talking about Java slowly dying.  :D

Remember that apart from the developer, nobody cares what language you use as long as the problem is solved within budget constraints, time limits and optimally.  :D

As for Pascal totally disappearing from the face of the Earth, I believe it will find its niche. Look at this announcement I found on the PostgreSQL website:

New PostgreSQL support in IBM COBOL for Linux on x86
https://www.postgresql.org/about/news/new-postgresql-support-in-ibm-cobol-for-linux-on-x86-3074/ (https://www.postgresql.org/about/news/new-postgresql-support-in-ibm-cobol-for-linux-on-x86-3074/)

COBOL is still alive (for obvious reasons) and even Foxpro is still in use. Pascal still has its place. So cheer up!!  :D

Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: munair on May 16, 2025, 09:45:12 am
There's no reason for any pessimism if a language is less popular than it used to be at some point in history. New languages come and can become popular because they are practical for specific use cases. This popularity fluctuates. No big deal. Some languages are very old and still used for specific tasks. This is true for Pascal and even more so Fortran. They still have their use cases and won't go the way of the dinosaurs any time soon. So what's the problem? Lazarus is downloaded 800 times a week for Linux and 16,000 times for Windows. I'd say it thrives.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 16, 2025, 10:44:36 am
@munair
I agree with you wholeheartedly.  :D
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JD on May 16, 2025, 12:36:19 pm
Lainz and JD I’m not interested in other programming languages. It’s all I can do to not forget how to program in pascal. Without pascal I would give up programming.

Noted.  O:-)
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: munair on May 16, 2025, 12:59:10 pm
I'm waiting for this thread to be locked.
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: JanRoza on May 16, 2025, 01:24:52 pm
Please let the drama queen stop ranting here!
Title: Re: Practical Ways to Help Lazarus and Free Pascal Thrive?
Post by: 440bx on May 16, 2025, 01:32:05 pm
I'm waiting for this thread to be locked.
I think that would be a good thing.

TinyPortal © 2005-2018