Lazarus

Programming => General => Topic started by: piGrimm on June 05, 2018, 10:14:49 pm

Title: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 05, 2018, 10:14:49 pm
I know some of you use github for freepascal opensource projects. I don't. Microsoft is going to buy github (for 7.5 billions dollars), and I'm Afraid it's going to become much more targeted at microsoft OS. To me it is a bad news, that a one only big firm monopolizes the scene, cutting grass all around. Times ago, friends of mine had their free code "stolen" by microsoft and resold for big money (not a real robbery as it was free, but you know, it can hurt)
So I put this warning topic, to let you know what's going on actually. Be careful, for now, with github going to be owned by a big business shark
The problem is, I only know svn and github. Do you know other free alternative projects managers for your pascal projects, were they would be secure?
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/ (https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/)
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: MacWomble on June 05, 2018, 10:19:40 pm
Gitlab and Bitbucket can be used instead
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Leledumbo on June 05, 2018, 10:40:50 pm
I know some of you use github for freepascal opensource projects. I don't. Microsoft is going to buy github (for 7.5 billions dollars), and I'm Afraid it's going to become much more targeted at microsoft OS. To me it is a bad news, that a one only big firm monopolizes the scene, cutting grass all around. Times ago, friends of mine had their free code "stolen" by microsoft and resold for big money (not a real robbery as it was free, but you know, it can hurt)
So I put this warning topic, to let you know what's going on actually. Be careful, for now, with github going to be owned by a big business shark
The problem is, I only know svn and github. Do you know other free alternative projects managers for your pascal projects, were they would be secure?
https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/ (https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/)
If you haven't followed M$ for a long time, you should start reading how Nadella has led M$ in a totally different way from Ballmer. Windows is not even their primary product anymore (in the sense that they're not advertising it as much as their other products, even so since there will be no new Windows version, according to some insiders, since they've moved to some kinda rolling release development model). They engage in open source a lot, in the same level as Google and Apple. Their most flexible advanced text editor and the best implementation of Atom derived one, VS Code, is open source. M$ won't kill github nor it's gonna limit it whatsoever, perhaps even integrating CI/CD with their Azure cloud system. Everything inside will only be training data for their AI systems, just like why they bought LinkedIn.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 05, 2018, 11:39:36 pm
@leledumb
I do avoid microsoft at max everytime it is possible, and I can tell that my health is wonderful. the fact that they change their way of conduct (6 years vs 25 years of assholing) is NOT significant proof to my opinion (they could change again), SO I'm actually looking at bitbucket and gitlab as mentioned @MacWomble. these alternative sound good.
Everyone is free, of course. Mazter of nanoseconds malloc crunching my Heap in my virtualized space (hehehehe), but I felt the need to share the info about MS SHARK, that many people (as I) do not trust that much for 30 years around intellectual property's respect
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Zath on June 05, 2018, 11:49:10 pm
I don't have a problem with M$. Their VS line available free is a superb piece of software and already has the facility to link directly with GitHub seamlessly with your projects. Let's see what happens before jumping ship.





Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 05, 2018, 11:51:43 pm
In fact this topic has already been raised:
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,41472.msg287946.html#msg287946

Indeed plGrimm, Microsoft has never been trustworthy, so why would it be now?

In fact, their contribution to opensource is very small. They are not releasing the source of Visual Studio, nor Office, nor any significant product. It is likely that they are doing opensource just because they have no other choice. Azure is weak against Google.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Zath on June 06, 2018, 12:02:29 am
In fact this topic has already been raised:
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,41472.msg287946.html#msg287946

Indeed plGrimm, Microsoft has never been trustworthy, so why would it be now?

In fact, their contribution to opensource is very small. They are not releasing the source of Visual Studio, nor Office, nor any significant product. It is likely that they are doing opensource just because they have no other choice. Azure is weak against Google.

Excuse my ignorance but how can you compare Azure and Google ?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 12:04:22 am
@circular +10
I think M$ is a business sponge absorbing everything with the unique goal= to make money, AND THAT won't change
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 12:06:02 am
So Please, BEHAVE
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 06, 2018, 12:48:36 am
Remember that GitHub was already a business, with premium private repositories.
The competence like GitLab and Bitbucket has also premium stuff. SourceForge has a lot of ads (well, now only for not logged in people..).

Remember that in the past Google had Google Code. Microsoft has CodePlex. Both closed by GitHub popularity. So I think is not the idea to lose again.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Phil on June 06, 2018, 01:25:51 am
Remember that GitHub was already a business, with premium private repositories.

Some relevant business analysis of the acquisition:

https://stratechery.com/2018/the-cost-of-developers
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 06, 2018, 02:51:00 am
@lainz
Indeed GitHub has always been a commercial company. Going into Microsoft hands does not change much from this point of view. I am not sure it will change much from the point of view of users of the service.

What is puzzling though, is that Microsoft has always considered opensource as bad and Linux as its enemy. So it is surprising to see this company buy GitHub, buy a seat at the Linux Foundation, etc. while not willing to release source code of any of their existing products. So Microsoft is not becoming an open source company.

I don't think it is the opposite either. Some might be afraid that they are trying to kill Linux and opensource software using their strategy Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. However I think it is far fetched as those are not commercial companies and so they are not as fragile. So even if it could be somehow their plan it will fail.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Phil on June 06, 2018, 02:58:47 am
while not willing to release source code of any of their existing products. So Microsoft is not becoming an open source company.

Quite a few of their development tools are open source. But like Google and Apple and almost all companies, they don't release source for what they consider strategically important software.

https://opensource.microsoft.com

Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Mr.Madguy on June 06, 2018, 05:19:55 am
I don't know. Since moment, when M$ went the same way, as Apple and Google - I stopped trusting them. They have no honesty any more. Their major products have closed source and therefore they can possibly do some code stealing - i.e. using open source code in their projects and selling it as their own. My philosophy: code itself doesn't matter, cuz it can we rewritten - ideas do. That's, why my code is closed now. Not because I'm greedy and selfish, but because I respect time and effort, I've invested into ideas, it's based on. I.e. I don't use GitHub for my own projects, so I don't care.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: User137 on June 06, 2018, 05:36:22 am
What is puzzling though, is that Microsoft has always considered opensource as bad and Linux as its enemy. So it is surprising to see this company buy GitHub, buy a seat at the Linux Foundation, etc. while not willing to release source code of any of their existing products. So Microsoft is not becoming an open source company.
That's old stereotype, yet people so commonly make the mistake. They don't have anything against Linux or open source, based on any news about them in past years
https://www.howtogeek.com/265900/everything-you-can-do-with-windows-10s-new-bash-shell/
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/open-source-program-microsoft-open-source-thrives/

But it's easy to dismiss everything by just saying it's a company with purpose of making money. Same can be said about any other company in the world. Evul muricans... If they released source code of Windows, can you imagine the wave of security breaches?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Thaddy on June 06, 2018, 07:34:03 am
Indeed. And the Windows 10.1 Linux subsystem can even run Freepascal for Linux. It is basically a full Ubuntu user-space subsystem made by Canonical and it works great.
Microsoft developers contribute greatly to Linux development, btw.

As I understand the ratio for buying github is
1. The services business for professionals
2. The technology
3. The user base, but this is to a lesser extend.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 09:59:00 am
... If they released source code of Windows, can you imagine the wave of security breaches?
c'mon guy, tell me the Wave of security breaches in opensourced OSes! Good Luck with that HAHAHAHA. to my opinion it is even THE OPPOSITE
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 10:02:59 am
@Mr.Madguy +1
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 10:12:43 am
finally... I think Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc ... buy opensource "P"arts to resale ideas and products... MONEY CALLS MONEY... that said, I see they expect to kill opensource world that way, because they did not succeed with past different attempts.

Let see, it's going to be FUN on a near future HAHAHA
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: MacWomble on June 06, 2018, 12:24:12 pm
I'll never trust M$ in any way.  :o

My Sourcecode is my bussiness ... (Think of this!) 

M$ should do his work. e.g in Europe we must follow the EU-DSGVO - no chance when using W10.
But this don't care M$ ...

As monopolist M$ will ever win, all others are looser.  >:D
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: ASBzone on June 06, 2018, 04:06:21 pm
Microsoft has been involving itself much more in OpenSource projects than before, and that is largely under the direction of the current CEO.

Granted, that all could change in the future, but this is no different than with any other company or situation.

Microsoft is growing increasingly heterogeneous in its operations, and this move benefits multiple parties.  (I'm not suggesting that everyone has to like it, or support it, but having an anti-Microsoft stance just for the sake of it, or just because of historical reasons, is not really objective.)

GitHub is a commercial entity, and Microsoft is a commercial entity, which seeks to have a commercial presence in this market.    Frankly, Microsoft is a whole lot better at handling acquisitions than Oracle and a few other companies that could be named.   Let's see how it plays out.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 06:31:31 pm
Microsoft has been involving itself much more in OpenSource projects than before, and that is largely under the direction of the current CEO.

Granted, that all could change in the future, but this is no different than with any other company or situation.

Microsoft is growing increasingly heterogeneous in its operations, and this move benefits multiple parties.  (I'm not suggesting that everyone has to like it, or support it, but having an anti-Microsoft stance just for the sake of it, or just because of historical reasons, is not really objective.)

GitHub is a commercial entity, and Microsoft is a commercial entity, which seeks to have a commercial presence in this market.    Frankly, Microsoft is a whole lot better at handling acquisitions than Oracle and a few other companies that could be named.   Let's see how it plays out.

Ok
I steal code in 2018, then I make millions with it, and in 2031, I give it back free and ... I am a Saint! Your reflexion is interesting among History, it explains many massacres and wars HAHAHAHA
My opinion is "Crook one day, Crook forever", simple, cool => avoiding at max these crawling serpents makes me Healthy AT MAX
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 06, 2018, 10:42:02 pm
That's old stereotype, yet people so commonly make the mistake. They don't have anything against Linux or open source, based on any news about them in past years
https://www.howtogeek.com/265900/everything-you-can-do-with-windows-10s-new-bash-shell/
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/open-source-program-microsoft-open-source-thrives/
That may be EEE strategy.

On the one side Linux is made available on Windows. But having dual boot Windows / Linux is incredibly difficult.

In my case, my BIOS looks for the Microsoft folder in the EFI partition. It ignores the EFI configuration. So even after installing Linux and having the EFI configured, it would still boot on Windows. I had to rename the folder in the EFI partition so that the BIOS would let it go and finally use the EFI configuration it was supposed to read.

In my case, I did non want to ditch Windows completely, simply to have the choice and of course progressively use Linux.

So I added in the GRUB menu an entry for Windows, because the existing one was not working anymore. So I had to figure what to put in GRUB config files and rebuild the menu.

I thought it was it, but as I started Windows again, it started to install itself in the EFI partition without telling me anything. By the way, Windows installing stuff all the time without asking permission, that's not ok. I guess I got at last some tranquility by using I don't remember what tool to disable the update, uninstalling the update installer and removing its directory in the Windows folder, and probably other things I don't remember.

At some point, Windows would not even shut down anymore. Clicking on the shut down would turn off the screen, but in fact, it was only logged off. Moving the mouse would show the log in screen. Had to keep the power button pushed to get a hard shutdown. As a result, that has destroyed some sectors of my hard drive and in order to read Windows drive while on Linux, I had to reset the NTFS partition a number of times.

So you see the two side of things: on one side you can use Linux within Windows, but on the other side, everything will be done to prevent you from dual booting and migrate towards Linux.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 06, 2018, 11:09:35 pm
that is why there are no "stereotypes" but WELL KNOWN FACTS meaning microsoft is a monopolist shark with no rule exept its own, and money rules as lead rule. In Europe, B. Gates would have been jailed for years, I guess, around 1990, hehehehehe
I had similar pb @circular, finally I configured bios to startup from external drives that I bought LOL ... actually reactOS for fun and Ubuntu for some professional projects that I share with sam707. my main hdd still boots on windows, I dont mind hahaha
Next step??? I may call an exorcist for my main hdd  :D :D :D because of... what is said earlier? oh yes "stereotype" lol!!!!
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 06, 2018, 11:25:19 pm
@circular, you can remove Windows directly. Try using Wine or a VM. With FPCUpDeluxe you can cross compile, so no need of keeping a separate Lazarus IDE on Windows.

If you use Visual Studio, maybe as well need to try another IDE that's open source. I'm using VS Code, (that's from microsoft...) but you can use Atom that's the father of VS Code (but thinking it twice, now it's from Microsoft as well...).
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: soerensen3 on June 07, 2018, 12:39:37 am
That's old stereotype, yet people so commonly make the mistake. They don't have anything against Linux or open source, based on any news about them in past years
https://www.howtogeek.com/265900/everything-you-can-do-with-windows-10s-new-bash-shell/
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/open-source-program-microsoft-open-source-thrives/
That may be EEE strategy.

On the one side Linux is made available on Windows. But having dual boot Windows / Linux is incredibly difficult.

In my case, my BIOS looks for the Microsoft folder in the EFI partition. It ignores the EFI configuration. So even after installing Linux and having the EFI configured, it would still boot on Windows. I had to rename the folder in the EFI partition so that the BIOS would let it go and finally use the EFI configuration it was supposed to read.

In my case, I did non want to ditch Windows completely, simply to have the choice and of course progressively use Linux.

So I added in the GRUB menu an entry for Windows, because the existing one was not working anymore. So I had to figure what to put in GRUB config files and rebuild the menu.

I thought it was it, but as I started Windows again, it started to install itself in the EFI partition without telling me anything. By the way, Windows installing stuff all the time without asking permission, that's not ok. I guess I got at last some tranquility by using I don't remember what tool to disable the update, uninstalling the update installer and removing its directory in the Windows folder, and probably other things I don't remember.

At some point, Windows would not even shut down anymore. Clicking on the shut down would turn off the screen, but in fact, it was only logged off. Moving the mouse would show the log in screen. Had to keep the power button pushed to get a hard shutdown. As a result, that has destroyed some sectors of my hard drive and in order to read Windows drive while on Linux, I had to reset the NTFS partition a number of times.

So you see the two side of things: on one side you can use Linux within Windows, but on the other side, everything will be done to prevent you from dual booting and migrate towards Linux.

I know what you mean, but a simpler solution is to enable "legacy" boot in the bios. I don't see any disadvantage in thiis. Then you might have to install grub into the boot sector again. I don't remember. Then everything should work as it used to.

Another thing like this is the user where in Windows 10 Microsoft is aggressively trying to force creating a cloud user on to you. When you install you have to look very carefully to find the option for a local user. When you are using a local user you can not login to windows store which is not really a problem for me but then you can't uninstall certain software and it comes loaded with PUP applications. Also I think some software you can only install through the store. Apple do similar things in MacOS X where they make it really hard for you to opt out from certain settings. On the other hand these are both good operating systems in different aspects. But still I lost my trust (If I had any :P ) in Microsoft and Apple because of things like this. So I will always prefer Linux over them despite it's rough edges here and there.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: RAW on June 07, 2018, 02:43:50 am
That's the price you have to pay when using any kind of cloud services. It's very nice to use this, but anybody with money can take a look at your source code and your data. That is of course one reason why they did this...

(It's the same thing with smartphones...)

And yeah, it's a shame, but history is repeating itself over and over again. (DIVIDE AND RULE!)
I can only speak for germany, but right now I am not allowed to talk about things in the past that my step-grandfather told me once, because they will directly arrest me if I don't tell exactly the same story as written in the history books...

AND that is not a new topic as you all should know...
M$ is a part of this game!
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: taazz on June 07, 2018, 04:46:32 am
I do not dislike microsoft, I made good leaving with its products so far. They always talk about monopolistic behavior which I never witnessed first hand, but as far as I can tell what ever microsoft acquired, which had its own success, it kept the product's marketing and policies mostly intact (eg skype). So I see this as a good thing it might get annoying after a while, as every "cloud" service becomes, but as long as I can avoid logging in to their site and keep updating my code directly from desktop with out their input or harassment I'm ok. When the time comes that I have to prove I'm not a bot to them I'll switch hosts as easily as I switched from sourceforge to github.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: ASBzone on June 07, 2018, 02:33:35 pm
...Their major products have closed source and therefore they can possibly do some code stealing - i.e. using open source code in their projects and selling it as their own. My philosophy: code itself doesn't matter, cuz it can we rewritten - ideas do. That's, why my code is closed now. Not because I'm greedy and selfish, but because I respect time and effort, I've invested into ideas, ...

So, commercial company has closed source, and that makes them untrustworthy, and they are likely to be hiding code theft... but you electing to move from open source to closed source is a savvy business decision?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 07, 2018, 10:36:35 pm
on the other hand M$ anounced W10 is their last version, meaning they don't plan another one but updates. That let reactOS time to improve its compatibility. that's why i'm actually 'playing' with reactOS (948MB OS, sort of fast emulating windows NT). Wine on Ubuntu is cool too.
opensource eats up commercial market and commercial market encompasses opensource... snake biting its tail
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: bazinga! on June 10, 2018, 04:54:26 am
This is Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella’s second big acquisition, following the $26.2 billion acquisition of LinkedIn two years ago.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 11, 2018, 12:41:29 pm
@circular, you can remove Windows directly. Try using Wine or a VM. With FPCUpDeluxe you can cross compile, so no need of keeping a separate Lazarus IDE on Windows.

If you use Visual Studio, maybe as well need to try another IDE that's open source. I'm using VS Code, (that's from microsoft...) but you can use Atom that's the father of VS Code (but thinking it twice, now it's from Microsoft as well...).
Hmm I tried installing a virtual machine on Windows to run Linux and it was very slow. I would be surprised the contrary would be fast. Also I don't have a CD as there is none anymore. I saw that it is possible to download an ISO, so I'll give it a try.

I am not against using Microsoft software, in fact I like Visual Studio. What bothers me is to be in a Microsoft prison. It is not an uncommon practice in businesses of course. Thankfully there are some cross platform tools like Lazarus.  :-*

@plGrimm: ReactOS seems like a great project indeed.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 11, 2018, 02:22:38 pm
 @circular, it depends, VM Ware is fast, and Virtual Box is slow.
https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_workstation_player/12_0

And yes, you're right. Visual Studio is not in Linux, that's the problem if you're used to work with it.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 11, 2018, 04:56:20 pm
Is VMware free? I thought it wasn't.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Handoko on June 11, 2018, 05:04:59 pm
I've just checked the Wikipedia. VMware (Workstation) Player is free for non-commercial use, the non free version has more features. I'll stick with VirtualBox and Wine.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMware_Workstation_Player
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 11, 2018, 05:25:29 pm
Ok well trying on VirtualBox on Linux, it does not seem so slow. However, the same problem happens again: lots of stuff is running and installing in the background. There's Cortana, Windows Search, OneDrive, etc. There may be some services that turn them off but they don't have the same name. And I can't even remove Cortana from the bar because it says my license key is not valid.

No really I am tired of Windows 10.

At least I can now safely run it from within a virtual machine. So that's for that.  :)
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: josh on June 11, 2018, 06:12:14 pm
I install classic shell on my windows 10 systems, You can quickly switch between a Windows 7 type layout and a Window 10 ( constantly changing desktop).
http://www.classicshell.net/

My pet hate with windows 10, is no matter what you remove, on the next update they come back with even more bloatware/adware; I call it this because I did not ask for it or even had the option of whether i want it).
Sometimes you restart you machine and it does not look anything like it was when you turned it off.  This even applies to Cortana, you disable it, kill it and next update all your customizations are reset and the damn rubbish comes back.

I liked windows when you had control, not someone elses view on what you should have and how it should look and behave.

Oops sorry this is not a windows Bash :) :P
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: marcov on June 11, 2018, 06:20:37 pm
@circular, it depends, VM Ware is fast, and Virtual Box is slow.

With what?  For me VB was much faster going from vmware player to VB due to paravirtualized Linux.

If somebody has both, on what system is a FPC snapshot build faster?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 11, 2018, 06:28:34 pm
@circular, it depends, VM Ware is fast, and Virtual Box is slow.

With what?  For me VB was much faster going from vmware player to VB due to paravirtualized Linux.

If somebody has both, on what system is a FPC snapshot build faster?

I've used both, VM Ware and Virtual Box, in both sides, Windows to Linux, and Linux to Windows.

And VM Ware "looks" faster (that's the true word), I mean the UI is more responsive than with Virtual Box. About compile time of FPC, I've not tested it because I usually cross compile. I only test the final executables in the VM's.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 11, 2018, 06:48:32 pm
slow? huh... on PC bought in 1997 maybe  :P on my I7 Oracle is as good as a rabbit running thru carrots

i7-4770 cpu @ 3.40 GHz
Ram: 64 go
gpu NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 11, 2018, 06:50:56 pm
slow? huh... on PC bought in 1997 maybe  :P on my I7 Oracle is as good as a rabbit running thru carrots

I have an i7 too, and I recognise that VM Ware works faster in the visuals.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 11, 2018, 06:55:22 pm
slow? huh... on PC bought in 1997 maybe  :P on my I7 Oracle is as good as a rabbit running thru carrots

I have an i7 too, and I recognise that VM Ware works faster in the visuals.

then remove your gloves and learn to config... or you'll be condemned to pay for CRAPS forever AHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

i7-4770 cpu @ 3.40 GHz
Ram: 64 go
gpu NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 11, 2018, 06:56:32 pm
it was my yearly advice  :D
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 11, 2018, 08:43:03 pm
slow? huh... on PC bought in 1997 maybe  :P on my I7 Oracle is as good as a rabbit running thru carrots

I have an i7 too, and I recognise that VM Ware works faster in the visuals.

then remove your gloves and learn to config... or you'll be condemned to pay for CRAPS forever AHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

i7-4770 cpu @ 3.40 GHz
Ram: 64 go
gpu NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760

Maybe because the GeForce, I don't have one. I'm with the Intel HD Graphics.

You can run 3D software on the VM in VirtualBox? DirectX 10 for example?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 11, 2018, 08:55:59 pm
it was my yearly advice  :D

Thanks. I need to upgrade my machine, then I can say if with a better machine VirtualBox works fine.

With my current machine, I can only run fine VM Ware.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: GetMem on June 11, 2018, 09:07:56 pm
VMWare is far better then VirtualBox.  :)
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: Thaddy on June 11, 2018, 09:59:57 pm
How?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: soerensen3 on June 11, 2018, 10:39:47 pm
Did you install the guest extensions for virtual box? Did you enable Hardware virtualization in both virtual box and your bios? Because only then you get full speed. Maybe you have assigned too little ram? You can enable to use your gpu for hardware opengl also.

How about qemu? Is it comparable in speed?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 12, 2018, 12:06:50 am
Ok well trying on VirtualBox on Linux, it does not seem so slow. However, the same problem happens again: lots of stuff is running and installing in the background. There's Cortana, Windows Search, OneDrive, etc. There may be some services that turn them off but they don't have the same name. And I can't even remove Cortana from the bar because it says my license key is not valid.

No really I am tired of Windows 10.

At least I can now safely run it from within a virtual machine. So that's for that.  :)

Good =)

Well, yes it always requires a new key, even if you had one for another machine.

And yes, is made for a big machine, even if it works with for example 2 gb.

I use also VirtualBox, just that in my machine VMWare works better, but I only use it for personal projects, for business I use VirtualBox.

I ran this game today to compare:https://twogentlemensoftware.gitlab.io/powersphere/

I can't play it nor in VirtualBox or VMWare, but in VirtualBox it displays a glitchy screen, when in VMWare it displays ok (but controls are not right in the VM, so I can't play it).

But as I already say, I only have an old Intel HD Graphics and an i7 4790, plus 8 gb of ram. That for sure is not good for VM's.

Edit: for those that has better machines, and also good configured his VM's, test the game and share how it works in your VM's, both in VMWare (you can use the free one) and VirtualBox. I already shared my test.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 12, 2018, 12:26:53 am
Some more test. This time I tested it on Windows 10 in a VM Parallels on macOS High Sierra. The VM has only 1.5 GB of ram.

I can play the game! And works fast. So, Parallels is better, or my Mac is better than my PC?

The Mac is 2011
i5 2 cores 2 ghz
4 gb of ram

The PC is 2015 (or 2014 I can't remember)
i7 4790 8 cores, 3 ghz
8 gb of ram

I've set all the settings to top recommended in all VM's. So is Parallels better, or just the Mac is better?

But this is going to far, it is about GitHub not VM's. Sorry  :)
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 12, 2018, 11:00:22 am
@lainz
I tried the game on Chromium on Linux. On Linux it was fast enough even with my Intel Graphics. Now trying on the VM... It is slow, from 1 FPS to 3 FPS.

Note : just to download Chromium it took me 15 minutes as Microsoft Edge was slow and crashing. When I finally downloaded the install, it told me the executable was unknown and that it did not want ot execute it, with just a button "Do not execute". Clicking on the more info link, it finally displayed the "Execute" button. Same thing to change the default browser. Every bit of experience with Microsoft is just irritating.

I was looking at some video rant against Google and I was thinking about our dependency to big corporations.

I guess even being on Linux, I am still dependent on Google search, Google map and Youtube. There are some alternative for search engines and maps, like Duckduckgo and Tomtom. Yet the biggest dependency that remains in all cases is YouTube.

Google is not as irritating as Microsoft though. Even if the fact that it is censoring things on copyright grounds is borderline.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 12, 2018, 02:14:13 pm
Thanks for testing it.

And yes, we're talking of dependency. To github, to some VM software, to any company. In fact, we're humans and to live we need dependecy on others, since we can not (or historically choose) to don't do everything by ourselves, specialize and evolve in that way.

That is good, but also gives us the freedom to choose our dependencies, well... the thing is that we're not alone in the world! So if people choose YouTUBE to upload his videos, and you want to see them, doesn't matter if there are alternatives, because the video are there. The same with the users, most uses Windows, and you as a developer can ignore it, but is not as simple.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: ASBzone on June 12, 2018, 02:48:09 pm
I can play the game! And works fast. So, Parallels is better, or my Mac is better than my PC?

Parallels is a different kind of application virtualization product than VirtualBox and VMWare.

Also, we don't know what other stuff you have running on your PC vs your Mac, so it is hard to say more...
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 12, 2018, 03:37:13 pm
I can play the game! And works fast. So, Parallels is better, or my Mac is better than my PC?

Parallels is a different kind of application virtualization product than VirtualBox and VMWare.

Also, we don't know what other stuff you have running on your PC vs your Mac, so it is hard to say more...

For that I asked to anyone to test it, so I'm not the one with the wrong PC, settings and running it badly alone..
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 12, 2018, 07:11:40 pm
Thanks for testing it.
You're welcome. To give more detail, I have the software additions installed and hardware virtualization enabled. It seems it is not really using it however.

Quote
And yes, we're talking of dependency. To github, to some VM software, to any company. In fact, we're humans and to live we need dependecy on others, since we can not (or historically choose) to don't do everything by ourselves, specialize and evolve in that way.
Of course. I agree the is no such thing as independence. There is however the autonomy of choices. I guess that's where the problem is. Hiding buttons to make click another one, make it complicated to do some things, installing things without your consent, etc. I've lived quite well with Windows up to version 7.

Quote
That is good, but also gives us the freedom to choose our dependencies, well... the thing is that we're not alone in the world! So if people choose YouTUBE to upload his videos, and you want to see them, doesn't matter if there are alternatives, because the video are there.
Well for now YouTube is not that bad, you can find anything, it does not seem much filtered. It is infinitely much better than TV for that matter.

Quote
The same with the users, most uses Windows, and you as a developer can ignore it, but is not as simple.
I don't ignore that there are Windows users, that's one reason I need you Lainz now that I have chosen Linux.   :-*

In fact, switching to Linux has helped me solve issues with BGRABitmap on this OS so now it's good on both Windows and Linux.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 12, 2018, 11:23:22 pm
You misunderstood what were virtual machines invented for, guys
they weren't invented to play games but to build cloud's servers and be parts of them. In their real application domain, which is massive data processing around communication, -- and not blinking screens while blasting aliens like on nitendo or xbox -- , they do the job (assuming you give them enough RAM, cheap nowadays)

reading your gamer tests, I am damn afraid that in few years a twisted mind come here and will complain that he/she can't play "space invaders" in his/her Vbox running a windows in a Vbox running a linux in a VM running a windows installed on an iMac LOL
 :D :D :D
yes because you can install a vbox inside a vbox itself installed in a vbox... if you like tortures  >:D or play last 3D game using tomorrow technology on an emulator with 4 FPS per hour LOOOOL all is possible to twisted minds HAHAHAHAHAH
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 13, 2018, 12:38:52 am
@circular, sure I will keep testing on Windows and Mac.

And about GitHub. We can keep using it or switch to GitLab or Bitbucket, what do you think?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 13, 2018, 12:57:30 am
You misunderstood what were virtual machines invented for, guys
they weren't invented to play games but to build cloud's servers and be parts of them. In their real application domain, which is massive data processing around communication, -- and not blinking screens while blasting aliens like on nitendo or xbox -- , they do the job (assuming you give them enough RAM, cheap nowadays)

reading your gamer tests, I am damn afraid that in few years a twisted mind come here and will complain that he/she can't play "space invaders" in his/her Vbox running a windows in a Vbox running a linux in a VM running a windows installed on an iMac LOL
 :D :D :D
yes because you can install a vbox inside a vbox itself installed in a vbox... if you like tortures  >:D or play last 3D game using tomorrow technology on an emulator with 4 FPS per hour LOOOOL all is possible to twisted minds HAHAHAHAHAH

Well, I think game developers must use real hardware. I'm not against that.

Someone mentioned QEmu, well BlueStacks is the faster Android emulator I've run, and is a VM. Is way faster than the normal Android emulator that comes with Android SDK. And games can be played at full screen of a big monitor with no problems.

Is targeted to play games. And why if I can play a game in an emulator, is that wrong?

Like playing an old game on a VM, that doesn't run for example on Windows 10.

If a VM is better in Graphics, why is that bad?
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 13, 2018, 02:00:54 am
@lainz
I was using bluestacks for years, then I went upset because of ads, finally I installed Nox Player (I think it is from China, but multilingual) and since I installed Nox Player, trust me,  my opinion is BlueStacks is a fuckn slow crap compared

Give Nox Player a try , you'll see I am RIGHT
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: piGrimm on June 13, 2018, 02:01:57 am
https://www.bignox.com (https://www.bignox.com)
no add, no firm contest, no craps, AND DAMN FAST
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 13, 2018, 11:46:24 am

@lainz:
I suppose we can keep Github while it works fine. If ever something arises that is really bothering, we can move somewhere else. Moving would entail updating all references to Github etc. and there is already SourceForge as well.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: lainz on June 13, 2018, 08:45:33 pm
@lainz:
I suppose we can keep Github while it works fine. If ever something arises that is really bothering, we can move somewhere else. Moving would entail updating all references to Github etc. and there is already SourceForge as well.

Ok. Yes, we have the SF where it all began!  :)
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: marcov on June 13, 2018, 10:03:04 pm
pigrimm seems to have left the building. I cleaned up the thread a bit.
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: circular on June 14, 2018, 06:29:23 pm
Indeed.

@lainz

Yes, who knows maybe someday we will go back to SourceForge  :D
Title: Re: microsoft buys github
Post by: x2nie on June 17, 2018, 03:11:00 am
@leledumb
....
Pardon me, brother/sister/sir.. Your wrong typo is like something mistake in my eye.
Lele Dumbo is a name of species which is White Catfish.
Dumb is another think that has different meaning.  >:D
No offense. 😉  O:-)