Lazarus

Programming => General => Topic started by: nick1965 on December 02, 2021, 03:08:17 pm

Title: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 02, 2021, 03:08:17 pm
why nothing works on lazarus?

1) you install cross compike and trunk version with fpcdeluxe and 50% of components are not working.
    also you get  so many errors

2) You install laz for android and you must be charismatic to find out that you need old versions of NDK and SDK and god knows what else.
3) You install it from source and you leave it one day and you pray and you get 10000 errors.

is it so big deal to create seperate Installation msi for each OS?

I just popup to say that before i uninstall anything from lazarus and continue with me loved Delphi.

the only good think i can find is that is running ( for simple tasks ) good on Freebsd Anything else is just so bad.





Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: af0815 on December 02, 2021, 03:32:12 pm
a) installing trunk is at your own risk
b) laz for android is not a Lazarus problem - it is no part of Lazarus. Nor the NDK or SDK. You can ask here https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/board,43.0.html
c) for point 3 use the last stable. If you use trunk/master - it is on your own risk.

Only Windows have msi. Delphi is only the lastest stable (other version are not provided).

The 'official installers' are here https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/ or use the link on the left side of the forum. This are the official installers.

Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Handoko on December 02, 2021, 03:52:09 pm
Trunk is not for common users.

Don't complain if you don't know how to make it works. As suggested by af0815, use the stable version or the official installer.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Bart on December 02, 2021, 04:21:39 pm
Also, using Lazarus trunk with fpc trunk is not for the faint-hearted.

I run Lazarsus trunk (bigide) with stable fpc on Windows, compiled from source (Lazarus, that is).
I don't pray. It just works (and sometimes not, but that's trunk, it's unstable by definition).
I used to have Lazarus fixes with stable fpc, and Lazaus trunk with fpc trunk without major troubles, but did not get around to have that again after the move to git.

I run Lazarus trunk with fpc stable on Linux Mint using GTK2 or QT4.
Runs just fine.
Still no praying needed.

I don't have an android device, nor a Mac, never had FreeBSD on a machine.
I do have Haiku on a machine, but no fpc/Lazarus on that.

I don't have a recent Delpi (and not going to pay huge $$ for that either).

Bart
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: GetMem on December 02, 2021, 04:44:56 pm
I have an uncontrollable urge to write something "nice" to nick1965, but I better restrain myself.
Good luck with Delphi!

Jeez! %)



Edit: Corrected typo.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: marcov on December 02, 2021, 04:55:10 pm
is it so big deal to create seperate Installation msi for each OS?

Everything is open to the public. Why don't you try it ?
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: MarkMLl on December 02, 2021, 05:24:50 pm
I have an uncontrollable urge to write something "nice" to nick1965, but I better restrain myself.

Me too, particularly since he thinks that .msi is cross-platform.

MarkMLl
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Martin_fr on December 02, 2021, 08:11:25 pm
why nothing works on lazarus?

Well, I use Lazarus and it works. Strange...
But then yes, some parts work better, some less.


Quote
1) you install cross compike and trunk version with fpcdeluxe and 50% of components are not working.
    also you get  so many errors
Here is the first problem, what errors? Lot's of people use trunk, and they don't run into "so many errors".

Yet, yes the errors may be there. But unless you tell us about every single error, exactly and in detail what happens, and what steps did you do before it happened => how can we help?
Or how can anyone fix them?

And maybe it's just a setting or something?

Quote
2) You install laz for android and you must be charismatic to find out that you need old versions of NDK and SDK and god knows what else.
3) You install it from source and you leave it one day and you pray and you get 10000 errors.

is it so big deal to create seperate Installation msi for each OS?

Well, I don't personally use the android stuff. So I can't comment.

We offer installers for Win, Linux and Mac.

And if there were volunteers to help, maybe we could offer more. But currently we do not have the manpower for that.
It's not the building.
It's writing and maintaining the build scripts.
Maintaining the build environment.
Testing before and after the builds.

All that takes a lot of time.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: dbannon on December 02, 2021, 11:22:02 pm
I run Lazarsus trunk (bigide) with stable fpc on Windows, compiled from source (Lazarus, that is).
I don't pray. It just works (and sometimes not, but that's trunk, it's unstable by definition).

Just to enlarge a little on Bart's comment, I routinely use Trunk and while the risk of a problem is always there, in practice, its very, very rare.

> and you leave it one day and you pray and you get 10000 errors.

If you get 10000 error on one day, you would almost certainly have got some on the previous day too. I expect your lack of experience is a factor here.

> cross compike and trunk version with fpcdeluxe and 50% of components are not working.

Your choose to use  fpcdeluxe, when it works, its great, when it does not, put in a bug report. Its difficult for a new comer to see what fpcdeluxe is doing and you sure sound new.

Open source suits some people, not others. Some people need to have all their problems solved for them by knowledgeable people, open source users want to become knowledgeable people themselves. Choose carefully....

Davo
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: af0815 on December 03, 2021, 07:48:06 am
I have looked for the posts of nick1965 (are only few, since start of Nov 2021). I looks he is searching/testing for complex things in Lazarus/fpc like cef4, indy, lamw, weblaz .. on Mac/Carbon, freebsd, maybe Win, ... with or without qt5.

With this, i can understand he get frustrated. But without the basics, he cannot attack such complex things. And then only one by one. 

my 2 cents

Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: DonAlfredo on December 03, 2021, 07:53:34 am
I guess I have had a discussion with the OP on fpcupdeluxe issues tracker yesterday.
Opinions have been exchanged. Some issues resolved, some explained, some rejected.
All ok for now.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Blade on December 03, 2021, 10:43:47 am
I've seen similar behavior on other forums for different programming languages.  Newbies/beginners get frustrated, then blame the programming language, IDEs, compilers, or other tools instead of their own actions.  Instead of looking in the mirror first, and reading the manual or help documents, they blame everyone or anything else.  Sometimes, they can have a legitimate complaint, but it's usually best to have some patience, double check what we are doing, and do some research.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: MarkMLl on December 03, 2021, 10:58:37 am
I've seen similar with undergraduate (and, extremely rarely) postgraduate students. It had the capability of blowing up beyond anything reasonable (e.g. if the student's consulate made a formal complaint that poorly-maintained equipment had affected the degree they'd paid for) and was almost always caused by three things:

a) Jumping in with both feet with no attempt to learn basic techniques.

b) Being unable to formulate the resulting problems.

c) Being unwilling to ask the support staff who were there to help him.

The result of those three things working together was that when the issue was finally raised it would either be with a tutor several weeks later than it should have been, with senior staff towards the end of the academic year, or at government level.

I recall only one case where the equipment or software genuinely was the cause of the problem.

MarkMLl
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: SymbolicFrank on December 03, 2021, 05:07:32 pm
Fpcupdeluxe is really great! Ok, some small bugs and there and some things that could be better, but that has more to do with everything changing all the time. Also, if you add/remove packages, that Lazarus simply rebuilds itself. And, while not documented very well, there are plenty of makefiles. Debug builds are a bit more complex (and also partly undocumented, AFAIK), but they allow you to step into everything. And, last but not least: if you don't like something, you can change it to your heart's content. Although it is recommended to do it right and submit it as an improvement or plugin. (If your boss allows that, if you did that as part of your job.)

"I use FPC/Lazarus, so it cannot be done" is never a valid excuse ;)
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: RedOctober on December 03, 2021, 05:17:33 pm
I switched from Delphi (after using it since Delphi 1 in 1996) to Lazarus (182) about four years ago.  I have built many apps, big and small.  My last one was a medical records system for a clinic.  I only use the stable released versions, never the trunk.  My apps are stable, compiles are consistent. Bugs I run into are my own.  I'll never go back to Delphi, Lazarus is just more sensible, many units are better thought out, and do more than in Delphi. In Delphi, I think they've moved to the subscription model, which I don't want, and Delphi is full of bugs that are never fixed, and if they are, a new set of bugs crops up, and the only way to get a bug fix is to get the next version.  Lazarus was built by programmers to be a tool for programmers, not big corp trying to milk everyone.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: jamie on December 03, 2021, 05:26:25 pm
I still need to keep a copy of Delphi operating due to my employer of my day job because they aren't so confident yet of lazarus compiles GUI apps plus there is a lib used in Delphi that is specific to a piece of hardware we talk to that i can't get enough info on to make our own drivers for it but I am still working on that one.

 I do have a HMI app that I've got going in lazarus and test running but I've been instructed to ensure that a Delphi compliant app must be ready to activate in any case that does the same and is able to read the same config and project files.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 10:26:15 pm
Amazing.
4 times i asked Questions about setup for android and i took ZERO answers.
and when i said my opinion for a buggy IDE  i have to Pages of Comments.

so predictable behavor.

i win 20 euros. because i had guess it already and i make a bet i dont even bother read the answers.

1st time in Windows History you have to make Install By make and gcc.
very cleaver and prototype  like Apple "Think Different"








Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 10:31:23 pm
Trunk is not for common users.

Don't complain if you don't know how to make it works. As suggested by af0815, use the stable version or the official installer.

well actually i have install 10 testing apps on my android device.
the complains is all abou ie. try to install indy components.
try to open demo lamw projects and belive me NOTHING works with my 35 Years of expirience.


Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 10:34:31 pm
a) installing trunk is at your own risk
b) laz for android is not a Lazarus problem - it is no part of Lazarus. Nor the NDK or SDK. You can ask here https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/board,43.0.html
c) for point 3 use the last stable. If you use trunk/master - it is on your own risk.

Only Windows have msi. Delphi is only the lastest stable (other version are not provided).

The 'official installers' are here https://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/ or use the link on the left side of the forum. This are the official installers.

all the Offical Documents i read about it is outdated .
so i trust a video in youtube with trunk version and seems that was the only way to manage to compile some hello world code.
but are too many too many more.
I have a stucked Ide when i click on a component that form goes to background.
and if is to spend i year to learn the Editor to write code then is just waste of time.
problem like that do not exists in Delphi.

and something else if i did not liked ( because looks like delphi 5 ide )  i will not spent 4 days to try to make things work.
so my comments are like that because of the disapoint .






Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: JanRoza on December 03, 2021, 10:34:53 pm
Maybe you haven't read the comments very well: the standard IDE isn't buggy, but you are using the trunk version which by nature is buggy that is why it is trunk.
And if you use trunk you accept the bugs and the work it takes to use it.
If you use the normal standard IDE there is a neat install, so either use the standard IDE or do the work that is needed by trunk.
Trying to put the blame on forum users that always are ready to help everyone is just an insult for those people.
Your negative approach certainly does not invite people to give you serious help.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Bart on December 03, 2021, 10:36:35 pm
problem like that do not exists in Delphi.

Well, stay with Delphi then?
Nobody forces you to use Lazarus.

Bart
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 10:39:06 pm
I have an uncontrollable urge to write something "nice" to nick1965, but I better restrain myself.
Good luck with Delphi!

Jeez! %)



Edit: Corrected typo.


well i have luck sincer delphi 1 for win3.11 /workgroups
and since then never let me down.

Creating .exe,dlls,fastcgi,isapis for iis, Gui apps, Console apps and gues what if i was not  angry for 2 things which is bad in delphi i will never try lazarus.

1st)  You cannot run it on Windows 2008 r2 if you have aero them disable ( at least for android creations )
2nd) You have to pay a lot every year to be able to follow the sdk versions of android.
3rd) You cannot create Freebsd FastCgi apps or Console apps.


So the only reason i tried lazarus was for  Android And i think is Utopia  to try to install it.




Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: trev on December 03, 2021, 10:44:25 pm
why nothing works on lazarus?

I think the better question is why you appear to be the only one for whom "nothing works".
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: MarkMLl on December 03, 2021, 11:30:44 pm
I'd suggest that the best question is "After antagonising just about everybody who would normally expend a substantial amount of time and effort trying to help me, how do I salvage the situation?".

Look, I think we all appreciate that something's gone badly wrong here, but I think (OP) that you need to go back to a stable version of Lazarus/FPC on your chosen development platform, knock together one or two simple programs to satisfy yourself it works, and then /gradually/ familiarise yourself with Android development.

MarkMLl
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 11:44:26 pm
I switched from Delphi (after using it since Delphi 1 in 1996) to Lazarus (182) about four years ago.  I have built many apps, big and small.  My last one was a medical records system for a clinic.  I only use the stable released versions, never the trunk.  My apps are stable, compiles are consistent. Bugs I run into are my own.  I'll never go back to Delphi, Lazarus is just more sensible, many units are better thought out, and do more than in Delphi. In Delphi, I think they've moved to the subscription model, which I don't want, and Delphi is full of bugs that are never fixed, and if they are, a new set of bugs crops up, and the only way to get a bug fix is to get the next version.  Lazarus was built by programmers to be a tool for programmers, not big corp trying to milk everyone.

So do it your self as i just did it.

1) download the ide as the 1st post suggest
2) Install it and open online package manager
3) Select Lamw
4) You will Get Error complane about scanners.

After 10 minutes search in google Replace .Scanners with .Parsers on .pas
5) try to compile
Success
id is reloading

try to go to set paths for lamw directories

NOT RESPOND
and the Everything is STUCK   


very nice for a "STABLE" version  lol   
i had enough maybe after 1-2 years if i am alive i try to reinstall it


Cheers.
thanks for all comments
Uninstalling for 5th time and last.

* Even the Uninstall is not working well it keeps trash on users\appdata





















Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Bart on December 03, 2021, 11:54:52 pm
To be fair to nick1965.

When I first started with Lazarus on Suse 10.0, it took me ages to get it to install, run, compile and link anything, due to missing libraries and me being a novice when it comes to linux at that time.
I got so frustrated.

Coming from Windows, where even in the early times (Laz 0.9.x), Lazarus ran out of the box when using the installer, it was a bit of a shock.
(I did use the official rpm for Suse.)

But the people out here on this forum always were patient and tried to help me with all the errors I encountered.

I have owned TP3, TP 5.5, TP6.0, D1, D2, D3Pro and D7PE.
All these Delphi IDE's of that era feel so clumsy compared to even Lazarus 0.9.26.

I only use Delphi now to check Lazarus/fpc behaviour against Delphi (but that becomes rather difficult with e.g. Unicode, overloading).

Mind you, I only program for fun.
I am not a professional programmer.
I don't want to spend huge amount of euro's on Delphi.

At some point in time I got frustrated with obvious bugs in LCL code that I needed in programs I ported from Delphi.
I learned to fix those bugs and by doing so helped to improve Lazarus.

So, initial frustration became fascination and a love for this open source initiative.

Bart
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: jamie on December 04, 2021, 12:03:22 am
Hmm, doesn't Delphi support the Andriod targets?

I can't remember now cause I would need to boot my other PC for that but I would say if that is so  you could always pay for that, its not too bad on your savings the first time around but I take it that you have been doing Delphi for some time now so be prepared to pay that price each year. It most likely will solve your issues.

 Meanwhile anyone that has issues with the Andriod port maybe should consult the authors of the packages for it ?
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Martin_fr on December 04, 2021, 12:46:12 am
Amazing.
4 times i asked Questions about setup for android and i took ZERO answers.
and when i said my opinion for a buggy IDE  i have to Pages of Comments.

so predictable behavor.

Well, your topic just said "bugs". It didn't specify "android related bugs".
So your audience was way bigger. I would guess (but I have no real numbers) that most replies in this thread came from people who havent used Laz for Android at all (e.g. I haven't).
Bigger audience => more replies.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: dsiders on December 04, 2021, 01:03:15 am
To be fair to nick1965.

Well, I thought I was fair. I added him to my ignore list and got on with my life.

You get what you give.
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: Warfley on December 04, 2021, 04:37:47 am
well actually i have install 10 testing apps on my android device.
the complains is all abou ie. try to install indy components.
try to open demo lamw projects and belive me NOTHING works with my 35 Years of expirience.
First I would advise you before using LAMW, to first take a look and try to understand what it actually is. From the wiki: https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/LAMW
Quote
LAMW is a set of Lazarus wizards you will launch from menus Build and Tools.
It helps to set parameters, organize libraries and to run the tools required to make APK files, used to install applications on Android.
This installation includes several packages containing components useful to develop Android Programs with Lazarus, using JNI.
So LAMW is not a part of Lazarus. LAMW is a set of Add-Ons and components for Lazarus, developed independently from it. It is not part of the Lazarus or FreePascal project and the developers have no responsibility over it and no obligation to make it work.
LAMW not working properly is as much the fault of Lazarus as it is the fault of your Operating system if a third party program crashes. If you have problems with third party libraries, try to find help from the community of the third party library, not blame the underlying platform.

Second, you need to understand what you are doing. When you use Trunk, you use an unstable version that might change on a day to day basis. Also third party packages, like Indy are not, and simply due to organisational resons, can not be always up to date with Trunk. In fact, you can not expect any Package to work with an unstable version of Lazarus period.
If you use Trunk, it is on your own risk. If you don't feel comfortable in potentially having to fix Bugs or incompatibilities in Lazarus and/or third party packages, you should not use it.
If LAMW requires the usage of Trunk, this is clearly not aimed at beginners and therefore probably not the right solution for you.

Lastly seriously what do you expect? LAMW is a rather small Open Source project with only 3 main developers who (probably) do this on a voluntary basis in their free time. There are large OpenSource projects that are outcompeting their proprietary counterparts (e.g. Clang), but these are projects have thousands of contributors and have vast financial resources through donations. LAMW doesn't have such resources, and a simple look at their Github shows this.
You compare this with Delphi here quite often, but Delphi is a commercial enterprise grade product developed by a team of full time developers and costs ~150€/month to use.
If you expect a fully fledged enterprise grade solution of the same quality as Delphi from a team of 3 voluntary developers completely for free, I don't know how to say that differently, but you are just dellusional
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: trev on December 04, 2021, 05:40:05 am
To be fair to nick1965
[...]
Coming from Windows, where even in the early times (Laz 0.9.x), Lazarus ran out of the box when using the installer, it was a bit of a shock. (I did use the official rpm for Suse.)

Except he is using Windows :-[
Title: Re: So many bugs in Lazarus Ide
Post by: El Salvador on December 04, 2021, 12:19:26 pm
problem like that do not exists in Delphi.
Wait. Are you comparing the use of a STABLE version of Delphi with a highly unstable version (associated with a nightly or worse) of Lazarus? Basically like compare Ubuntu daily build with Windows 11. A completely unequal comparison, in terms of software stability.

For a fair comparison, you should use Lazarus 2.0.12 at a minimum and meet the requirements of the various components (such as LAMW) you want to use.

Anyway, do you want to continue using Trunk? Well, if you run into problems and errors, you might start reporting them in the right places (issue trackers).
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