Lazarus
Miscellaneous => Suggestions => Topic started by: nsunny on April 12, 2013, 10:25:56 am
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Hello everyone,
I had come across the Lazarus project in 2009. Lazarus was suggested to me by a user from a forum for programing.
At first glance I thought of Lazarus as an outdated IDE, because nobody I know codes using it. But as I gone through the Lazarus Tutorial (http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Tutorial) I found it as good as any other IDEs out there, even better than some. As I gradually got used to the form designer, it wowed me. It is not less than any commercial IDE. I have heard that it is better than Delphi in many ways.
So I wonder, why did I have the impression that Lazarus is an outdated IDE? There were these reasons (for me) for the first time:
- Website (It hasn't changed a bit when I first saw it in 2009)
- Splash screen
- Windows all over my desktop
I think you will agree that a design is more than just a design. A design controls the way we think. That's why multinational companies do research and change their design, layout etc. And sometimes if they go too far they change their logo, symbol, mascot etc.
If we see some other open source projects, they have also changed their graphics. (For example, Gimp has changed their splash screen, Ubuntu changes their graphics [symbol is another thing] with every release. Recently Ubuntu 13.04 got the icons undated by a university department, I heard.)
A modern image can help Lazarus:
- Lead a person to think positive about Lazarus
- Lead a person to think it has modern features
- When similar graphics would be used, it will give the user an uniform experience with Lazarus
- The user will be more confident in the performance in the IDE
- There are lots of other reasons...
My question is to all of you forum members:
Do you think that the current Lazarus graphics (in the website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form) should be updated?
Do you think that modern images / graphics / design (cosmetic changes) should be adapted to make it feel more up to date?
Do you think that new graphics could interest more users to use Lazarus?
* I want to respect the current logos, the cheetah as a symbol. But can they be presented in other poses or angle or perspective to improve the design?
(May be you know that I have been working on a website prototype. (http://lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,20426.0.html) I don't want you to think that I am supporting my design through this thread. I am just asking that should we still have the old graphics, or should we move on to new ones, retaining/respecting the current symbols/logos to have an up to date impression?)
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Your questions are too general to be answered.
Of course, the Lazarus project will benefit from an adequate design that also conveys the information to be up-to-date. But the design should also be tasteful, modest, elegant and expressing some continuity.
To combine both messages is not an easy task. That is the reason why design is a job for a living.
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@jwdietrich:
In the absence of professional designers, we have to make do with what we have, I think.
Do you think that the current Lazarus graphics (in the website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form) should be updated?
No, I don't think they do.
I'm not against a change, but honestly I don't see the point - I do not think that changing the logo/graphics will cause more people to take an interest in Lazarus.
A website redesign - especially a clean, attractive main page - on the other hand, would help a lot.
Having that design blend in with the wiki would be a definite plus as well. The bugtracker... well, I really don't care that much about the layout as long as I can work with it quickly.
Do you think that modern images / graphics / design should be adapted to make it feel more up to date?
What is "it"? If you mean the website: sure.
If you mean the Lazarus IDE: no.
The "many windows" thing you saw is at least partly due because of incomplete docking support. All it takes is people to dive into the source code and start fixing things. If people are really interested in that, they'll do so. If they're not, they'll talk about it [1] ;)
[1] Not directed at you, nsunny, you're already contributing with your design etc, but it's a general phenomenon on the forum/mailing lists.
Do you think that new graphics could interest more users to use Lazarus?
Not really, no.
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In my opinion, no!
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Also IMO, the answers are: no, no, no.
Firstly it makes no difference in the number of active users to make changes for changes sake - it is more important that there continuous progress, and to avoid to many compatibility issues from version to version - there is nothing more annoying than facing a lot of broken dependencies when opening an older project.
Secondly, what is "modern"?
Is it "modern" when Microsoft create their horrible counterintuitive "modern UI"?
And in Linux the docking problem is negligible, eg. I do have 8 desktops, so for every instance of Lazarus I am having open, I use a separate desktop - and other desktops for browser, SQL admin, mail, etc.
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@nsunny
Do not bother with opinions contrary to what you are saying. Your ideas are good, although a bit arrogant. You think like a designer. People here are very proud of the technical quality of Lazarus and are conservative about it. Be constructive, make a concrete proposal and let people choose.
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I do agree with what typo says: if you let yourself be distracted by everybody's opinion, you'll never get things done.
Best to take everybody's input, but create a total design/prototype that can then be evaluated as a whole by the people that make the decisions.
That said, I'm almost sure you already know what I said and just wanted to get more input. That's fine ;)
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I do find your question a bit general and difficult to answer. What graphics or changes? you mentioned "website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form" so are you referring to cosmetic changes to make the site and Lazarus more attractive and not the GUI?
I do feel that Lazarus looks a bit "old" but whether cosmetic changes to the site or Lazarus screens/forms will help and by how much will certainly depend on what the changes are. A good change will certain attract more attention but serious users will look much deeper.
As suggested, maybe some concrete suggestions will help give direction to the thread.
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@jwdietrich:
In the absence of professional designers, we have to make do with what we have, I think.
@BigChimp:
You are absolutely right. I only wanted to say that it is a difficult task to implement a design that makes both an impression to be up-to-date and to be tasteful, modest, elegant and expressing some continuity. Currently we will not be able to engage a professional designer.
I do find your question a bit general and difficult to answer. What graphics or changes? you mentioned "website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form" so are you referring to cosmetic changes to make the site and Lazarus more attractive and not the GUI?
I do feel that Lazarus looks a bit "old" but whether cosmetic changes to the site or Lazarus screens/forms will help and by how much will certainly depend on what the changes are. A good change will certain attract more attention but serious users will look much deeper.
As suggested, maybe some concrete suggestions will help give direction to the thread.
@JJVillamor:
I agree with your statements. In some points a slight modernization may be beneficial, in others it wouldn't.
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I do agree with what typo says: if you let yourself be distracted by everybody's opinion, you'll never get things done.
Uhhh!
Up to a point that is true. Now however nsunny should care about opinions of other people.
He clearly thinks he has created a masterpiece with his page design. All his ideas are better than anybody else's. All his graphics are better than graphics created during the 12 years of Lazarus development.
I personally enjoy the Lazarus splash screen, even after looking at it many many times.
The new big cat face staring at me would get me pissed off after few weeks.
A sign of a good design is that it does not jump on your face.
The same happens with music or movies. There are some "good" pieces that you want to hear/see max. 2 times, but for the real good ones there is no upper limit. They always feel good.
Now the fact is that nsunny's page design is visually rather poor. Partly it is butt-ugly.
Almost all the boxes have a different color and they appear to be picked randomly from a color palette.
I don't see any "design" in this color scheme.
The page is cluttered with partially redundant bullet points. For example "Cross platform" is listed twice on the main page and then again in Features page.
IDE screenshots on a main page are a worn-out idea, used already millions of times. We could do better.
Besides the screenshots are so small that they give no information for anyone.
[Edit:] I meant screenshots in the top header bar. Elsewhere on the main page there could be some, although a dedicated page is better.
Many programmers are poor in visual design. nsunny is clearly no exception there.
There is a saying in my country: "A moped escaped from his hands." meaning that he lost control of the situation.
This is now happening to nsunny.
He is so much in love with his own desing that it blurs his view of reality.
nsunny, I still want to co-operate with you but let's take a short break now.
Juha
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At first, the situation on docked window layout has nothing to do with the rest of this. It is more a technical issue, and not at all a decision made by anyone.
It needs to be implemented. And that is known. And it is agreed.
Once it is, it will need to be decided, on what will be default. There are (and not too few) people who prefer the old style. But that decision must wait until the technical part is done. Only decision taken so far is, that the current none finished solutions will not be made default.
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What is modern?
Are curved lines (as seen in many Microsoft logos) modern?
Why? Because MS uses them?
Why should our cheetah an a column be "not modern"?
- Maybe because we used it for a long time now? Can't be, many companies use a logo (without change) for a very long time. (I haven't seen any apple logo with a 2nd bite-mark yet).
- Maybe because of it's content (ancient pillar)? At any time modern art has depicted ancient subjects. And just to say: An "apple" is even more ancient. It is documented to be one of the things known to the first humans (see Adam and Eve).
So what then makes the current splash screen "not modern"?
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Should we not first and foremost ask: What do we want to archive with an item (webpage, logo, splash-screen)?
For the web-page, we must archive to present certain information (and it is the information that should stand out, not the color). The old wed page (main/front page) did not convey much of that info. So it must be replaced.
A logo (and a splash screen) act more as a symbol. Something you see and immediately identify with the product.
Well a splash screen does have a certain amount of space to also provide information. But just to change the logo or the color of it, will not add that information.
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There is the argument of indicating change by changing the logo or splash screen.
Now this has nothing to do with "modern", but with "change".
Of course new users would not see the change, because they do not know the old one.
And existing users, will be more interested in the actual changes and improvements of the product.
And even if such change was done, it had to be done very subtle and in small steps. So that the established symbols would remain recognizable (this is important).
Microsoft has done that with the windows startup logo. It changed over the years, but in small steps, and the center piece (the 4 colors) always stayed there.
So if we were discussing change, towards something that in the subjective opinion of some, may be more modern, then that could be something like adding a shadow, or a 3d effect, while otherwise keeping the existing image. (No, I would not vote for that neither, but just as an example)
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Totally agreed with what martin_fr said...
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The only picture that I would change is the "Produced with Lazarus" logo at http://www.freepascal.org/pic/lazarus_produced_logo.gif. Its style resembles the first web pages from the early 90ies.
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I do find your question a bit general and difficult to answer. What graphics or changes? you mentioned "website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form" so are you referring to cosmetic changes to make the site and Lazarus more attractive and not the GUI?
Yes, the cosmetic changes. I have edited the question to explicitly mention that.
(I will keep silent, for now, by not affecting your judgement. I will not present any further logic until you finish expressing your opinion. Thanks.)
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The only picture that I would change is the "Produced with Lazarus" logo at http://www.freepascal.org/pic/lazarus_produced_logo.gif. Its style resembles the first web pages from the early 90ies.
Well that can probably be discussed. There are a few options that do not break with the identity preservation.
- One could use the same logo, but a uniform blue background, remove or change the frame.
- It could be done based on the paw. as an alternative logo.
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I don't think we ahave any definition of the "Lazarus identity". We have all (or most) of the elements needed.
- we have logos (certainly enough and established)
- we have some colors (blue from splash)
- not sure if we have a font...
- missing things like logo/font size relations.
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What is modern?
Are curved lines (as seen in many Microsoft logos) modern?
Why? Because MS uses them?
IMHO that already goes a step too far. The first question should be: "Does an open source project really need continuous restyling ?"
Specially, since contrary to companies like Borland/Embacadero and Microsoft, we don't compete against our own old versions, and
don't have artificially make the new version more look more modern
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The only picture that I would change is the "Produced with Lazarus" logo at ...
You could always use something like this... The three Lazarus logos created by myself (original The Gimp file is included). I made some other variations too, but can't find them now.
http://geldenhuys.co.uk/~graemeg/powered_by/
I use 001, but with the words "fpGUI Toolkit" in the middle. It goes in our About->Credits dialogs for our commercial apps.
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Specially, since contrary to companies like Borland/Embacadero and Microsoft, we don't compete against our own old versions, and don't have artificially make the new version more look more modern
A very good point.
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For now, remove TToolbars ebTop property, your Lazarus will look more modern.
in comctrls.pas
TToolBar = class(TToolWindow)
//....
property EdgeBorders; //default [ebTop];
They should make this default.
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The only picture that I would change is the "Produced with Lazarus" logo at ...
You could always use something like this... First two created by myself. I can't remember who created the third one. I made some other variations too, but can't find them now.
http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/powered_by/powered_by_001.png
http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/powered_by/powered_by_002.png
http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/powered_by/powered_by_003.png
I use 001, but with the words "fpGUI Toolkit" in the middle. It goes in our About->Credits dialogs for our commercial apps.
These banners are very beautiful. They are simultaneously modern, topical and conservative.
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Read at [lazarus-br]:
New splash for Lazarus: http://imagebin.org/253742
:)
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I guess there is no harm if the brazilians feel that splash screen is more suitable. You can do that with open source right?
But an opinion for what it is worth - the cheetah looks too tame - in contrast to a running, leaping, jumping or otherwise agile cheetah.
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I guess there is no harm if the brazilians feel that splash screen is more suitable. You can do that with open source right?
But an opinion for what it is worth - the cheetah looks too tame - in contrast to a running, leaping, jumping or otherwise agile cheetah.
At least the colors are more or less in harmony this time.
As explained, we don't need a new default splash-screen, but it could be selectable in IDE options.
Then everybody could switch to his favorite picture.
If somebody makes a patch to implement it, I will apply it.
Juha
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As explained, we don't need a new default splash-screen, but it could be selectable in IDE options.
Then everybody could switch to his favorite picture.
If somebody makes a patch to implement it, I will apply it.
If so make it a command line option. ANd only a cmd line option.
There already is one for no-splash.
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Read at [lazarus-br]:
New splash for Lazarus: http://imagebin.org/253742
That is the one, I had seen, and about which I did ask in my other post:
Are curved lines (as seen in many Microsoft logos) modern?
This looks like someone took a microsoft logo: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2009/11/11/behind-the-scenes-splash-screen.aspx
- Same colors
- similar curved lines. Actually they have a strong similarity with the default vista desktop background picture.
So all in all, a couple of MS items mixed together, and added a baby cheetah.
It associates that the product is by MS and that is not what we should want to announce.
ANd about the baby cheetah, I said it before. Me do already have a cheetah, in various positions. It is perfectly all right, and well associated with Lazarus. Not only does it not need replacement, if you look at this as a corporate identity issue (never mind, that we are no corporation) then it would be wrong to replace it.
An identity change is usally required when something is wrong with the old identity. If people have lost interest or trust in the product, but I am not aware that Lazarus has recently lost a huge amount of trust from it users.
We have critics sure, but they are less than those in support. And that means the image associated with our splash-image is overall good. No need to abandon it. It has taken a lots of years to get it known to the people.
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I guess there is no harm if the brazilians feel that splash screen is more suitable. You can do that with open source right?
But an opinion for what it is worth - the cheetah looks too tame - in contrast to a running, leaping, jumping or otherwise agile cheetah.
At least the colors are more or less in harmony this time.
As explained, we don't need a new default splash-screen, but it could be selectable in IDE options.
Then everybody could switch to his favorite picture.
If somebody makes a patch to implement it, I will apply it.
Juha
You can customize your own splash by replacing C:\Program Files\lazarus\images\splash_logo.png
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So all in all, a couple of MS items mixed together, and added a baby cheetah.
Damn right! Only now I realized it, too.
Maybe Microsoft agents try to infiltrate and take over our project. Now I understand everything! They see it as a too big threat for Visual Studio. :o
... or maybe not, but the image surely has strong influence from MS.
Juha
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And since we are at it.
Lets just say (for arguments sake) that this is more modern (at least in some peoples subjective opinion). Then let us ask: Why?
Actually I already answered that too:
Are curved lines (as seen in many Microsoft logos) modern?
Why? Because MS uses them?
should have been a statement, not a question: "Because MS uses them!"
Yes they look modern, because MS advertised them, and thereby MS created this association.
There is no color, or style, that is within itself modern. Such associations a created.
Another example: 10/15 years ago, white was no special color. Then someone put white earplugs on the market and a massive advertise campaign. Suddenly white earplugs (for mp3 players) were really hip. But it wasn't the color, it was the advertisement.
We can not start a multi-million advertisement campaign. But we should not surf on some one else's campaign either.
That means our logo and splash will never have (and do not need) the coolness of a hugely advertised brand.
And I actually see that as a plus, a huge bonus.
Our logo stands for the value of the product itself.
Way better than representing the merely projected statement of a campaign.
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My opinion is that Lazarus could have a lot of logos, even a lot of names, or it could change often, but the soul of the project would not change.
Appearance is important, but the truth is that it is not our main matter, so it could change at every week in order to be updated or match the taste of some sponsor, for instance.
Lazarus could have a lot of faces to the user, he/she could choose it. The community could have fun creating faces to Lazarus.
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Appearance is important, but the truth is that it is not our main matter, so it could change at every week in order to be updated or match the taste of some sponsor, for instance.
No. The appearance is part of a brand which is important even if the brand is not very well known due to advertising and other issues. Logos and images are an integral part of a brand.
Advertising companies that sponsor us would be a whole different thing. The advertisement would then use the sponsor's logo and other contents.
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If you think about Lazarus name and logos as a brand image, you must agree that all this must be updated to match the fashion.
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This is my contribution to this discussion (attached).
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After reading the whole discussion, including a possible change of the name of the whole project that has been smuggled in by some persons, I think that it will be best to leave everything as it is. An outmoded design is better than most of the suggestions (with the only exception of Graeme's logos that are excellent).
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If you think about Lazarus name and logos as a brand image, you must agree that all this must be updated to match the fashion.
typo, I am not sure if this is humor or if you are serious. In forum posts a hidden humor is often missed.
But no, we do not need to match the fashion!
Besides, it would be rather pathetic if a Pascal project tried to attract people by being as fashionable as possible.
There is one line missing from your latest contribution.
Instead on "Free Pascal Studio" it should be "Free Pascal Visual Studio".
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Visual Studio has that wonderful purple color.
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Brand graphics relate to identity and identification. Do you think that Lazarus should assume a barroque style?
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Brand graphics relate to identity and identification. Do you think that Lazarus should assume a barroque style?
Does it do that right now? Or does even the splash screen on its own do that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque
At the very best it *includes* a picture of a pillar that may be baroque. (I will not be the judge if indeed it is).
It also includes a picture of a cheetah, a paw and various text elements.
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And if it did: Why would that be a bad thing?
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Not bad at all, just curious.
See attached.
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Why trying to find a new font?
font is part of the identity.
So unless there was a really good reason, it should not be changed.
Actually that reason thing applies to more than the font....
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I agree.
If it is a symbol of something, maybe it should not be changed.
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Hello everyone,
Firstly i am sorry for broken english...
I searched in google images other ide's screens and i realized lazarus showing with "The rising of Lazarus" very holy place ;) yet.
Actually i am glad the undocked ide style and another reality is most people impressing with visual designs also technical people too.
Some reseacher says a person impressing in 7 seconds at the first meeting.
Maybe this reseach true maybe not, i am not sure because i used commondore 64 firstly and i loved my sprites i can change them move them etc,
after i used standart xt pc 8086 to x86.. now we are using pc 64bit :) and makeuped (painted) NT ( nowdays we called win 7, win 8 etc )
Maybe we should use some big buttons, very rounded icons, impressive spash screen all this requests,needs right but lazarus is freeware software who will design this parts?
For example my avatar is drawn by me but microsoft's design is designed by a company and they paid a lot of money i think.
Who will pay for this works in lazarus community ?
After lazarus project is becomes a commercial project.
I hope lazarus project wont to a commercial product because all good innovations and good ideas are growing up in free minded people.
Thanks all of you
Best wishes.
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Not bad at all, just curious.
See attached.
Sorry, but the font is simply awful.
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This is a baroque font.
Simply to say "this is ugly" does not seem very smart.
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This is a baroque font.
No, it is not baroque. It is at best a style that is by some people today regarded as baroque. Baroque is the form of Antiqua font that followed the Renaissance Antiqua. At typical example of baroque Antiqua is the New Baskerville font, see http://www.fontpalace.com/font-details/ITC+New+Baskerville+LT+Roman/ for an example.
By the way, the pillar that serves as a seat for the chetah is also not baroque. It is ionic style that was introduced by ancient greeks in the 6th century BC, see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionic_order.
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Your font is not baroque, this one is: http://www.fontsner.com/font/BaroqueTextJF-40575.html
Of course the ionic column ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionic_order ) comes from Delphi and it is OK for it. But is this OK for us?
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Your font is not baroque, this one is: http://www.fontsner.com/font/BaroqueTextJF-40575.html
The New Baskerville is Baroque Antiqua, the font that you cited isn't, even if this website claims that it is. It is Fraktur, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur for more examples. And see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Baskerville for more info on the Baskerville font.
EDIT: Additional and very interesting information on different font styles is to be found at http://helzdesign.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/5-different-serifs-and-how-to-distinguish-them/
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Baroque letters were made like this one:
http://www.wallquotes.com/Images/wallart/monogramart/baroquemonogram/baroquemonogramz.png
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And this is the form of real printings from the baroque era:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vivaldis_first_edition_of_Juditha_triumphnas.jpg
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Teatro_alla_moda.jpg
They are title pages from works of Antonio Vivaldi (1678 to 1741), one of the most famous italian composers of the baroque epoch.
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typo, where did you suddenly get the Baroque ideas?
There is nothing Baroque in the current Lazarus images. Maybe you don't know much of history. Dunno.
Anyway, Lazarus does not need your images because it already has good ones. I think it has been said clearly.
You can freely modify your local copy of Lazarus. You can even fork the whole project if you want.
You can make a picture collection in a server somewhere and provide a link, but please don't copy them all here.
Do you also think we should imitate Microsoft in the graphics? How much they pay you?
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There is nothing Baroque in the current Lazarus images.
You are right, we don't need a Baroque style and actually we don't need this debate.
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Sorry, I thought this was a debate.
I know enough of history.
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Sorry, I thought this was a debate.
Yes, it was a debate but I was wondering where Baroque suddenly popped to your mind.
The Greek pillar was the only old figure and it is like 2000 years older than Baroque.
Juha
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So you are re-opening the discussion about baroque? Or simply informing the official opinion about the matter?
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So you are re-opening the discussion about baroque? Or simply informing the official opinion about the matter?
I don't know, I think I should be sleeping. Tomorrow I should finally do some Lazarus coding again.
About the images, the "official" opinion seems to be that there is no need for changing them.
This whole thing bursted from the web design project. I think it is natural that new people want to renew EVERYTHING, but it is not always good. Later comes understanding about why things were done the way they are.
There are some truly neglected parts in Lazarus but the splash-screen is not one of them.
On the other hand we are very lucky to have many graphically talented people around this project.
How to channel that talent and energy, I don't know. At least it must be something else than new splash-screens.
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Splash screens are simply an alibi. Personally, I like this one:
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My opinion is that Lazarus could have a lot of logos, even a lot of names, or it could change often, but the soul of the project would not change.
Appearance is important, but the truth is that it is not our main matter, so it could change at every week in order to be updated or match the taste of some sponsor, for instance.
Lazarus could have a lot of faces to the user, he/she could choose it. The community could have fun creating faces to Lazarus.
like the google logo(of sorts) at the top of its homepage which changes everyday?
No. The appearance is part of a brand which is important even if the brand is not very well known due to advertising and other issues. Logos and images are an integral part of a brand.
Advertising companies that sponsor us would be a whole different thing. The advertisement would then use the sponsor's logo and other contents.
Wouldn't that appear as some kind of a nag screen?
I don't know, I think I should be sleeping. Tomorrow I should finally do some Lazarus coding again.
About the images, the "official" opinion seems to be that there is no need for changing them.
This whole thing bursted from the web design project. I think it is natural that new people want to renew EVERYTHING, but it is not always good. Later comes understanding about why things were done the way they are.
There are some truly neglected parts in Lazarus but the splash-screen is not one of them.
On the other hand we are very lucky to have many graphically talented people around this project.
How to channel that talent and energy, I don't know. At least it must be something else than new splash-screens.
I don't think that any changes in the splash screen is necessary or top priority. My post #25 where I thought that simply changing the png file would do the trick was wrong.
According to the README.TXT file
Creating a lazarus resource can easily be done by the lazres program.
If you have not yet compiled lazres, go to the tools directory and type make.
1. bookmark.lrs
cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres bookmark.lrs sourceeditor/*.png
2. components_images.lrs
cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres components_images.lrs @components_images_list.txt
3. laz_images.lrs
cd <lazarusdir>/images/
../tools/lazres laz_images.lrs @laz_images_list.txt
rm ../main.ppu
4. splash.lrs
cd <lazarusdir>/images
./tools/lazres splash_logo.lrs splash_logo.png
...
So maybe those who are interested in changing the splash screen can do it themselves. Maybe a separate thread for this purpose is better.
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just a few things I have acquired working with various art studios to keep in mind when talking about logos.
1) a logo can be anything but it is better to have some kind of vectorial minimalistic design that portrays the essence than a full picture.
2) a logo must unique and easily recognizable.
3) colors should not be part of the logo it self
those rules create dynamic and long lasting logos with the ability to adapt easily to new trends.
Personally I hate the running cheetah as a logo it is ok on a web page to show the idea behind the selection but a more dynamic one must be chosen the foot print is a good example the problem with it is that it does not portray the essence with out the cheetah, the cheetah face in a gear is closer to a true logo, as for the Greek pillar its nothing more than a copycat from delphi and although I understand that there should be a connection between the two, the logo is not the place to make such a connection.
To make things clear what I am talking about take a look on the postgreSQL logo. That is a logo that can be used everywhere not only on a web site.
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1) a logo can be anything but it is better to have some kind of vectorial minimalistic design that portrays the essence than a full picture.
2) a logo must unique and easily recognizable.
3) colors should not be part of the logo it self
those rules create dynamic and long lasting logos with the ability to adapt easily to new trends.
Yes you are right.
The splash-screen pic looks good (IMO) and has nice color but it is not a logo.
Now we don't have one single established logo. The paw, foot print, is used in many places. I think it would be a simple enough shape for an official logo.
Still, I don't see any big problems with the current situation. The pics are established and recognized by people, even if they are not "logos".
A worse thing would happen if everything old was thrown away, as some people were planning to do.
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Creating a new identity for Lazarus is tricky business.
Let's take the existing tokens separately.
The cheetah and the paw can apply to : animal care, animal shelter, safari trips.
The Greek column can apply to : history, architecture.
The cog can apply to: engineering.
The Lazarus name has religious and metaphorical meaning.
Putting those together, the splash screen created a now known association, by telling a story.
I'm not sure this story can be easily expressed by a minimalistic design.
The cheetah in a cog, visually, doesn't have what it takes. The same goes for the paw in a circle.
Cheetah on a pole, the word Lazarus with the red band bellow, these don't fit the description either.
So, the related logo, as it is the case with Windows, Apple, Android, Ruby, it's out of the question.
What's left is searching for an abstract and catchy design, the same as Mac (faces), Linux, PostgreSQL.
But this probably means a rupture created in the minds of those already committed to using Lazarus.
And it also means a great deal of design work and it would take a high level of community agreement upon the new symbols.
The task isn't easy, but, it seems that Lazarus is already on the path on searching a stronger brand. All it's left is the patience and the hard work. 8-)
--
Mitică
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Creating a new identity for Lazarus is tricky business.
You are aware, that so far none of the developpers want a new logo or splash screen.
And that the argument of modern/trendy/etc has not made a difference to it.
Further more attributes like modern/trendy are usually set by advertisement (like white earplugs for mp3 -- who would have thought of white before).
Only in rare cases something catches on as trend without the need of a campeicn.
Since we can not pay a campeicn ourself, we have 3 options:
- leave it
- copy / lean-on somebody else's design (IMHO not good)
- create a random NOT YET trendy image, and hope to win the lottery
Let's take the existing tokens separately.
The cheetah and the paw can apply to : animal care, animal shelter, safari trips.
The Greek column can apply to : history, architecture.
The cog can apply to: engineering.
The Lazarus name has religious and metaphorical meaning.
Putting those together, the splash screen created a now known association, by telling a story.
Strange, I never read any story into the splash screen.
I also have in most cases other associations entirely.
e.g. in the cheetah I see a dominant element (top of the food chain / king (despite that word is usually associated to lion) of it's environment.
Cheetah on TOP of a column: amplifies this / deity like
Therefore the splash screen immediately gave me the appearance of a product that is a major player.
But, yes I see that people con read different stories into a symbol. The old window flag, with 4 colors somehow reminded me of a circus (not sure why). Tell that to microsoft, they will be exited (the new one 4 color-less panels, associates tiles in a bath room...
I never really read anything into the name (it was just a name) until I read the history.
In todays world many names are NOT associating the product to the original meaning of the word (I never thought to do my grocery shopping in an apple store), And with other names there is a meaning, but you need to read up, to get it. (eg they are abbreviations like BMW and not everyone knows the full meaning)
I'm not sure this story can be easily expressed by a minimalistic design.
The cheetah in a cog, visually, doesn't have what it takes. The same goes for the paw in a circle.
Cheetah on a pole, the word Lazarus with the red band bellow, these don't fit the description either.
So, the related logo, as it is the case with Windows, Apple, Android, Ruby, it's out of the question.
How do an
- apple
- penguin
- flag with 4 colors (then circle with 4 colors, now 4 panels (wtindows)
associate with an operating system at all?
They are random symbols, later associated to a product
Our current logos and images are not one bit less.
What's left is searching for an abstract and catchy design, the same as Mac (faces), Linux, PostgreSQL.
The paw and coq are exactly that
The task isn't easy, but, it seems that Lazarus is already on the path on searching a stronger brand. All it's left is the patience and the hard work. 8-)
Again, before you go on a search: Convince those who will decide, that it is needed.
Otherwise you can find whatever you want, it will not do any good.
I am NOT convinced.
I have not seen any one else of the developer team indicating that they are.
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What may need to be done, is to collect the CURRENT identity, document it, and ensures it is always applied.
Like ensure, we use the same (the CURRENTLY used one) font for the word lazarus in all places.
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The Lazarus name has religious and metaphorical meaning.
...
So, the related logo, as it is the case with Windows, Apple, Android, Ruby, it's out of the question.
I once suggested in a developer meeting to use a zombie Lazarus, wrapped in clothes, just after Jesus had resurrected him.
He was smelling already but the smell cannot be carried in a logo unfortunately.
Obviously I was not serious. :)
The religious associations are a sensitive topic. Some people have asked already here about possible religious background.
I may already be on a "thin ice" by even writing this kind of stuff. I find these associations amusing but I know there are people how take biblical stories seriously and would be offended.
Trademarks like Apple, Android and Ruby carry no information of the actual project either. Apple, is it a fruit company?
However they have an obvious logo. A logo for "Apple" is an apple.
The situation for Lazarus identity is indeed more difficult. There is no obvious logo.
Fortunately, the greatest art always comes from combining controversial things in new mind-blowing ways.
I believe at some day somebody will get an "eureka" and create a brilliant combination of the elements.
Until then let's not change anything because the current logos and pictures are rather good and well established.
This thread was started with an idea of changing everything only because we must "follow the fashion" and we must imitate Microsoft.
Clearly such people are not qualified to create identity for Lazarus.
Juha
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Sorry my english...
nsunny:
Do you think that the current Lazarus graphics (in the website, setup image, splash screen or in any other form) should be updated?
Yes, but not necessary everything.
nsunny:
Do you think that modern images / graphics / design (cosmetic changes) should be adapted to make it feel more up to date?
Yes.
nsunny:
Do you think that new graphics could interest more users to use Lazarus?
Yes.
BigChimp:
In the absence of professional designers, we have to make do with what we have, I think.
Perfect.
JuhaManninen:
Now the fact is that nsunny's page design is visually rather poor...
I agree.
Martin_fr
So what then makes the current splash screen "not modern"?
Not easy to explain: Too many graphic information. Unecessary detailed parts, more than one font size, color... Redundant infomation: cheetah and cheetah's footprint.
marcov
Specially, since contrary to companies like Borland/Embacadero and Microsoft, we don't compete against our own old versions...
Ok. Lazarus competes with itself at current version while there are too many "symbol charge" spread in different forms in website, logo, IDE, etc.
The point is: How can I distinguish one brand among many others, from other IDEs at least?
Microsoft is not a good reference to this point of view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k
:-)
Martin_fr:
...An identity change is usally required when something is wrong with the old identity.
You're wright
itmitica:
...The task isn't easy, but, it seems that Lazarus is already on the path on searching a stronger brand.
You're wright too.
I'm not an expert, but my 2 cents:
Accept it or not: we make choices in terms of "peripheral features".
When our basic needs are met, we make choices for what is aesthetic.
Our shoes, our clothes, our food, our car, etc...
When you buy something, the impression that account involves all the senses affected. What we get is, beyond the object itself, everything about. Since the quality of the string that ties the package, the smell, the texture, the sound, the packaging itself, the group that uses the same product - you're in it now - ie a complete aesthetic experience.
I do not know how they are beer commercials in other countries, but here, the least that can be explained is the flavor of the beer. The peripheral information is more important: happiness, people, party, women, ah, ok, there's beer too. "Havaianas" sandals also. Actually, a lot of advertising for various products / services, what sells is the peripheral information. Could replace the product, even of different types, and keep the same advertisement.
*It's what works*. It's not a personal point of view.
Somehow, Lazarus is a product, and sins in this aspect.
Well...
Rewritting the valuable BigChimp post:
"In the absence of professional designers, we have to make do with what we have, I think."
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When a 16 years old boy opens Lazarus IDE for the first time (girls are rare on computer programming), he feels something about us.
Is the current message the right one?
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Martin_fr
So what then makes the current splash screen "not modern"?
Not easy to explain: Too many graphic information. Unecessary detailed parts, more than one font size, color... Redundant infomation: cheetah and cheetah's footprint.
Hum, that topic is very sensible i see...
I just want to ask something : what is the Lazarus logo ?
The cheetah ?
The Greek column ?
The footprint ?
The combination of cheetah + column + footprint ?
PS : I do not want to hurt the actual logo designer, i only want to know...
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When a 16 years old boy opens Lazarus IDE for the first time (girls are rare on computer programming), he feels something about us.
Is the current message the right one?
As I said, the message I get when I see the windows vista splash logo (that 4 color thing) is that the circus is in town.
You can't find a single logo, that says the same to everyone.
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No smiley in this message. I am serious
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Martin_fr
So what then makes the current splash screen "not modern"?
Not easy to explain: Too many graphic information. Unecessary detailed parts, more than one font size, color... Redundant infomation: cheetah and cheetah's footprint.
Hum, that topic is very sensible i see...
I just want to ask something : what is the Lazarus logo ?
There is actually a bit of a point. The application icon was changed a few years back (to the current gear). IIRC the paw was introduced around that time too.
The paw obviously has a connection to the cheetah.
current icon: gear (cheetah head on Mac afaik)
current main logo: (I would say) claw
There a a variety of cheetah images, that are being kept (and that to my knowledge the developer team likes to keep)
- cheetah on column in splash (there is a variation, with a none sitting cheetah, too)
- running cheetah on web page
I might have missed something
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the message I get when I see the windows vista splash logo (that 4 color thing) is that the circus is in town.
And what do you feel about this image?
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I agree with Taaz post:
1) a logo can be anything but it is better to have some kind of vectorial minimalistic design that portrays the essence than a full picture.
2) a logo must unique and easily recognizable.
3) colors should not be part of the logo it self.
Your sugestion has 3 font types/sizes (too many "information") and the cheetah picture too. Is a detailed picture, too many "information".
The lazarus icon is the best choice to a splash screen, or an unified trademark in my opinion.
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The lazarus icon is the best choice to a splash screen
I think that the real revolution would be to change the shape of the splash screen.
Lazarus have the maravelous function :
AControl.SetShape(ABitmap);
With that function, you can give a custom shape to the splash screen.
And a gear-like shape with the actual Lazarus icon would be perfect.
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When a 16 years old boy opens Lazarus IDE for the first time (girls are rare on computer programming), he feels something about us.
Is the current message the right one?
My children are 15, 13 and 10 years old.
Of course, they know the Lazarus IDE and they also know the person Lazarus from the new testament due to a christian background, but they never messed up the two meanings of the word. They love to create great things with the IDE and they like the cheetah logo in its different forms. They are even so far that they say that they want to have a real cheetah as a pet and call it Lazarus.
This is the effect of our design and branding on the youngest users. It could be worse.
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I don't intend to imitate Microsoft, but the Nature which renews the world at every generation.
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I don't intend to imitate Microsoft, but the Nature which renews the world at every generation.
But nature also stays true to itself. Today's genetic machinery (the "software" infrastructure of life) is the same that it was millions of years ago.
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If this infrastructure would not change, our species could not exist anymore.
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If this infrastructure would not change, our species could not exist anymore.
No, the infrastructure (genetic code, mechanisms of transcription, translation and intronic control of gene activity) is the same since the time of precambrium (with a few exceptions). What changes, of course, is the sequence and arrangement of the genes (if you want to say so: the programs that are encoded in the genetic code)
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What does not change does not remain.
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What does not change does not remain.
Typo, you are the one i follow...
Hum, back to basic.
I propose to change the shape of the splash screen form, using function AControl.SetShape(ABitmap).
The shape of the splash-screen would be something like that :
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What does not change does not remain.
This cites Heraclitus of Ephesus, a wise man. It applies to much, but not to everything.
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The shape of the splash-screen would be something like that :
var
hRegion: HRGN;
begin
hRegion := BitmapToRegion((Image1.Picture.Bitmap.Handle), clWhite);
SetWindowRgn(form1.Handle, hRegion, True);
end;
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I propose to change the shape of the splash screen form, using function AControl.SetShape(ABitmap).
I think the clear message has been that it will not be changed. Besides your pic is a logo, not a splash screen. The splash screen has enough space to show a detailed picture. Now you want to replace the beautiful picture with a simple logo which is ugly and boring when enlarged so much. As a small logo it is OK.
What is happening now? The splash screen has become an issue bigger than life.
Please remember that nobody has asked to replace the splash screen because there already is a good one. This whole thread was started by a person who lost his common sense of relativity when designing the web page and getting too much conflicting info.
People are wasting time for this while there are parts in Lazarus that would truly need improvement.
Partly this is about leaving a "piss mark" to the project, like dogs do when they come to a new place.
The splash screen is the first thing anybody sees. A new person wanting to contribute something thinks:
"Oh, there are 1.5 million LOC. It is too difficult for me but at least I want to leave my piss mark to the project's splash screen.
I know it is an ugly piss mark but it is my piss mark!".
@typo: why you waste your energy for this childish piss marking?
We made team work earlier for a StringList derivative, remember.
Your original design was truly from arse but finally we managed to make the TDictionaryStringList.
Now, it is time for you to dive into Lazarus code and do something useful.
One more thing: let's take care that nsunny does not loose his mental health during this process.
He is young. He wants to succeed in what he does. He is not used to this direct criticism. He interprets it as political or cultural thing.
That is why I hope to get help from others to finish the visual issues in the web page.
Juha
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I am just answering the question.
I do not intend to prohibit him from discussing it.
While he is not offensive, his opinion is worth of listening.
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Well, I think I crossed the line of good taste with my last post. It happens more easily in virtual communication that in a live one.
I even got a PM about it.
Anybody who feels offended please let me know and I will apologise in a personal message.
I should have used different wording at least.
Juha
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Even Microsoft knows that innovation comes from motivated people.
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Now you want to replace the beautiful picture with a simple logo which is ugly and boring when enlarged so much
JuhaManninen, cool man, we are in the same ship and nobody wants to sink.
I do not want to replace the picture, i propose to change the shape of the splash form, with something else than a traditional rectangle.
And the shape of the logo was a example.
Dont be afraid about propositions and wishes, nobody wants to impose you anything.
I think the clear message has been that it will not be changed
I hope that you are joking or maybe everything what opposite to your thinking are bad.
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I think the clear message has been that it will not be changed
I hope that you are joking or maybe everything what opposite to your thinking are bad.
Well has any of the developers spoken in favour for that change yet?
Some people thought (or still think) it should be done. In the beginning of this thread they brought forward the reasons and ideas they had.
All I can say is, that so far it has not convinced any of those who will have to make the decision.
Also the more recent posts have not actually added any content to the thread. They were mostly a repeat of previous posts, and some images of rather questionable quality. (The idea of changing the form is not adding anything either, so long as no reason is acknowledged to actually do something at all).
At this point you can yourself calculate the odds, what a continuation of this thread will bring.
--
And to be clear: I read the beginning of this thread with an open mind. I accept that people see different things in the same logo. But that alone can not be reason enough, as it applies to every logo, including any new one.
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All I can say is, that so far it has not convinced any of those who will have to make the decision.
That is exactly the point who disturbs me.
Who will have to make the decision ?
Who are the boss in the Lazarus project ?
I do not like that secret.
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All I can say is, that so far it has not convinced any of those who will have to make the decision.
That is exactly the point who disturbs me.
Who will have to make the decision ?
Who are the boss in the Lazarus project ?
I do not like that secret.
No secrets there: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Developer_pages
(also http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/History )
Not all people listed are currently active.
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And next to the persons on the developers list we are all a bit decision maker. The developers do listen to what users want or need. And although Juha may have used an unfortunate choice of words I fully agree with him and say: "Can we now please spend all our energy and time on making Lazarus/FreePascal better and stop wasting time a something as unimportant as style?"
I know lots of products that look 100 times as good as Lazarus but don't perform as expected, so I settle for a less stylish product that lives up to the users expectations as far as programming possiblities and ease of use are concerned.
Like Martin already said I haven't seen any Lazarus users expressing the need for a new style, so let us please move on.
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Can we now please spend all our energy and time on making Lazarus/FreePascal better and stop wasting time a something as unimportant as style?
I spent lot of energy and time on making Lazarus/FreePascal better, my friend.
And speaking one afternoon about style of a project that takes a big part of my brain for years, sorry, but i think it is important too.
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The current splash screen is much better than every draft that was suggested in this thread. I would therefore plead to keep the current version as it is (at least for the present).
Apart from that there are more than 2000 unresolved bugs at http://bugs.freepascal.org, many of them are more important than a splash screen.
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The current splash screen is much better than every draft that was suggested in this thread
Ok, Big Chief, You are the One who knows what is good/bad.
I was thinking that Lazarus was a Open project.
It seems that with the time, it becomes a project very "bourgeois" who can not " se remettre en question ".
I let you use your hated Google Translator to translate it.
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I spent lot of energy and time on making Lazarus/FreePascal better, my friend.
And there are hundreds of volunteers like you, who help, and who deserve thanks.
The link I posted has the core developers.
You will also find in the Lazarus about screen (or somewhere in the install dir) a huge list of contributors. (mainly those that contributed code/ bugfixes and similar).
On top of that there are people helping others on the forum, or mail list, reporting and helping to reproduce bugs, or spreading the word.
All very important things. None of them is ignored.
I was thinking that Lazarus was a Open project.
It seems that with the time, it becomes a project very "bourgeois" who can not " se remettre en question ".
I let you use your hated Google Translator to translate it.
"ability to question itself / reflect on itself"
Believe me we do.
But there are points when a decision must be made. Sometimes ideas/requests will lead to something, sometime the will not.
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Sometimes ideas/requests will lead to something, sometime the will not.
Every time NO ideas/requests will lead to nothing.
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It seems that with the time, it becomes a project very "bourgeois" who can not " se remettre en question ".
I let you use your hated Google Translator to translate it.
Merci, vous êtes bien aimable.
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Here is my last proposition. After that, i gonna fix some Lazarus bugs. :-X
Because this huge passion for the splash screen, i propose to change the splash screen for each new version of Lazarus.
It could be a kind of poll / voting for the new splash screen...
The advantage is, when loading Lazarus, you can directly recognize what version is loaded.
Bye, i have to code now because I have lost a lot of time with that topic. ;)
EDIT : Of course the actual splash-screen gonna be in the poll.
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Juha, all of us want to leave our "mark" in this world., this is not exactly a problem.
Making open source software is a good way of doing that.
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And next to the persons on the developers list we are all a bit decision maker. The developers do listen to what users want or need. And although Juha may have used an unfortunate choice of words I fully agree with him and say: "Can we now please spend all our energy and time on making Lazarus/FreePascal better and stop wasting time a something as unimportant as style?"
I know lots of products that look 100 times as good as Lazarus but don't perform as expected, so I settle for a less stylish product that lives up to the users expectations as far as programming possiblities and ease of use are concerned.
Like Martin already said I haven't seen any Lazarus users expressing the need for a new style, so let us please move on.
The current splash screen is much better than every draft that was suggested in this thread. I would therefore plead to keep the current version as it is (at least for the present).
Apart from that there are more than 2000 unresolved bugs at http://bugs.freepascal.org, many of them are more important than a splash screen.
The splash screen and other cosmetic changes is indeed of lesser importance and takes a backseat to main programming features. However, it's modification should not be totally wiped under the rug. Why not create another thread for its discussion and maybe those who are interested and have the graphic skills can come up with something worth considering? An option would be some minor recoding so that the splash screen can be easily user-customized.
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Juha, all of us want to leave our "mark" in this world., this is not exactly a problem.
Making open source software is a good way of doing that.
Indeed, but there are 2 kinds of marks you can leave.
One kind is obtained by working hard for many years to create true substance.
Another kind comes by spraying your "marks" around.
I put it another way: Changing the project's splash screen and the outside image is a privilege of the people who have created substance for the project. It is not a "normal" contribution.
The more a person has created substance the more voting power he has for such things.
Succesful open source projects are not democratic. Lazarus surely is not democratic.
Because there is confusion of such a fundamental fact, I recommend a book written by a developer of Subversion project:
http://producingoss.com/en/producingoss.pdf
"Chapter 1. Introduction" starts with: Most free software projects fail.
... and so it is.
Now if just anybody here could vote for important decisions of the project, developers would lose interest very quickly and the project would die.
Still, people who have contributed very little, or nothing, feel they are qualified to change the whole outside image of the project!
Another analogy: somebody has built a house and a yard. It is his territory. You don't go and spray your "marks" there because you respect the territory of others. Lazarus project is a territory of people who made it. Why don't you respect it?
Then, how to get the voting power? It is easy to answer:
You must create or improve a substantial feature in Lazarus and maintain it for many years. You will fix hundreds of bugs while doing it. You must make small decisions all the time for code's structure and feature requests coming from others.
You notice how your other duties suffer because you used so much time for this development. You question your sanity every day for doing it for free.
Once you have done that for some years then you are qualified to spray your "marks". Until then, please go spray them somewhere else.
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I disagree in every single point that has been made.
From personal experience I can sat that a good program is not a good graphics designer and most good graphics designers are not programmers at all.
This kind of mentality especially for trivial matters like the splash screen is a stop gap for the community building process. Instead you should consider it as an excuse to raise community interest. A simple contest which you will call people to design their own splash screens and invite users to vote on what they think would be a more positive way to handle this situation.
No one said that the programmers should waist their time in splash screens about boxes or anything else they see as a waist. a community needs all those things though including trendy design and eye candy to attract more people especially younger people.
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From personal experience I can sat that a good program is not a good graphics designer and most good graphics designers are not programmers at all.
True, that is a good point.
However this "competition" for creating a new splash screen is out of proportions with anything else now.
It is a psychological thing. The splash screen shows first when you open Lazarus. It is like the small jaguar statue in front of Jaguar cars or the star in Mercedes. It is like a trophy. Every newbie gets a primitive reaction: "Hey, I want my picture there".
In reality the splash screen is not important for people who actually use Lazarus. It may be open the whole day but you see a splash screen only for 2 secs.
I personally like the current pic and I don't want a new one. It should be made configurable. Martin suggested to have only a cmd line switch, but IMO it could be stored in local config, too.
People will make so many pics that they all cannot be included in Lazarus distribution. They must be downloaded from net. It is all doable, just somebody provide a patch and I will look at it.
To get perspective, please remember where this discussion started. I wanted to have a new web main page made as a community project. I thought I was doing a good thing.
Then "a moped escaped" from the new page author's hands and he wanted to throw away everything that was created during 12 years of development. It was not really part of the deal.
The developers who spent thousands and thousands of hours making Lazarus tick, were suddenly evil people who wanted to prevent progress.
Much of the criticism came from people who have not made a single contribution themselves.
This proves how difficult open source development is when the project grows. I should have organized things much better.
I think I should have sticked to the original plan with a FreeBSD VM.
A clear contract should have been made with the author. What is desired, what is not desired, and so on.
One more lesson learned.
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New splash for Lazarus: http://imagebin.org/253742
With a spelling mistake... :) "Free Pascal" is two words - a common error on the internet.
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A simple contest which you will call people to design their own splash screens and invite users to vote on what they think would be a more positive way to handle this situation.
I agree.
Anyway, the "clinging" about the splash screen was a surprise for me. But conservatism about the project is good.
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You are absolutely right that the current conversation is out of scope for the task at hand and I appreciate all the effort put in to it. I am not bushing the splash screen or anything like that don't get me wrong that was an example only. I simply expressed my ideas for a more community driven approach on trivial matters that will minimize the time spend from the coordinators of the project raising cooperation spirit in the community at the same time, that contradicts your final statement of "find an author and be done with it".
In any way nsunny has done a good job, although a bit to rich on colors for my liking is very well balanced.
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I recommend the brand management. I think it involves standardized colors, logos, slogans, polls, what each symbol means, what message you want to convey to users, etc, in a documented file. So when someone try change something about this, first, he (she) will read "the" standard documented file about this, and try to maintain consistency.
Perhaps this document already exists.
I think the beginning of the post was about it, right?
Need change? My opinion is yes.
But wait, it's just an opinion. No offense or "pee" here or there.
For me, still the BigChimp post is valuable:
"In the absence of professional designers, we have to make do with what we have, I think."
I'm not a professional designer. Only an user, or consumer.
And when BigChimp said "we", I don't feel in. I'm new here.
I don't feel a so good programmer to correct errors in Lazarus yet (well i bought the Lazarus book).
You can certainly ignore the ideas. These are only ideas. Enjoy it deems useful. It's a way to help them. The forum is for this too, isn't?
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I have seen the splash screen at least a thousand times, but have never really looked at it until now. After reading some of the comments on this page, I went back and opened it up again to try to get an understanding of all the dissent here. Maybe I am reading more into it than there is - its' hard to tell with the written word.
Anyway, after staring at it a few moments, I think that maybe it does need a renovation. I really feel the cheetah should be facing to the right (and moved to the left of the panel) - as looking forward to the future (in my left-to-right world); or towards the dawning of a new day for such an outstanding project. Otherwise, leave it be.
My two cents...
regards,
geno
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actions speak louder than words. if you think lazarus need new 'modern' splash screen, then start make new one. but make it the good one, better than the old one. if your new splash screen better than the old one i think no reason to not make it official splash screen.
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irfanbagus,
It's no so simple. This project has coordinators who decides what will be changed. "Better than" in this topic is relative. He will need to proof and convince that the new is better than the old. Someone which solid background in design can do good changes, but its not enough. The passion of the coordinators of the project created a resistance to changes in visual, if not already started or created by leaders. This is normal. Any creation will be just a suggestion. Coordinators may approve or not, regardless of being "better" or "worse". They are experts in programming. I can not say about visual design. But they are the coordinators.
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...
Anyway, after staring at it a few moments, I think that maybe it does need a renovation. I really feel the cheetah should be facing to the right (and moved to the left of the panel) - as looking forward to the future (in my left-to-right world); or towards the dawning of a new day for such an outstanding project. Otherwise, leave it be.
My two cents...
regards,
geno
LOL. In my case I noticed it immediately. The cheetah facing left is OK I guess(tho I still prefer to see it facing the viewer's right). But for it to be sitting on the rightmost edge of the "logo screen"(or whatever it's called) then face left does not look OK. I was tempted to comment on it but then I recalled the mustang logo. If I remember correctly, people inside ford had commented that the mustang should be running or facing the right because from a spectator's viewpoint that is the race horse is seen.
...
BTW, I just did some googling and read that "Ford tinkers with Mustang design as 50th year approaches".
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/03/mustanganniversarylogo.jpg
However it is simply a silhouette of the pony with the text 50 years under it. Looks like a simple change but I am sure that hundreds of expert hours were spent on deciding on the original logo and this new one
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irfanbagus,
It's no so simple. This project has coordinators who decides what will be changed. "Better than" in this topic is relative. He will need to proof and convince that the new is better than the old. Someone which solid background in design can do good changes, but its not enough. The passion of the coordinators of the project created a resistance to changes in visual, if not already started or created by leaders. This is normal. Any creation will be just a suggestion. Coordinators may approve or not, regardless of being "better" or "worse". They are experts in programming. I can not say about visual design. But they are the coordinators.
it is not simple because you make it over-complicated. for open source project like lazarus, if you have an idea then you must convince core developers if your idea is good, not by words but by works. most of the time core developers too busy doing their job to develop and maintain the project, and no resource to make implementation of your idea. especially if your idea have low urgency, like change splash screen.
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Hi irfanbagus,
To change splash screen was not my idea. I was only answering the 3 questions from beginning of this topic and putting "my 2 cents" to make things more professional. I don't care about urgency. Was only suggestion (brand management and not changing splash screen).
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Late, but, have a look at this for a splash screen (AI generated):
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Yeah, or this one
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Looks my real cat: a Russian blue. Not nasty enough ;D
[edit] but yours is now my desktop background!
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Those pictures look scary :o
I know I’m a bit late in responding but I don’t want the appearance of Lazarus changed at all, I like it as it is..
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Those pictures look scary :o
They should be scary...
I'd like to see Thaddy's "mean genie" coming out of an "Aladdin's lamp" like Fibonacci's... resting on an slightly inclined plane with the words (like the moving star wars text) ...
I'll grant you three wishes....
Lazarus, FPC and Prosperity...
live long and code... :)
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Where did the genie theme come from ? The missing parts of the animals are rather disconcerting.
Also I saw your post in other thread earlier.. I never knew you know Spanish.. :)
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Also I saw your post in other thread earlier.. I never knew you know Spanish.. :)
When I was quite a bit younger I used to be native level fluent in 4 languages... now, only 3... going backwards as I get older...
That said, I'm only fluent in "computer-speak" in English... I learned everything about computers in English, therefore my computer vocabulary in other languages is extremely limited and I find it difficult to express computer concepts in the other languages I speak.
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I’m curious what other languages you know .. if you wish to share :)
Also has anyone ever told you that your profile picture looks like a woman from the 1920’s wearing a cloth cap ?
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I’m curious what other languages you know .. if you wish to share :)
Also has anyone ever told you that your profile picture looks like a woman from the 1920’s wearing a cloth cap ?
Sure... French, Spanish, Portuguese (the one I've mostly forgotten) and, last but not least, English. The first two are a simple consequence of the fact that my parents were native level bilingual in French and Spanish.
Your comment about my profile picture reflects my being rather graphically un-talented, a fact that I've fortunately always been keenly aware of and, as a result, never tried making a living in any area that required graphical talent (like most people... I like to eat at least once a day.)
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I enjoy your profile picture. It’s like a hidden picture. Can anyone else see it?
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Where did the genie theme come from ?
from a very old avator of mine. author not Banksy but Thaddy....