Lazarus
Miscellaneous => Suggestions => Topic started by: Fred vS on November 17, 2012, 02:33:07 am
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It is a message for the High Authorities of the Pascal Academy.
I have a great respect for your language, but would it not time to take it completely ? Be brave and waive these legacies competitors.
Please, forget:
^variable
pointer^
@variable
(All are terrorizing our children)
and adopt:
DeRefPtr(variable)
RefPtr(pointer)
PtrtoVal(variable)
(Who are much more "Pascally").
Here example of "mixed" Official Pascal code (given by Mr Blaazen)
VAR W : Word;
P : ^Word;
BEGIN
W:=10;
P:=@W;
WriteLn(P^);
W:=30;
WriteLn(P^);
P^:=80;
WriteLn(W);
END.
and here the same code in "real" Pascal mood :
DeRefPtr(var) ----> ^var;
RefPtr(ptr) ----> ptr^ ;
PtrtoVal(var) ----> @var ;
VAR W : Word;
P : DeRefPtr(Word);
BEGIN
W:=10;
P:=PtrtoVal(W);
WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
W:=30;
WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
RefPtr(P):=80;
WriteLn(W);
END.
Your obedient servant.
Fred vS
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Read this (http://pascal-central.com/docs/pascal1973.pdf), Niklaus Wirth never invented Pascal with caret as the pointer dereference operator, it's our current keyboard that doesn't have the required symbol. And for you, symbolphobians, please stop doing something silly regarding the symbol. You have triangles everywhere: boomerang, underwear, arrows, etc. all have nothing to do with terrorism.
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It is not a literal terrorism as in bobs and suicide bombers it was more like "terror from beyond" "nightmare on elm street" or "chainsaw" type of thing.
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@ Leleldumbo
Read this,
Very clear, maybe the clearest explanation of Pascal concept i have read.
This man is genius.
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The symbol ^ is fine, but i think i have to agree with Delphi's philosophy with it. When i have pointer to a class or record variable, i shouldn't need to use:
recordVarPtr^.Property but just recordVarPtr.Property
Because there is no other possible outcome from it than writing it with just dot. All i can see is that it makes it clear that we are dealing with pointed value. Pointer itself is just a memory address, there's no mistaking the dot usage for meaning the value only.
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The symbol ^ is fine, but i think i have to agree with Delphi's philosophy with it. When i have pointer to a class or record variable, i shouldn't need to use:
recordVarPtr^.Property but just recordVarPtr.Property
Delphi and TP already do that, so does their corresponding compatibility mode in Free Pascal (but AFAIK only if they're accessed as parameters).
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Hi,
this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them. This is because this symbol not usually used in French only for some words like être (to be in English).
regards
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this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them
Press ^ space...
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this symbol is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY and it's a French layout, to type the ^ I have to press it twice which produce ^^ and the I delete one of them
Press ^ space...
Thanks :)
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is annoying. to me my keyboard is AZERTY
Mine too :-X.
By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value @variable (who, for me, is property of internet) with something like PtrtoVal(variable).
PS: I do not have absolutely nothing against symbols, it is just that, for me, using that kind of symbol is more in the "C" mood than in Pascal.
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By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value @ ...
You cannot replace ^ with @ .
Example:
VAR W : Word;
P : ^Word;
BEGIN
W:=10;
P:=@W;
WriteLn(P^);
W:=30;
WriteLn(P^);
P^:=80;
WriteLn(W);
END.
Example is taken from here: http://www.friends-of-fpc.org/articles/1040517/b/ (http://www.friends-of-fpc.org/articles/1040517/b/)
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By the way, i will not be against to change the symbol to point to a value @variable (who, for me, is property of internet) with something like PtrtoVal(variable).
@ is already an "address of" operator, which is read naturally: @ is read "at", so @somevar reads "at somevar" which means the address of somevar. beautifully chosen, IMO.
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@ Blaazen
DeRefPtr(var) := ^var;
RefPtr(ptr) := ptr^ ;
PtrtoVal(var) := @var ;
VAR W : Word;
P : DeRefPtr(Word);
BEGIN
W:=10;
P:=PtrtoVal(W);
WriteLn( RefPtr(P));
W:=30;
WriteLn(RefPtr(P));
RefPtr(P):=80;
WriteLn(W);
END.
PS : It is for the game, im happy with the existing convention, it is only a idea in the air...
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PS 2 @ Blaazen.
It seams that the comprehension of that symbols are difficult to interpret not only by humans.
All the translator from C to Pascal or Pascal to C that i have tested have problems with negotiation with this symbols while translation...
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You can tell a person is integrated into a programming language when he starts making suggestion about how it should be changed.
You can tell a person has been using the language forever when he says to people making thos suggestions that there's a good reason why the original way was chosen.
Just joking ;)
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For someone like me coming from the Curly Brackets World If I have to choose the ^ symbol and the PtrtoVal I would choose ^ which BTW I don't like it.
You can tell a person is integrated into a programming language when he starts making suggestion about how it should be changed.
You can tell a person has been using the language forever when he says to people making thos suggestions that there's a good reason why the original way was chosen.
Just joking
It's a game of power:
Lazarus/FreePascal native users vs Delphi native users vs C and it's descendant native users.
regards.
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Lets get rid of all these annoying symbols and tokens:
a = b plus c;
a = b minus c;
a = b times c;
a = b divided by c;
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Or Java style:
a = b.plus(c);
a = b.minus(c);
a = b.times(c);
a = b.dividedby(c);
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Read this (http://pascal-central.com/docs/pascal1973.pdf), Niklaus Wirth never invented Pascal with caret as the pointer dereference operator, it's our current keyboard that doesn't have the required symbol.
But now fpc supports unicode files.
So let us change it to:
var x: ↑word;
Strangel,y I couldn't find the intended symbol for @ in that pdf
Or Java style:
a = b.plus(c);
a = b.minus(c);
a = b.times(c);
a = b.dividedby(c);
With the ability to throw a null pointer exception on every operator usage
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@ Eny
a = b plus c;
a = b minus c;
a = b times c;
a = b divided by c;
No, no, no , it should be : in Pascal-Esperanto (why use English ?)
a egala b pli c;
a egala b malpli c;
a egala b tempo c;
a egala b dividita c;
[edit] Or, better
a egala b pli c punktokomo
a egala b malpli c punktokomo
a egala b tempo c punktokomo
a egala b dividita c punktokomo
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Or windev style
Windev english Wlang
one variable
X is an integer
multiple variables
X, y are integers
Windev french Wlang
one variable
X est un entier
multiple variable
X, y sont des entiers
can you believe this. it's a nightmare >:D
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Lets get rid of all these annoying symbols and tokens:
a = b plus c;
a = b minus c;
a = b times c;
a = b divided by c;
and don't forget that - has two meanings:
The ambiguity can be finally lifted!
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Strangel,y I couldn't find the intended symbol for @ in that pdf
There's no address of operator in original Pascal, I don't really remember when it was added, UCSD maybe?
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Looks like this thread is calling for a return to the original Cobol.
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mode delphi will help a lot.
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Strangel,y I couldn't find the intended symbol for @ in that pdf
There's no address of operator in original Pascal, I don't really remember when it was added, UCSD maybe?
I think later in TP.
UCSD was a VM, (Java's was later modeled after it), and fairly "safe" (in the Java/.NET sense) and not terribly strong in random pointer access.
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I think later in TP.
For TP it was introduced with version 4.0
It is in my TP 4.0 manual, not in my TP 3.0 manual :D