Lazarus

Programming => General => Topic started by: laguna on February 14, 2011, 07:49:36 pm

Title: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: laguna on February 14, 2011, 07:49:36 pm
When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on February 14, 2011, 08:01:04 pm
When it is ready(TM)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: laguna on February 14, 2011, 08:17:24 pm
a roadmap has already been prepared?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: Leledumbo on February 15, 2011, 12:07:51 am
Well... it's just released 5 days ago. I don't think we'll have that soon (unless somebody is already interested and starts writing the bindings AND the widgetset).
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: Blaazen on February 15, 2011, 01:03:42 am
You can see in Lazarus sources (..lcl/interfaces/) that gtk2 folder has 4MB and qt has 5MB so it seems it is not a weekend job to write it.  :)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: motaz on February 15, 2011, 10:24:25 am
I read once that GTK2 is not fully implemented in Lazarus, it is more like porting GTK1 Lazarus to GTK2.

what is the minimum requirement for volunteers to join Lazarus GTK2 or GTK3 development in Lazarus?
is there any guides for them?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: Almindor on February 15, 2011, 10:28:57 am
From what I understand gtk3 is more compatible with gtk2 than gtk2 was with gtk1.

So in short, we just need to follow the migration documentation found here http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/gtk-migrating-2-to-3.html and most things should "just work" (TM).

I do have it planned to test lazarus on gtk3 once it gets to Arch linux and I get some time.

Gtk3 also brings a few things which could be beneficial to Lazarus too.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 01:10:24 am
Hi to all,

Sorry if is not the right thread.

I would like to ask the same question and to mention that, now we are not certain for how long Qt5 will continue to exist on Linux Distributions, due to the change of their policy, as stated here https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases  :(

If they don't step back (imho, they will not), many of the Linux users will be forced to leave KDE, so they will return back to GTK3 Desktops.

Also consider that, GTK2 Desktops have nearly reached to eol.

As stated here https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap#General_status_of_LCL_interfaces, it is still on Alpha Stage.

Therefor, it's development should go on instead of Qt5.

Awaiting further news.

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 09, 2020, 01:35:20 am
There was some recent discussion about Qt5 license https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=49100.0

If you are writing open source, you don't have a problem. I am not personally convinced the changes will see an end to eg KDE but you are certainly right that GTK2 is not the solution it used to be.

You can certainly use GTK3 now, however, its incomplete and unstable in places. Unless you are very selective of what you use, it is sure not ready for production use.  But it never will be if people don' use it, find problems, report them and ideally provide patches to fix them.

I have been advised that the trunk version of Lazarus is better at GTK3, I cannon confirm that but its certainly better at Qt5.

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 02:08:19 am
Thanks for your quick response.  :)

I am on trunk versions for both FPC and Lazarus.

Yes, perhaps you are right regarding KDE, but actually nobody knows, e.g. Oracle Java story.

So, I will test and, if I face any further issue, I will report it (here, or another channel or thread?)

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 03:02:23 am
 :( Sorry to bother again, but my project cannot build with LCLWidgetType:=gtk3, although I am using trunk versions.

It is giving errors at gtk3widgets unit.

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: GAN on April 09, 2020, 05:19:04 am
....
So, I will test and, if I face any further issue, I will report it (here, or another channel or thread?)

Regards

Please, report all bugs here: https://bugs.freepascal.org/my_view_page.php (https://bugs.freepascal.org/my_view_page.php)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: zeljko on April 09, 2020, 09:09:59 am
Hi to all,

Sorry if is not the right thread.

I would like to ask the same question and to mention that, now we are not certain for how long Qt5 will continue to exist on Linux Distributions, due to the change of their policy, as stated here https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases  :(

If they don't step back (imho, they will not), many of the Linux users will be forced to leave KDE, so they will return back to GTK3 Desktops.

Also consider that, GTK2 Desktops have nearly reached to eol.

As stated here https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap#General_status_of_LCL_interfaces, it is still on Alpha Stage.

Therefor, it's development should go on instead of Qt5.

Awaiting further news.

Regards

Directly from Qt:
https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2020-January/038316.html

Only LTS binary / and devel binaries created by Qt are affected.
For LTS you need commercial licence, for binaries you need an account at Qt. Basically, nothing changes for linux distros and commercial users which uses linux packages.
So, only LTS won't be available for all users. That's how I understood those changes.

zeljko

Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 09, 2020, 09:22:00 am

linuxer, did you install libgtk-3-dev  ?

What does your error message actually say ?

David
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 10:06:38 am

linuxer, did you install libgtk-3-dev  ?

What does your error message actually say ?

David

I am on Artix Linux and there is no libgtk-3-dev like Debian or *buntus, and yes gtk3 is installed.

The error message I get is: gtk3widgets.pas(6589,47) Error: Operator is not overloaded: "Class Of TRadioButton" and "Boolean"
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 10:20:48 am
Hi to all,

Sorry if is not the right thread.

I would like to ask the same question and to mention that, now we are not certain for how long Qt5 will continue to exist on Linux Distributions, due to the change of their policy, as stated here https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases  :(

If they don't step back (imho, they will not), many of the Linux users will be forced to leave KDE, so they will return back to GTK3 Desktops.

Also consider that, GTK2 Desktops have nearly reached to eol.

As stated here https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap#General_status_of_LCL_interfaces, it is still on Alpha Stage.

Therefor, it's development should go on instead of Qt5.

Awaiting further news.

Regards

Directly from Qt:
https://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/development/2020-January/038316.html

Only LTS binary / and devel binaries created by Qt are affected.
For LTS you need commercial licence, for binaries you need an account at Qt. Basically, nothing changes for linux distros and commercial users which uses linux packages.
So, only LTS won't be available for all users. That's how I understood those changes.

zeljko

For now yes, LTS versions only are affected.

But, nobody can be certain for the next day.

Qt, has always been a FOSS nightmare.

Please note that the only Desktop that uses it, is actually KDE, not very famous in Linux FOSS Communities, in fact they do not want to depend on any Qt.

So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.

Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on April 09, 2020, 10:24:17 am
Now that GTK4 branchng is imminent, GTK3 is planned to stabilize. Even GIMP is only now migrating.

But afiak with GTK the problem is that bugs outside a few core apps (Gnome, GIMP) are often not fixed. In GTK2 times that was better, but there is no real solution for that.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 10:32:37 am
Maybe your point is correct, I am not aware of it, but GTK in general has to go and goes further.

But, as an XFCE user, I have seen the smooth transition from GTK2 to GTK3, and everything is working fine.

So, perhaps this point, may has to be searched further or revised.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: PascalDragon on April 09, 2020, 01:27:33 pm
For now yes, LTS versions only are affected.

But, nobody can be certain for the next day.

Qt, has always been a FOSS nightmare.

There is no for now. If the owners of Qt should decide to change the language from LGPL to something completely proprietary than the community would simply fork it before that point and continue on, because they wouldn't accept such a change.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on April 09, 2020, 01:29:36 pm
Maybe your point is correct, I am not aware of it, but GTK in general has to go and goes further.

Well, then the people that believe in that should get working on it  ;D
 
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 01:39:42 pm
For now yes, LTS versions only are affected.

But, nobody can be certain for the next day.

Qt, has always been a FOSS nightmare.

There is no for now. If the owners of Qt should decide to change the language from LGPL to something completely proprietary than the community would simply fork it before that point and continue on, because they wouldn't accept such a change.


Thanks for your reply.

Hope that they will do so, actually if not already done, it should be started when they stated this https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Going-More-Commercial.

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: JuhaManninen on April 09, 2020, 02:34:12 pm
For now yes, LTS versions only are affected.
But, nobody can be certain for the next day.
Of course not. A virus or a meteor can wipe out the human race. Whatever can happen.
However I don't see any signs or reasons why QT would kill its open source license. Its dual license has proven to be symbiotic and it continues to be so. QT might be the best example of such a symbiotic dual license.

Quote
Qt, has always been a FOSS nightmare.
No it hasn't. Such FUD was spread already some 20 years ago althougth QT's license was very clear. Apparently the same FUD continues.

Quote
Please note that the only Desktop that uses it, is actually KDE, not very famous in Linux FOSS Communities, in fact they do not want to depend on any Qt.
Really? What GUI library they want to use instead? Do you have links for details?
KDE is among the 3 most famous desktops. I don't know what you mean by "not very famous".

Quote
So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
I guess you mean LCL-GTK3 bindings. The only thing slowing down its development is lack of developers willing to improve it. Please remember, this is a volunteer project. Nobody gets paid. If there was a commercial company supporting the development (with a dual license of LCL maybe), things would be different.
Patches are welcome!

Trying to speed up LCL-GTK3 development is understandable but why did you connect the FUD against QT into it?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 03:39:22 pm
For now yes, LTS versions only are affected.
But, nobody can be certain for the next day.
Of course not. A virus or a meteor can wipe out the human race. Whatever can happen.
However I don't see any signs or reasons why QT would kill its open source license. Its dual license has proven to be symbiotic and it continues to be so. QT might be the best example of such a symbiotic dual license.

Quote
Qt, has always been a FOSS nightmare.
No it hasn't. Such FUD was spread already some 20 years ago althougth QT's license was very clear. Apparently the same FUD continues.

Quote
Please note that the only Desktop that uses it, is actually KDE, not very famous in Linux FOSS Communities, in fact they do not want to depend on any Qt.
Really? What GUI library they want to use instead? Do you have links for details?
KDE is among the 3 most famous desktops. I don't know what you mean by "not very famous".

Quote
So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
I guess you mean LCL-GTK3 bindings. The only thing slowing down its development is lack of developers willing to improve it. Please remember, this is a volunteer project. Nobody gets paid. If there was a commercial company supporting the development (with a dual license of LCL maybe), things would be different.
Patches are welcome!

Trying to speed up LCL-GTK3 development is understandable but why did you connect the FUD against QT into it?

I will give an answer to all points.

KDE it may appears to be among the 3 most used Desktops, but such things may change and are not always as the way they appear to be.
In FOSS community, we have repeatedly mentioned the doubt for Qt, due to it's history and policy and is not a FUD.
I am not ironic, or anything else, when mentioning about the next day, but stating instead, what may follows.
I have referred to GTK3 in general, ok, but I meant the LCL-GTK3 bindings as my main point, I admit.
But also fails the Lazarus build with it.
And of course I know that it is a volunteered project and for this reason I am trying to spread it's usage more, directly to Linux Distributions, where I am a member of the development team.
The fact that you find the license ok, does not mean that there are people who do not.
E.g. when Qt made the last statement, I have seen even the rejection of KDE and Qt to be a possibility from Distributions.
Therefor I made my first question to this place.
If not here, where?

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: zeljko on April 09, 2020, 04:34:07 pm
KDE it may appears to be among the 3 most used Desktops, but such things may change and are not always as the way they appear to be.
In FOSS community, we have repeatedly mentioned the doubt for Qt, due to it's history and policy and is not a FUD.
I am not ironic, or anything else, when mentioning about the next day, but stating instead, what may follows.
I have referred to GTK3 in general, ok, but I meant the LCL-GTK3 bindings as my main point, I admit.
But also fails the Lazarus build with it.
And of course I know that it is a volunteered project and for this reason I am trying to spread it's usage more, directly to Linux Distributions, where I am a member of the development team.
The fact that you find the license ok, does not mean that there are people who do not.
E.g. when Qt made the last statement, I have seen even the rejection of KDE and Qt to be a possibility from Distributions.
Therefor I made my first question to this place.
If not here, where?

Regards

If you care about Lazarus future with Qt/Qt5 then feel free to maintain and finish gtk3 widgetset (or pay someone to do so).
I've commited gtk3 widgetset alpha 7 yrs ago and there's maybe 3-4 ppl which contribute something to gtk3. That's why it's still alpha - no interest and no spare time.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: zeljko on April 09, 2020, 04:36:05 pm
Sorry it's not 7yrs ago but 6 yrs and 9 months per svn
https://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=revision&root=lazarus&revision=41811
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 05:23:45 pm
Sorry it's not 7yrs ago but 6 yrs and 9 months per svn
https://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=revision&root=lazarus&revision=41811

Too much time.

But especially me, I have most of my time spent, as a Linux developer.

Otherwise, yes I would.



 
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: PascalDragon on April 09, 2020, 05:24:18 pm
Hope that they will do so, actually if not already done, it should be started when they stated this https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Going-More-Commercial.

Considering the Phoronix articles from yesterday (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases) and today (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Open-Source-Statement) it could possibly come that KDE and others fork Qt... (though nothing is sure yet)

But as I said: if worse comes to worst then KDE and others will very likely try to continue developing Qt themselves (don't forget that Qt is also used by many others applications and libraries, not only KDE).
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 09, 2020, 05:31:11 pm
Hope that they will do so, actually if not already done, it should be started when they stated this https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Going-More-Commercial.

Considering the Phoronix articles from yesterday (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases) and today (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Open-Source-Statement) it could possibly come that KDE and others fork Qt... (though nothing is sure yet)

But as I said: if worse comes to worst then KDE and others will very likely try to continue developing Qt themselves (don't forget that Qt is also used by many others applications and libraries, not only KDE).

Thanks for the update.

I will be really happy, to find out that there is a forked Qt project.  :) :) :) :)

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: zeljko on April 09, 2020, 05:51:53 pm

Considering the Phoronix articles from yesterday (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Might-Restrict-New-Releases) and today (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Qt-Open-Source-Statement) it could possibly come that KDE and others fork Qt... (though nothing is sure yet)

But as I said: if worse comes to worst then KDE and others will very likely try to continue developing Qt themselves (don't forget that Qt is also used by many others applications and libraries, not only KDE).

I'm sure that Qt will be alive & kicking in any case :)

Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 10, 2020, 02:02:23 am
Please note that the only Desktop that uses it, is actually KDE, not very famous in Linux FOSS Communities, in fact they do not want to depend on any Qt.
Plus of course Ubuntu Kylin which by all reports has quite a lot of users. And Deepin, LXQt .....

So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
Yes, of course. The trouble I found with GTK3 is is keeps changing. One of the GTK3 things I tried to chase down had been implemented nicely in LCL-GTK3 but soon after implementation the api used was declared deprecated.  By time I came to use it, it had been withdrawn. So, I spent some weeks finding a workaround, only to watch as the API I decided to use was also declared deprecated.

If you have a big team of developers, perhaps all wearing red hats, who work in a office next door to the Gnome developers, maybe you can keep up. But they do not make it easy !

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 10, 2020, 02:39:47 am
Please note that the only Desktop that uses it, is actually KDE, not very famous in Linux FOSS Communities, in fact they do not want to depend on any Qt.
Plus of course Ubuntu Kylin which by all reports has quite a lot of users. And Deepin, LXQt .....

So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
Yes, of course. The trouble I found with GTK3 is is keeps changing. One of the GTK3 things I tried to chase down had been implemented nicely in LCL-GTK3 but soon after implementation the api used was declared deprecated.  By time I came to use it, it had been withdrawn. So, I spent some weeks finding a workaround, only to watch as the API I decided to use was also declared deprecated.

If you have a big team of developers, perhaps all wearing red hats, who work in a office next door to the Gnome developers, maybe you can keep up. But they do not make it easy !

Davo

Ubuntu Kylin, Deepin and LxQt may be have a lot of users, but not the most. Yes I got your point, but I do not agree.

What about MATE or Gnome or Cinnamon or XFCE users? Do they exist and are a big part of many other distributions, or not? XUbuntu,Ubuntu Mate e.t.c. do not exist too?

Of course we know what it means to have a big team of Developers, because we do not also have it available, on Artix Linux.

Plus, the case here is not an arena for fighting, but to improve, what can be improved, further.

Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 10, 2020, 10:07:56 am
Plus, the case here is not an arena for fighting, but to improve, what can be improved, further.

Hey, Linuxer, if I sounded a bit harsh, its certainly not intended.  I seriously apologize. But I agree with you is almost every thing you have said. Lazarus must have GTK3 to be a credible Linux product, absolutely no doubt about that.  And more and more distributions are leaving out all the GTK2 libraries.  My claim that my app has little or no dependencies is sounding quite hollow when people need download my app at 5Meg or so and 200Meg of GTK2.  And we are finding that the GTK2 libraries available with new distros have problems, problems "no one" cares about.

But what I, and the other people who responded needed to make clear is is hard !  Before we (collectively) can solve a problem, we need to understand it. And discuss it. Its a good thing you started this thread !

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: PascalDragon on April 10, 2020, 10:24:01 am
So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
Yes, of course. The trouble I found with GTK3 is is keeps changing. One of the GTK3 things I tried to chase down had been implemented nicely in LCL-GTK3 but soon after implementation the api used was declared deprecated.  By time I came to use it, it had been withdrawn. So, I spent some weeks finding a workaround, only to watch as the API I decided to use was also declared deprecated.

Considering that development of GTK is now moved to version 4 I think we can consider GTK3 as stable (with GIMP also moving to it only now) and thus we should be able to keep up now. :)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 10, 2020, 01:00:11 pm
So, PD, what you are saying is GTK3 is out of beta ?  Thats nice .....

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 10, 2020, 02:53:12 pm
Plus, the case here is not an arena for fighting, but to improve, what can be improved, further.

Hey, Linuxer, if I sounded a bit harsh, its certainly not intended.  I seriously apologize. But I agree with you is almost every thing you have said. Lazarus must have GTK3 to be a credible Linux product, absolutely no doubt about that.  And more and more distributions are leaving out all the GTK2 libraries.  My claim that my app has little or no dependencies is sounding quite hollow when people need download my app at 5Meg or so and 200Meg of GTK2.  And we are finding that the GTK2 libraries available with new distros have problems, problems "no one" cares about.

But what I, and the other people who responded needed to make clear is is hard !  Before we (collectively) can solve a problem, we need to understand it. And discuss it. Its a good thing you started this thread !

Davo

Thank you very much, for your provided answer to me, honestly.  :)

Also thanking you, for the better understanding of my suggested points, as I have pretty understood yours.

I did not mean to insult anyone, because more or less we are all developers, no matter what subject it may concerns, but to warn instead.

Just for adding more value at your points, unfortunately a lot of people are attacking us, because they consider that we are their servants (in it's bad meaning of the word).

And, of course, we are not.

Regards.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 10, 2020, 02:58:03 pm
So, I believe that GTK3 must change it's stage from Alpha.
Yes, of course. The trouble I found with GTK3 is is keeps changing. One of the GTK3 things I tried to chase down had been implemented nicely in LCL-GTK3 but soon after implementation the api used was declared deprecated.  By time I came to use it, it had been withdrawn. So, I spent some weeks finding a workaround, only to watch as the API I decided to use was also declared deprecated.

Considering that development of GTK is now moved to version 4 I think we can consider GTK3 as stable (with GIMP also moving to it only now) and thus we should be able to keep up now. :)

Yeap! :)

It is the time, because they will start to "play and change" more with GTK4 code.

For GTK3, there may be (if needed) minor changes.

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: munair on April 12, 2020, 08:01:20 am
LCL with GTK2 still works fine on the XFCE desktop, even though XFCE is working on full GTK3 support.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 12, 2020, 10:23:49 am
LCL with GTK2 still works fine on the XFCE desktop, even though XFCE is working on full GTK3 support.

Yes, it is working but GTK2 libs are outdated, because they are without maintenance.
Anyway, It is better to move, as Desktops done, because nobody guaranties that things will not break tomorrow.
When such break happens, their removal will be done too.
Also GTK3 has no backwards compatibility.
Those are the reasons.
If you consider that, my points are not correct, why then XFCE transitioned to GTK3?

Regards



Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: af0815 on April 12, 2020, 02:32:22 pm
should this page https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap#General_status_of_LCL_interfaces
updated to reflect the state of gtk3. Or is the state shown somewhere ?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 12, 2020, 02:44:55 pm
should this page https://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Roadmap#General_status_of_LCL_interfaces
updated to reflect the state of gtk3. Or is the state shown somewhere ?

According to zejlko's answer on page 2, is still on Alpha Stage.

Awaiting also further news too.

Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 12, 2020, 02:47:44 pm
LCL with GTK2 still works fine on the XFCE desktop, even though XFCE is working on full GTK3 support.

I think the XFCE situation is they have announced that their next release (or is that current release ?) will not need GTK2.  That means that distributions that use XFCE will be free to leave all the GTK2 libraries out if nothing else in their standard install needs them.  That means pressure on app makers to be, themselves free of GTK2.

The GTK2 libraries can always (well, for some time) be downloaded, its about 200Meg, and it also means that the desktop and distro maintainers are somewhat less interested in making sure their systems actually work with the GTK2 libraries as they should. We have already seen that with Ubuntu, note issues with Gnome version  of U19.10.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 12, 2020, 03:00:42 pm
LCL with GTK2 still works fine on the XFCE desktop, even though XFCE is working on full GTK3 support.

I think the XFCE situation is they have announced that their next release (or is that current release ?) will not need GTK2.  That means that distributions that use XFCE will be free to leave all the GTK2 libraries out if nothing else in their standard install needs them.  That means pressure on app makers to be, themselves free of GTK2.

The GTK2 libraries can always (well, for some time) be downloaded, its about 200Meg, and it also means that the desktop and distro maintainers are somewhat less interested in making sure their systems actually work with the GTK2 libraries as they should. We have already seen that with Ubuntu, note issues with Gnome version  of U19.10.

Please allow me to add that, XFCE always reflects the correct timing for transition between the GTK Releases.

This also the reason that it is the most rock solid desktop (imho)

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: munair on April 12, 2020, 03:26:11 pm
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on April 12, 2020, 03:29:19 pm
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D

Yeah, we'll just say we skip the odd versions because we thought they were development versions  ;)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 12, 2020, 04:21:00 pm
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D

Yeah, we'll just say we skip the odd versions because we thought they were development versions  ;)

According to this https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK/Roadmap/GTK4 is nearly ready.

The point is that Gnome and Mate will be the first adopting it.

XFCE and other GTK Desktops, will usually have a delay.

So, skipping it, it may not be a good idea at this point.

Anyway, try to do you best, because the removal of GTK2 will affect everyone.

Regards
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: af0815 on April 12, 2020, 11:56:22 pm
Is there a official statement for gtk3 or gtk4 ?! From the core team of Lazarus ?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: af0815 on April 12, 2020, 11:58:41 pm
When it is ready(TM)
c by MVC 2011

SCNR
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 13, 2020, 12:53:39 am
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D

We are all complaining about LCL's GTK3, and there is still a lot not working. However, there is quite a lot that is working !  Most of it does work mostly !   To walk away from that and jump blindly into GTK4 would be a mistake, we don't have anything working in GTK4 right now ......

And you can bet GTK4 will be like GTK3 was, constantly changing, varying levels of documentation.  And no support in those desktops that are dragging their feet.  No, we need GTK3 now (or a stronger commitment to Qt5 ?) to keep us going for the several years that GTK4 will take to settle down.

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: asdf1337 on April 13, 2020, 01:32:27 am
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D

We are all complaining about LCL's GTK3, and there is still a lot not working. However, there is quite a lot that is working !  Most of it does work mostly ! 
Everyone is complaining but I assume nobody started to read the documentation and trying to fix the problems etc. Just complaining in hope that someone else will fix it >:D
Better to work together and defeat the problems 8)

We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D
No, we need GTK3 now (or a stronger commitment to Qt5 ?) to keep us going for the several years that GTK4 will take to settle down.

Davo
Not sure if Qt5 is the future after they announced to probably delay the open source versions... ;)
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 13, 2020, 01:45:20 am
We can all put efforts in migrating to GTK3 now, but before you know it, GTK3 will feel "outdated" too because pressure to migrate to GTK4 will be around the corner.  :D

We are all complaining about LCL's GTK3, and there is still a lot not working. However, there is quite a lot that is working !  Most of it does work mostly !   To walk away from that and jump blindly into GTK4 would be a mistake, we don't have anything working in GTK4 right now ......

And you can bet GTK4 will be like GTK3 was, constantly changing, varying levels of documentation.  And no support in those desktops that are dragging their feet.  No, we need GTK3 now (or a stronger commitment to Qt5 ?) to keep us going for the several years that GTK4 will take to settle down.

Davo

Both points are correct. GTK3 has been stabilized, so is what we all need.

As repeatedly mentioned, just follow the XFCE way.

GTK4, is too early to be adopted.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: dbannon on April 13, 2020, 01:46:22 am
Hey asdf1337, the angry icon is there for one particular forum user who knows heaps and occasionly shares his wisdom usefully.

Lets not see it in friendly conversations .....

Davo
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: asdf1337 on April 13, 2020, 01:53:06 am
Hey asdf1337, the angry icon is there for one particular forum user who knows heaps and occasionly shares his wisdom usefully.

Lets not see it in friendly conversations .....

Davo
Oh didn't know that it's Thaddy's private emoji :-[
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: winni on April 13, 2020, 01:59:54 am

Oh didn't know that it's Thaddy's private emoji :-[

Yes it is!

But I told him that the stack is nearly empty ....

Winni
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: VTwin on April 13, 2020, 05:12:51 pm
 :D
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: VTwin on April 13, 2020, 05:25:01 pm
Thanks for this thread. Maybe now that cocoa is pretty stable I can try to help find some gtk3 bugs. It would be great to have that running in good shape.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on April 13, 2020, 05:37:27 pm
Both points are correct. GTK3 has been stabilized, so is what we all need.

This is not correct. After GTK4 branches off, GTK3 will be IN stabilization. That doesn't mean it is ALREADY STABLE.

Quote
As repeatedly mentioned, just follow the XFCE way.

If bugs are encountered that are not fixed, there is a problem. This is probably also why nobody has volunteered for this thankless job.
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: linuxer on April 13, 2020, 06:00:31 pm
Both points are correct. GTK3 has been stabilized, so is what we all need.

This is not correct. After GTK4 branches off, GTK3 will be IN stabilization. That doesn't mean it is ALREADY STABLE.

Under this consideration, yes.

But even if so, only minor changes will be applied, normally, until then.

So, what do you suggest?
Title: Re: When GTK3 in Lazarus?
Post by: marcov on April 13, 2020, 08:26:32 pm
Both points are correct. GTK3 has been stabilized, so is what we all need.

This is not correct. After GTK4 branches off, GTK3 will be IN stabilization. That doesn't mean it is ALREADY STABLE.

Under this consideration, yes.

But even if so, only minor changes will be applied, normally, until then.

So, what do you suggest?

Hard to say. The question is simply if there are people that believe that GTK will stabilize, and want to work on it.

Personally, I'd bet my cards on QT, but since my *nix GUI work has pretty much halted, it doesn't matter much for me.
TinyPortal © 2005-2018