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Author Topic: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers  (Read 8457 times)

KodeZwerg

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2024, 07:58:06 pm »
How about to drop that paule32 offtopic stuff and come back to topic?

Is all about free and paid.
If you want to make money with Delphi you need to pay it.
If you want to make money with Lazarus you don't need to pay it.
Reminder:
Quote
As the title of the thread says, what IDE would you recommend to begginers for a smooth and mostly trouble free experience?
So what in the world has cracking software, using illegal copies, pay for this or that, i use this OS because blabla, earn something or not has to do with the topics question about how this beautiful language is best learned with?
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 31:76:97 xm by KodeZwerg »

lainz

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2024, 08:06:08 pm »
How about to drop that paule32 offtopic stuff and come back to topic?

Is all about free and paid.
If you want to make money with Delphi you need to pay it.
If you want to make money with Lazarus you don't need to pay it.
Reminder:
Quote
As the title of the thread says, what IDE would you recommend to begginers for a smooth and mostly trouble free experience?
So what in the world has cracking software, using illegal copies, pay for this or that, i use this OS because blabla, earn something or not has to do with the topics question about how this beautiful language is best learned with?

Well you can't use Delphi on Linux or Mac. The IDE is for Windows so the OS matter.

Pay for this or that. Delphi is paid. The free version they offer is not for commercial use. Or a very limited one.

Piracy : you can pirate Delphi. But you can't pirate Lazarus.

The language is best learned with the same tool you will use for production.

Delphi and Lazarus are both different worlds. If you want to go open source there's Lazarus. If you want to go paid (even if you start with free) go Delphi.

Is not the same language. Because that there's Delphi mode and isn't finished and it never will. There's no FMX support and is the tool used for cross platform in Delphi.

So again I think he is not out of place. Just he sees the thing as more complex than just choosing a free tool from other

paule32

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2024, 08:20:17 pm »
So what in the world has cracking software, using illegal copies, pay for this or that, i use this OS because blabla, earn something or not has to do with the topics question about how this beautiful language is best learned with?

The fact is: You are free, in what you use: Windows or Linux - it is a self decision.
The fact is: It depend on the Software, what you would use later.

For Beginners, Lazarus is not the first choice.
For Beginners, FPC on Console Command Line is the best first choice.
 

marcov

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2024, 08:21:59 pm »
Is all about free and paid.
If you want to make money with Delphi you need to pay it.
If you want to make money with Lazarus you don't need to pay it.
Though I assume that Delphi, having its roots at MS-dos/Windows, has better support for the Windows platform. Again, I do not know this for a fact, not used Delphi for ages.

This was so for a long time, but FPC did quite some catchup over the years.  Quite often things are related to not having an own assembler, linker and debugger.

Still things are remaining. In the core system Packages, Active Form support (axctrls unit). Services are also a bit basic.  Further out more (e.g. ISAPI DLL intercepters etc). 


KodeZwerg

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2024, 08:39:32 pm »
Well you can't use Delphi on Linux or Mac. The IDE is for Windows so the OS matter.
You forgot to mention that the Delphi IDE is only 32bit, anyway, offtopic, use VM and good is.
But that point I already told on page 1.

Pay for this or that. Delphi is paid. The free version they offer is not for commercial use. Or a very limited one.
You can of course use the community edition in a commercial way, just read the EULA, offtopic.

Piracy : you can pirate Delphi. But you can't pirate Lazarus.
Delphi Community Edition is free, what are you telling about piracy, offtopic.

The language is best learned with the same tool you will use for production.
I do agree but many need to know basics before they job with it and how should someone know what the future job is offering for possibilities (IDE).

Delphi and Lazarus are both different worlds.
Hmmm not in my world. I have both and use both regular. Mostly same syntax, mostly same limits.

If you want to go open source there's Lazarus. If you want to go paid (even if you start with free) go Delphi.
You can do both with both, fact.

Is not the same language. Because that there's Delphi mode and isn't finished and it never will. There's no FMX support and is the tool used for cross platform in Delphi.
Begin ...code... End   where is the difference, just half offtopic.
Anyway, question was not "List me differences about coding in FPC vs Delphi" or "Tell me how Delphi and FPC realize crossplatform" or "Can I port Delphi specific FMX projects to Lazarus" etc ...

So again I think he is not out of place. Just he sees the thing as more complex than just choosing a free tool from other
Okay I give you that point even that my feelings tell me its offtopic.



I stay out of this, enjoy =)
« Last Edit: Tomorrow at 31:76:97 xm by KodeZwerg »

lainz

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2024, 08:41:48 pm »
So again I think he is not out of place. Just he sees the thing as more complex than just choosing a free tool from other
Okay I give you that point even that my feelings tell me its offtopic.
I stay out of this, enjoy =)

Thanks for a point  :)

Sure we think different (tm).

440bx

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2024, 08:43:48 pm »
@lainz

That comment was prompted by the claim that writing a device driver to enable Linux to use some device is "illegal".  Actually, depending on how the situation is structured, it can be illegal to use the availability of device drivers (or other software) to create a monopoly.

You are correct that, in general, I don't support piracy.  That said, I've used pirated copies of software I fully paid for because the pirated copy had removed a number of annoyances the purchased copy had.  IOW, the pirated copy served its user _better_.  That kind of thing reflects very poorly on the company that developed the software (the majority don't care, it's not about the customer... it's all about money... long live capitalism... chuckle)

Back decades ago, MS got justifiably and rightfully sued by the DOJ for anti-competitive practices and planting the seeds of creating a monopoly in the Windows 95 software.   What MS did in Windows 95 is literally insignificant compared to what it has been doing starting with Win 7 (just a little bit there) and culminating in Win 11.  It's really unfortunate that there is no Andrew Schulman to expose what's going on and that, Matt Pietrek has left the software developement field.  There are very capable people around but they all seem to be Windows cheerleaders (maybe that's capitalism at work... the Gordon Gekko mantra... greed is good - obviously not for everyone... oh well.)

There are companies and people who live and never learn.  Borland was more successful selling a $29.99 piece of software than Idera is selling its descendant for over $1000.00... the restrictions on their community edition is another example of live and never learn... compare those restrictions with the one(s) that applied to Turbo Pascal... quite a difference... almost as big as the difference in market share between the two products... it must be a coincidence ;)

« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 08:46:04 pm by 440bx »
(FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2) or (FPC v3.2.2 and Lazarus v3.2) on Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

lainz

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2024, 08:54:14 pm »
@440bx

I don't understand the thing about the Linux driver. Is like any drivers like video cards or like a USB dongle that prevents piracy of some software?

Edit : I understand now what he say it about 'Taylored software'

Well yes is a monopoly Ms Windows for desktop like Android for phones. All of them selling user data by giving the free os.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 09:26:25 pm by lainz »

TRon

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2024, 09:00:27 pm »
@marcov:
Thank you for elaborating on that subject. Very much appreciated.

440bx

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2024, 09:40:07 pm »
@440bx

I don't understand the thing about the Linux driver. Is like any drivers like video cards or like a USB dongle that prevents piracy of some software?
Any way MS or any other company can use to limit the availability of drivers in Linux is a way of lessening the effectiveness of Linux thereby indirectly creating a monopoly for the OS for which those drivers are available (usually Windows.)

The really nasty and extremely unfortunate part is that there are people out there who genuinely believe that creating a driver, without manufacturer consent, for Linux for some piece of hardware is illegal.  It is NOT, absolutely NOT, it is perfectly legal (of course, provided the code is independently developed.)  There is no difference between that and companies that make, for example, compatible car parts.  The brainwashing is unfortunately a lot more effective than it should be.  Companies are good at exploiting one of Einstein's observations ;)

As far as Delphi Community Edition, it's not good for anyone.  It's just a, "not particularly good", attempt from Idera to create a dependency on their software.  I suppose, a few people will initially fall for it but, I doubt the "addiction" will last long.

For someone who likes Pascal, FPC and Lazarus are a way better choice.  If for no other reason that the day Idera (or whoever is peddling Delphi at the time) decides that they will no longer market the product (because it is unprofitable) then the product will no longer be available in the market.  GNU Pascal is a dead product but, if someone wants a copy, a copy of the genuine article is available anytime, that won't be true the day Delphi sees software growing from below ;)

ETA:

@lainz

I saw your edit after I posted.  I'll leave it there anyway.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 09:42:12 pm by 440bx »
(FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2) or (FPC v3.2.2 and Lazarus v3.2) on Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

lainz

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2024, 09:48:38 pm »
Thanks for the explanation.  :)

paweld

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2024, 09:56:22 pm »
Sorry for the offtopic, but I would like to straighten out one thing that I think is important.

@lainz, @KodeZwerg: both open source Lazarus/FPC and free Delphi CE can be pirated. In the case of Lazarus/FPC - sharing the binary version of the compiler or IDE after making changes to the source code, but not sharing the source code that changes is a license violation.
In the case of Delphi CE, then using it when you make revenues above $5,000 is also a license violation.
Best regards / Pozdrawiam
paweld

lainz

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2024, 10:05:31 pm »
Sorry for the offtopic, but I would like to straighten out one thing that I think is important.

@lainz, @KodeZwerg: both open source Lazarus/FPC and free Delphi CE can be pirated. In the case of Lazarus/FPC - sharing the binary version of the compiler or IDE after making changes to the source code, but not sharing the source code that changes is a license violation.
In the case of Delphi CE, then using it when you make revenues above $5,000 is also a license violation.

Sure I forget that.

I think is not offtopic.

El Salvador

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2024, 09:21:39 am »
Another thing that doesn't seem to have come up. Not all versions of Delphi are released with the community edition or in any case they take many months before they release the new version. For example, Delphi CE 12 (november 2023) does not yet exist.

paule32

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Re: Delphi Community Edition vs Lazarus for Begginers
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2024, 09:26:53 am »
@paweld

Yes, this is right, and a next one Point, that I would talking.
What does anyone of us ?
The License will not be read that will prompt out when we install software.

So, we don't read the tiny words in the long License.

So, I was usung MIT - License on much Projects...

But for me, MIT License (github.com) is a Snow-Ball-System-License:
See:
- you can declare your Work with MIT
- each other can use your Work (and can declare it as own Work)
- than, I someone (Client/Customer) comes from a Fork to you, and claim Money-Back about Damage from Software, you never had develop for (and here, the Snow-Ball-System starts: someone knows someone, that knows someone... etc. and so forth...)

You understand, what I would like to say ?

 

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