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Author Topic: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services  (Read 7155 times)

PascalDragon

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2023, 11:13:05 pm »
The LCL only uses what is provided by the compiler.
RTL just as any user of the RTTI uses the functionality.
I can understand those two facts too.
The IDE uses information provided by the compiler.
Nothing new here, again.

Am I wrong in beliving it became a huge task over the years to make Lazarus IDE searches information (RTTI) provided by the FPC compiler and uses it ("implement") on its [Lazarus IDE] source code?

Yes, you are wrong, because right now there is nothing the IDE is missing. All of the required functionality of the LCL is implemented using the current state of the RTTI and that has been the case for years, otherwise the LCL would simply not work.

The IDE has no need for the extended RTTI which is work-in-progress. It's users that want it, especially those that come from current Delphi versions.

valdir.marcos

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2023, 12:02:04 am »
The LCL only uses what is provided by the compiler.
RTL just as any user of the RTTI uses the functionality.
I can understand those two facts too.
The IDE uses information provided by the compiler.
Nothing new here, again.

Am I wrong in beliving it became a huge task over the years to make Lazarus IDE searches information (RTTI) provided by the FPC compiler and uses it ("implement") on its [Lazarus IDE] source code?
Yes, you are wrong, because right now there is nothing the IDE is missing. All of the required functionality of the LCL is implemented using the current state of the RTTI and that has been the case for years, otherwise the LCL would simply not work.
Apparently, you and I keep talking about different things (apples and oranges).

I'm saying that making the Lazarus IDE consume and use the information (RTTI) provided by the FPC compiler took many hours of hard work from experienced programmers.
It took years to reach the high level of quality we have now.

When you say that I am wrong in thinking this way, you are telling me that making RTTI work [from scratch to current high quality] within Lazarus IDE was a silly, trivial, simplistic, quick task that required little effort and that it would be easily carried out from scratch to its current completion in a few hours of work by a novice and inexperienced programmer.

Quote
The IDE has no need for the extended RTTI which is work-in-progress.
It's users that want it, especially those that come from current Delphi versions.

440bx

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2023, 08:08:04 am »
Take a look at: http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIPS/cartridge/, there are some "ifdef PASTEL" within the file 00002 in the archive PASCAL-src_1.30.zip, but can't be sure if this is what you are looking for. Good luck with the file format.
And please share your finds !

Daniel
Thank you Daniel.

I had a look at the source code and saw those "#ifdef PASTEL".  I looked at file 00002 and PASCALV.TAP.  Definitely got some idea of what the language looks like from them. 

It was definitely helpful to see what Pastel could compile.  I suspect that the compiler source is not for Pastel but, for whatever flavor of Pascal MIPS created which likely had things in common with Pastel, though, I admit this is speculation on my part.

Again, thank you!
FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

dtoffe

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2023, 09:21:06 pm »
It was definitely helpful to see what Pastel could compile.  I suspect that the compiler source is not for Pastel but, for whatever flavor of Pascal MIPS created which likely had things in common with Pastel, though, I admit this is speculation on my part.

I got confirmation from Earl Killian that the archive is in fact the Pascal compiler started at MIPS and later modified to add many Pastel features, which greatly enhanced its performance. Now there are other people looking after the original Pastel source code.

Cheers,

Daniel

PascalDragon

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2023, 06:25:34 pm »
When you say that I am wrong in thinking this way, you are telling me that making RTTI work [from scratch to current high quality] within Lazarus IDE was a silly, trivial, simplistic, quick task that required little effort and that it would be easily carried out from scratch to its current completion in a few hours of work by a novice and inexperienced programmer.

Compared to the remainder of the IDE (including the form designer), yes, it's relatively trivial. I wouldn't say novice or inexperienced level, but someone who understands (Object) Pascal and can read tutorials and examples should be able to implement code interacting with the RTTI relatively quickly. And those people do exist.

dtoffe

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2023, 01:42:38 am »
It was definitely helpful to see what Pastel could compile.  I suspect that the compiler source is not for Pastel but, for whatever flavor of Pascal MIPS created which likely had things in common with Pastel, though, I admit this is speculation on my part.

I got confirmation from Earl Killian that the archive is in fact the Pascal compiler started at MIPS and later modified to add many Pastel features, which greatly enhanced its performance. Now there are other people looking after the original Pastel source code.

Cheers,

Daniel

I extracted the source files from the archive and created a Github repository for it:

https://github.com/dtoffe/MIPS-Pascal

Cheers,

Daniel

440bx

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Re: Anders Hejlsberg interview on Language Intelligence Services
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2023, 03:27:21 am »
I extracted the source files from the archive and created a Github repository for it:
That's great Daniel. 

It will definitely make it easier for other people interested in Pastel to find information related to it.
FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

 

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