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John Carmack talks about Pascal

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madel:
In his interview with Lex Fridman:

"... the world might have been better if it had gone Pascal's route..."

Thoughts?

(Talk about Pascal starts at 1:36:30)

https://youtu.be/I845O57ZSy4?t=5791

AlexTP:
Yes, Pascal at the time of C/C++ beginning,  could also be improved to the state of C++, could be made the same by CPU code fastness, by optimizations. If corporations invested into its compiler. But they did not want it. Maybe because USA corporations did not like the work of German/Swiss scientist, you know - War phobia to all Germans, to German culture, to ideas, to people. Even today in 2022 year, I often see 'bad German guys' in USA films. Even in LucasArts game 'The Dig', main bad guy is German/USA cosmonaut.

MarkMLl:

--- Quote from: AlexTP on August 18, 2022, 10:58:16 pm ---Maybe because USA corporations did not like the work of German/Swiss scientist,

--- End quote ---

Don't be so bloody daft: most of his work was done at Stanford.

MarkMLl

VisualLab:

--- Quote ---Yes, Pascal at the time of C/C++ beginning,  could also be improved to the state of C++, could be made the same by CPU code fastness, by optimizations. If corporations invested into its compiler. But they did not want it.
--- End quote ---

I totally agree on the Pascal tools improvements (compiler, etc).


--- Quote ---Maybe because USA corporations did not like the work of German/Swiss scientist, you know - War phobia to all Germans, to German culture, to ideas, to people. Even today in 2022 year, I often see 'bad German guys' in USA films. Even in LucasArts game 'The Dig', main bad guy is German/USA cosmonaut.
--- End quote ---

However, on the issue of "eradicating" the Pascal language by US corporations, I would say that it is rather speculation. It seems to me that the main role was (as always) played by money. The (considerable) investment in their own solutions must have resulted in spreading propaganda that their programming language (tools - compiler, etc.) is the best. After all, the management of a corporation does not give money for some technical solutions, just to experiment, it just wants profits. Another thing is that many such investments have gone down the drain. Despite large investments, various projects did not work out (eg Multics, Taligent) or there was too little interest from potential clients. If you look at other technical fields (electronics, automotive, etc.), you could probably find such examples there too.

Besides, not only corporations are like that. The people (leaders) involved in open source projects are exactly the same. Just look at the myth of the best operating system: Unix. It used to be a product of a bad corporation (Bell Labs, then AT&T). But he was hailed the best OS fairly quickly. In fact, it has been a technological dinosaur for many years. This bogus "halo" went from Unix to Linux. And yet Linux is a technological crap. But corporations use it because they bear relatively little development costs. Because it is more convenient for them. And it is with this solution that the popularity of the C language is connected. Of course, there were attempts to use Pascal, but there was not enough determination and interest (I think DEC). Generally, in the IT technology clash of US companies at that time, European companies had no chance. US companies had more money and tremendous support from the government. Anyway, this is still the case today. For the president and the investing people (shareholding), the only thing that matters is whether there are prospects for profits from the solution developed by the company.

440bx:

--- Quote from: madel on August 18, 2022, 10:25:52 pm ---"... the world might have been better if it had gone Pascal's route..."

--- End quote ---
The world is going the Pascal way, albeit very slowly (and in a very contorted way.)  By that I mean including strong type checking.  This can be seen in ANSI C and in C++.

There is still a _long_, very long way to go.  Unfortunately, it is quite apparent that as far as syntax goes, the world isn't going the Pascal way. Instead it is going backwards (at a rapid pace in that area.)

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