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Author Topic: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5  (Read 1054 times)

rvk

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2022, 09:05:57 pm »
Correct. Use something that can be maintained from the start, not something that gives your customer headaches if something happens to you.
ALWAYS use industry standards. Firebird is not one of those.....
Hahaha, and FPC and Lazarus aren't industry standards either.
So by that logic... Stay away from FPC and Lazarus if you don't want to give your customers headaches if something happens to you  :D

Nicole

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2022, 05:27:35 pm »
I am very new to Lazarus, but very old to Firebird and Delphi.

My first idea is: Why use firebird 2.5 instead of 4?

Me next suggestion is:
Try to do some work by the Freeware FlameRobin. Just grab it and give it a try. I will explain itsself.

about SQL:
Firebird uses SQL dialect 3, the same as Flamerobin.
The SQL-editor of Flamerobin offers nice things, give it a try. Some queries you can do from there with ease (others not).

As said before, I have not worked with Firebird and Delphi before, but I will soon.
And I will use Zeos.

These links I grabbed for this purpose. Not sure, if they work. to me they look good
https://www.firebirdfaq.org/faq337/
https://lazarus.intern.es/firebird_lazarus_beachten.html

440bx

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2022, 06:07:04 pm »
By the way, for our other friends who care about the matter of "Qickly <> Fastest" I'll say that it'll be so difficult to prove that with English except if you are an expert in English. Many times clarifying the differences between similar English words by English itself will be an obscure work, that you'll reach to a no so good clear meanings, or you lack kind of Arabization of the meanings, and it's - according to my experience in English - some difficult in English itself for some essential attributes of English itself that it's not so free language in its ways of expressing like Arabic.
It doesn't really take an expert and, if you are interested in mastering English then you should be interested in the differences between such words.

Fastest implies a comparison.  It means that in a given set of elements, there is one that is faster than all other elements in the set.  For instance, in the set of 100m runners, the fastest ever is Usain Bolt who set the current record.

The people he competed against were obviously very quick and fast (much faster than the average person), therefore it is accurate to say they are quick but, none of them are the fastest, that distinction, so far, can only be used to describe Usain Bolt.

In general terms, Quick is something that happens in less than the average time (for whatever is being measured).  Fastest means there is nothing quicker (in the set of course, light is faster than Mr. Usain Bolt, but that is a different set.) So far, if you believe Einstein, light is the fastest of any element in the set of elements that move.

Hopefully, that makes the difference between quick and fast clear.  This is a quick explanation but, it certainly hasn't been the fastest one. :D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 06:20:25 pm by 440bx »
FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 64bit.

y.ivanov

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2022, 06:50:16 pm »
By the way, for our other friends who care about the matter of "Qickly <> Fastest" I'll say that it'll be so difficult to prove that with English except if you are an expert in English. Many times clarifying the differences between similar English words by English itself will be an obscure work, that you'll reach to a no so good clear meanings, or you lack kind of Arabization of the meanings, and it's - according to my experience in English - some difficult in English itself for some essential attributes of English itself that it's not so free language in its ways of expressing like Arabic.
It doesn't really take an expert and, if you are interested in mastering English then you should be interested in the differences between such words.
*snip*
Well, if that's what it takes...

nothing expert here, just a basic rule for suffixes:
  • -ly a suffix forming adverbs from adjectives
  • -er a suffix used in forming the comparative degree of adjectives
  • -est a suffix forming the superlative degree of adjectives and adverbs
=> Quick-ly (adverb) <> Fast-est (superlative)
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
—HAL 9000

440bx

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2022, 07:24:38 pm »
Well, if that's what it takes...

nothing expert here, just a basic rule for suffixes:
  • -ly a suffix forming adverbs from adjectives
  • -er a suffix used in forming the comparative degree of adjectives
  • -est a suffix forming the superlative degree of adjectives and adverbs
=> Quick-ly (adverb) <> Fast-est (superlative)
What you said is correct.  What I wanted to point out is the significant difference in the _meaning_ and usage of the two words unrelated to their structure. 

Not that structure isn't important.
FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 64bit.

Thaddy

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2022, 11:29:42 am »
Correct. Use something that can be maintained from the start, not something that gives your customer headaches if something happens to you.
ALWAYS use industry standards. Firebird is not one of those.....
Hahaha, and FPC and Lazarus aren't industry standards either.
So by that logic... Stay away from FPC and Lazarus if you don't want to give your customers headaches if something happens to you  :D
I was referring to the data format, not in which language it coded. And you know that very well. >:D
Firebird has just not enough bindings in other languages compared to mainstream. It is a niche format, just like fpc is a niche compiler(maybe).
Just do not rely on such dubious formats. Your customer will be grateful. It is all about the data, not the compiler. And it is not reasonably maintained since 2014. (Know it is somewhat maintained since 2014, but still)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebird_(database)
E.G: Embedded Sqlite is maintained and in many ways just better AND is THE standard.
But if you want evil, feel free to do evil....
If you don't, look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLite and shiver about its applications and OS's that support it out of the box.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 11:48:16 am by Thaddy »
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korba812

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2022, 01:13:39 pm »
Firebird has just not enough bindings in other languages compared to mainstream. It is a niche format, just like fpc is a niche compiler(maybe).
Any example?
Just do not rely on such dubious formats. Your customer will be grateful. It is all about the data, not the compiler. And it is not reasonably maintained since 2014. (Know it is somewhat maintained since 2014, but still)
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebird_(database)
E.G: Embedded Sqlite is maintained and in many ways just better AND is THE standard.
But if you want evil, feel free to do evil....
If you don't, look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLite and shiver about its applications and OS's that support it out of the box.
Rather, I would say that the Dutch wiki page has not been updated since 2014.

rvk

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2022, 01:33:57 pm »
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebird_(database)
Never use Dutch wiki for such information.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebird_(database_server)

If you only want embedded, then sure, go for SQLite.
If you want to go for a solid server, with an option for users to use an embedded version without server, SQLite isn't the correct choice. I'm not saying Firebird is the only choice but for the combination of being both embedded and server it's a much better choice than SQLite.

For the same reason users choose FPC (as a niche compiler) they can also choose for a niche database engine. Especially if it has the advantages they are looking for.



Thaddy

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2022, 01:43:58 pm »
So what advantages? There are none unless you believe in hype.
What I eventually have learned over the course of a 40 year career, make sure your third-party code is a standard. Firebird is not. Period. Especially with data you need to be very, very, very careful. Use Firebird for hobby projects? Fine, it is not bad, but absolutely not in a corporate environment (I am not even aware of any serious scale examples).
The wikipedia entry on Sqlite, or PostGress or Oracle or MySql/MariaDb tells it all.
If you want multi-user, use one of the big guns, so anyone can restore your data when your own software is obsoleted or worse: lost!
FireBird is bad advice. - Second - Period.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 01:51:54 pm by Thaddy »
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rvk

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2022, 01:57:20 pm »
If you want multi-user, use one of the big guns, so anyone can restore your data when your own software is obsoleted or worse: lost!
FireBird is bad advice. - Second - Period.
And if you become lost or obsolete as coder, it was a really bad choice to choose FPC because that's also not mean stream. So why would anyone choose FPC as programming choice?

Good for hobby but absolutely not in a corporate environment. Period  ;D
Same argument.

dsiders

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2022, 04:52:35 pm »
So, now that the thread has been hijacked...

Does the OP understand that they need an updated  version of the client library?
Preview Lazarus 2.3.0 documentation at: https://dsiders.gitlab.io/lazdocsnext

Thaddy

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2022, 05:03:53 pm »
If you want multi-user, use one of the big guns, so anyone can restore your data when your own software is obsoleted or worse: lost!
FireBird is bad advice. - Second - Period.
And if you become lost or obsolete as coder, it was a really bad choice to choose FPC because that's also not mean stream. So why would anyone choose FPC as programming choice?

Good for hobby but absolutely not in a corporate environment. Period  ;D
Same argument.
As I already wrote: the choice is about the database format and future maintainabilty, NOT about the compiler you use. In that case Firebird scores really bad on any decent manager's list. It is not a format for which programmers are easily available, so it introduces a risk, a point of future failure. I have seen lots of that in my 40 year career, both as a programmer as ICT manager. BAD CHOICE.
NOT bashing. FireBird is rather good, but future data protection requires a future proof and well known data format.
And the latter is the cause that I strongly discourage Firebird in commercial environments. It should be a  architect choice or ultimately a management choice and not left to programmers that support or defend it like it is a fetish. Putting your customer at avoidable risk is not a nice thing to do.
So the argument you make is the other way around and I am sure most professional programmers agree: Firebird is very good for hobby programmers, but not in a commercial setting.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 05:18:47 pm by Thaddy »
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korba812

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2022, 05:35:01 pm »
Interestingly, Firebird has a longer history than most of databases you suggest. And since it has some popularity (obviously it's not in the top 10) and it's a project developed by foundation and community, I don't think the project will die any time soon.

But any tool should be selected according to the needs - do not use a sledgehammer to crack nuts.

Thaddy

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Re: A problem with Firebird Embedded 2.5
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2022, 05:58:00 pm »
That is fake news: firebird dates from 2000, postgress from 1996, mysql from 1995 and sqlite is also from 2000.
Oracle even dates from 1979, well before interbase that dates from 1986, if we count firebird as a fork from interbase, which it isn't anymore due to a full rewrite.
Only Mariadb is newer, but that is also a fork just like firebird used to be.
For all of these counts that they are open source with liberate licenses except for oracle and to some extend mysql, which is owned by oracle.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 06:06:31 pm by Thaddy »
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