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Mobile development - Android & iOS

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Blade:

--- Quote from: Warfley on December 04, 2021, 04:37:47 am ---
--- Quote from: nick1965 on December 03, 2021, 10:31:23 pm ---well actually i have install 10 testing apps on my android device.
the complains is all abou ie. try to install indy components...
try to open demo lamw projects and belive me NOTHING works...

--- End quote ---
It is not part of the Lazarus or FreePascal project and the developers have no responsibility over it and no obligation to make it work.

--- End quote ---

Oddly, nick1965's complaint about trying to use Lazarus for Android has a small bit of legitimacy.  Don't get me wrong, in no way am I excusing being rude or a user not taking the time to read help documentation (including wiki).  The angle that I'm talking about has to deal with expectations, and arguably the Lazarus team should be aware of such.  Ignoring that people would want to develop mobile applications for Android and iOS is strange.  Delphi has positioned itself where it's not just for the desktop, but also for mobile.  People who would be looking at Lazarus as a potential alternative, would obviously be considering this when making comparisons and decisions. 

Probably the most glaring weakness or oversight of Lazarus is exactly that, creating mobile apps.  That Lazarus is seen as not capable in that area, is arguably worrisome and problematic.  And other programming languages/open source IDEs, have been making themselves viable ways to create mobile applications.  LAMW/Laz4Android is a fantastic effort, but them not being more thoroughly integrated into Lazarus, does appear to create a bit of awkwardness that would most obviously become a problem for newbies and beginners.  And LAMW/Laz4Android is only a partial solution, as there isn't any equally viable Laz4iOS project.  When people claim that Lazarus is an alternative, then the weakness in mobile development, can possibly lead to disappointment for some people coming from the Delphi world.

MarkMLl:

--- Quote from: Blade on December 04, 2021, 09:18:42 pm ---in no way am I excusing being rude or a user not taking the time to read help documentation (including wiki).

--- End quote ---

I think it appropriate to spell out here that while the wiki is useful it is basically "user experiences", and is neither official nor consistently maintained.

The core developers and documenters can only do so much and as such the wiki is enormously useful, BUT if there is a hint of disagreement between the wiki and formal documentation it's the wiki which has to be treated as unreliable... and that sort of thing can normally be resolved promptly by raising the point in one of the forum areas.


--- Quote --- The angle that I'm talking about has to deal with expectations, and arguably the Lazarus team should be aware of such.  Ignoring that people would want to develop mobile applications for Android and iOS is strange.  Delphi has positioned itself where it's not just for the desktop, but also for mobile.  People who would be looking at Lazarus as a potential alternative, would obviously be considering this when making comparisons and decisions.

--- End quote ---

I'm inclined to agree.


--- Quote ---Probably the most glaring weakness or oversight of Lazarus is exactly that, creating mobile apps.

--- End quote ---

Detail here for people whose first language is not English. The traditional meaning of "oversight" is "omission, something overlooked". A more recent usage is equivalent to "supervision". It's a word I try to avoid in technical writing because of that ambiguity.

MarkMLl

Martin_fr:

--- Quote from: Blade on December 04, 2021, 09:18:42 pm ---Oddly, nick1965's complaint about trying to use Lazarus for Android has a small bit of legitimacy.  Don't get me wrong, in no way am I excusing being rude or a user not taking the time to read help documentation (including wiki).  The angle that I'm talking about has to deal with expectations, and arguably the Lazarus team should be aware of such. Ignoring that people would want to develop mobile applications for Android and iOS is strange.

--- End quote ---
First of all, the response anyone gets/got on this forum are responses from the community.

And it is not about ignoring, it is about available volunteers in the team and in the community. People (community and team) volunteer to help with whatever they like to help with. Most will help outside their chosen area, if they know something on the topic. But few will go, pick up something they do know nothing about, and do the full research for someone else.

So, the amount of people who have experience with Lazarus + Android, appears to be relatively small (compared to the size of the community). And if that is the case, answers will take longer. Some people may only read up on the forum once a week. Some may miss the topic at first. Some may think they have the answer, and then it turns out to be wrong and make it worse. Such are the dynamics of a community and/or volunteer driven project.

Take me for an example. I had not seen his questions, but had I seen them, yes I would have ignored them. I have no clue. Never used Laz+Android myself. Don't even know who does, so I couldn't even alert a knowledgeable person to look at it. Not because I don't wont to, but because I got to much else to do.


--- Quote ---Probably the most glaring weakness or oversight of Lazarus is exactly that, creating mobile apps.  That Lazarus is seen as not capable in that area, is arguably worrisome and problematic. 

--- End quote ---
Maybe, but that will only change if people volunteer. Answer questions, document, supply patches....

Obviously there are already existing people, who supplied what is already there. Not sure if they are all still active and the Android stuff, or if they all read the forum. Maybe some of them are on the mail list. Maybe some are temporarily or permanently busy with other things. Again, all volunteers. Each decide for themself, when and how much.


--- Quote ---And other programming languages/open source IDEs, have been making themselves viable ways to create mobile applications.  LAMW/Laz4Android is a fantastic effort, but them not being more thoroughly integrated into Lazarus, does appear to create a bit of awkwardness that would most obviously become a problem for newbies and beginners.  And LAMW/Laz4Android is only a partial solution, as there isn't any equally viable Laz4iOS project.  When people claim that Lazarus is an alternative, then the weakness in mobile development, can possibly lead to disappointment for some people coming from the Delphi world.

--- End quote ---
All that may be true. But it is also chicken and egg...

Without advertising what is there, no one will come, and no new volunteers. And without volunteers, it will not progress or maybe just ever so slowly.

But yes, if some wikipage promises to much, then it should be thought to be corrected.
Find out if the author of that page is still active. Leave a note on the wiki's talk page, ask here on the forum, and also ask on the maillist(s). If they are still there, speak to them.


Blade:
@MarkMLl

Good response.  I agree with most of what you wrote.

Note- probably I should add, for those that might not know or to prevent any confusion, the Free Pascal compiler can of course be used on a wide range of CPUs and OSes (and a greater range than what Delphi can do).  Where with the Lazarus IDE and creating mobile applications, usually it's about the LCL, components, building GUI apps, or the convenience of the process for doing such.

Martin_fr:
Sorry going briefly offtopic.


--- Quote from: MarkMLl on December 04, 2021, 10:09:30 pm ---
--- Quote ---Probably the most glaring weakness or oversight of Lazarus is exactly that, creating mobile apps.
--- End quote ---
Detail here for people whose first language is not English. The traditional meaning of "oversight" is "omission, something overlooked". A more recent usage is equivalent to "supervision". It's a word I try to avoid in technical writing because of that ambiguity.

--- End quote ---

Not following...

Yes, I get "oversight" can be a noun derived from "overseeing" (supervise, look after). But I can't make any sense of that usage in the above sentence.

If it was "glaring weakness of oversight", then yes. There is or may be a lack of supervision.
But it is "glaring weakness or oversight", so "creating mobile apps" is a weak point, or something that got overlooked/missed (an "oversight").

I am seeking here for some oversight (supervision) in my efforts to find an oversight (omission to glean from the provided info). Could you help?

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