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lainz

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Wiki Article
« on: October 25, 2021, 11:59:33 pm »
This article
https://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus-_Game_Developers_Edition

Promises a Game Developer Edition for Lazarus since I have memory on using this wiki, and nothing have been done.

Is worth to remove it?

trev

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2021, 01:24:50 am »
I think it's useful should someone again desire to setup a similar quest.
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lainz

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2021, 01:46:42 am »
I think it's useful should someone again desire to setup a similar quest.

I don't think so, but I respect your opinion.

I think it confuses, when I was a newby I was looking for a download of that version of Lazarus, maybe the same happens to others...

trev

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2021, 04:24:54 am »
I changed the note at the start of the page from:

Quote
This page is a working document for creating a Lazarus installer specially targetted at Game Developers.

Quote
This page was a working document in 2007 for creating a Lazarus installer specially targeted at Game Developers. As at October 2021, no such Games edition exists. This may however serve as a useful starting point should someone(s) undertake such a quest in the future.

It was already categorised as a proposal which I left intact.

That should clear up any possible misunderstanding in the future.
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marcov

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2021, 11:31:33 am »
IMHO remove. Will has been gone of the radar for years, and the technologies are terribly generic and old.

I don't really see what this page would contribute to a game centered Lazarus edition

I'd hope for a new effort to have a bit more focus

dbannon

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 11:46:10 am »
I agree with marcov, its not a good look to have unfinished, barely started, projects hanging around for a long time on the wiki.  Its not the image we want to cultivate.

Davo
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AlexTP

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 01:47:34 pm »
Better remove it, agreed.

Kays

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 06:14:52 pm »
Better remove it, agreed.
I think I agree with trev here:

I think it's useful should someone again desire to setup a similar quest.
I agree that you don’t wanna trash someone else’s work unless there are good reasons for abandoning their ideas altogether.

I agree with marcov, its not a good look to have unfinished, barely started, projects hanging around for a long time on the wiki.  Its not the image we want to cultivate.
The wiki’s been having a rather conservative deletion policy so far, confer its deletion log and the pages for deletion maintenance category. Should we diverge from this MO, it’s best to codify first what to keep/delete (other than obvious violations/spam/etc.), because I argue there are several, if not many ancient pages hardly worth keeping, yet some people may disagree. I would, for instance, delete 2.4.0 Release preparation because this page has no use for me. Yet what’s useless for one person, might be useful for the other person.
Yours Sincerely
Kai Burghardt

marcov

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2021, 08:28:09 pm »
for a long time on the wiki.  Its not the image we want to cultivate.
The wiki’s been having a rather conservative deletion policy so far, confer its deletion log and the pages for deletion maintenance category. Should we diverge from this MO, it’s best to codify first what to keep/delete (other than obvious violations/spam/etc.), because I argue there are several, if not many ancient pages hardly worth keeping, yet some people may disagree.
[/quote]

I agree that we should be consequent.. Delete those other low quality articles too

Quote
I would, for instance, delete 2.4.0 Release preparation because this page has no use for me. Yet what’s useless for one person, might be useful for the other person.

In general, I would keep old release engineering pages. That one however is just old notes and IMHO can be deleted

Zath

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2021, 11:47:16 pm »
The note says it all quite adequately.

I don't see the point in deleting it because a few members feel it might project the wrong image.
Who's to say someone else doesn't come along, read about the idea and become inspired into creating it ?


VTwin

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2021, 12:57:13 am »
I guess I agree with marcov, it is a page from 2007 with no useful information. trev's note allows us to ignore it, but it seems more like a dead link than a wiki stub.

I suppose a consistent policy should be adopted before deleting it though.
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Kays

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2022, 01:00:32 am »
I agree that we should be consequent.. Delete those other low quality articles too
I suppose a consistent policy should be adopted before deleting it though.

I have created https://wiki.freepascal.org/Free_Pascal_wiki:Deletion_policy I would appreciate if we can paraphrase “other low quality articles” in general terms and describe other scenarios of pages hardly worth keeping. Later, unless there is already a consensus, we can hold a vote (forum topics support polls), but let’s first write the policy.
Yours Sincerely
Kai Burghardt

dbannon

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2022, 01:23:29 am »
Very good move.

I think bad content is often worse than no content. Overall, I like what you say but maybe under the Contestable section, more information about the proscribed process ?  I believe almost all "to be deleted" pages will be contestable in one way of another so that model maybe needs more emphasis ?

An example might be the distribution dependent "installing Linux" pages, in practices we most of these pages are quite unnecessary, contain content that is not being maintained and detract and distract from the general page covering all distribution. But there is content in there that was once relevant, often they talk about a particular, obsolete, version of a distribution. Its not a good look, someone browses there and says "wow, they have not updated the Fedora page https://wiki.freepascal.org/Install_on_Fedora for years, this project is moribund".

Davo

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trev

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2022, 08:35:44 am »
Only Admins can delete Wiki content. There are nine. Three have not been active since 2016, 2017 and 2018. Apart from me, the rest appear to be developers of FPC+/Lazarus with contributions mainly confined to current development (releases, code merges, new features, breaking changes etc).

I was a lawyer (now retired) for which I hold multiple undergraduate and postgraduate law degrees. I have no programming qualifications. My programming experience in chronological order:

* CBM BASIC, 6502 machine code for a BBS (VIC-20)
* C for FidoNet BBS and utilities (PCs)
* DCL for a primitive editorial publishing system (VAX super-minicomputers)
* Bourne shell scripts and C  for an SGML editorial publishing system (Solaris.- Sparc)
* Delphi 1-7 for tax calculators (for CDs) and ISAPI DLLs (for Windows servers)
* Delphi 1-7 for ADSL router utilities, one ported to Lazarus + FPC in 2007 (PCs)
* XUL-extensions (I was a developer and reviewer for addons.mozilla.org)
* Bourne shell scripts and C for massively automated text transformations (Solaris.- Sparc + Intel)
* Since June 2019, Lazarus + Free Pascal mainly on macOS, and to a small extent FreeBSD

Anyway, the brief autobiography is to highlight that I am not a qualified judge of the existing Wiki material. I've written most of the Wiki macOS material and some FreeBSD material, but I'm not technically qualified to rate the quality of the other Wiki material for the purpose of deleting it.

Which brings me to the point, finally: Who's going to carry out the Wiki policy?
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Thaddy

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Re: Wiki Article
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2022, 08:41:58 am »
What I am missing is that a wiki page can be marked as Warning: content no longer valid but kept for historical reasons istead of deleted.
Meaning the entry still has some value e.g. algorithmic but the entry is not valid for the current compiler or lazarus version.

That can also apply to examples: suppose crypto example using ssl2,3 or tls1. Or MD5, that kind of entries.

And or a mark: This ientry has issues and needs adaptation, in case deletion would be too cruel
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 08:45:35 am by Thaddy »
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