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Author Topic: Cовершенно вне контекста.  (Read 16872 times)

Fred vS

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Cовершенно вне контекста.
« on: July 31, 2021, 03:39:32 pm »
Привет.

Совершенно вне контекста.
Я заметил, что Google Translate работает намного лучше для перевода с русского на французский.
В большинстве случаев перевод с английского на французский дает непонятные результаты.
(Я не знаю, правильно ли работает перевод с французского на русский, который я использую для этого поста.)

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:19:13 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
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https://github.com/fredvs
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Alextp

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2021, 04:19:52 pm »
Yes, FR->RU works pretty good here.

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2021, 04:36:05 pm »
Code: Pascal  [Select][+][-]
  1. Yes, FR->RU works pretty good here.

Good to know.

For example, in MSEgui project there are very few documentation in English and German.
Translate it into French using Google Translate needs lot of work after, lot of things are incomprehensible.

But there are lot of demos and documentation in Russian and the translation from Russian into French needs very few corrections.

By the way, what is the result translating from English to Russian?
Is it as good as French to Russian ?

I was thinking that Google Translate uses the English language as reference (Lang to translate --> English --> Lang translated) but obviously, they use a other algorithm.

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:19:48 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Alextp

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2021, 04:51:31 pm »
And now I tried. En->Ru works pretty good!
I tested it on your long comment.

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2021, 04:58:23 pm »
And now I tried. En->Ru works pretty good!
I tested it on your long comment.

Ha ok.

I ask this to know if it is better to use a English text and use Google Translate En -> Ru or use instead the French translated text (with corrections) and Google Translate Fr -> Ru to have better result.

In any case, there is still lot of work for Google Translate to translate correctly from English, German, Dutch -> French.

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:20:08 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Alextp

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2021, 05:04:40 pm »
I think better the simpler: ie En->Ru, and do the Fr->Ru if it's needed for some text.

Gustavo 'Gus' Carreno

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2021, 05:11:29 pm »
Hey Fre;D,

Are you sure that Google Translate uses English as an intermediary route to the final translation?

Cuz that would be absolutely nonsensical due to the fact that English has no root affinity WHATSOEVER with any language.
Yeah, it borrows, begs and steals from a lot of them, but shares no real roots (historic, morphologic and whatnot) with many of the european languages, at least the middle(Latin) and east ones(Norse and Rusky).

And I can be really wrong but Latin and Russian are not that far apart in terms of language roots. But then again, I may be very wrong on that :)

Cheers,
Gus
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Alextp

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021, 05:14:55 pm »
I also think that so simple+plain language cannot be used as a buffer language, we will lose many things.

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2021, 05:21:48 pm »
I think better the simpler: ie En->Ru, and do the Fr->Ru if it's needed for some text.

For me it is the same because I will always begin from English-German -> French then make corrections.
But I am happy to know that En -> Ru -> En -> Ru understand each other.

So maybe I will have better result for French to do En-De -> Ru, then Ru -> French.

Ok, I will try.

Thanks Alex.

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:20:27 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Alextp

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021, 05:28:14 pm »
So Ru is a good 'buffer language' - seems you want to say this.

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2021, 05:31:15 pm »
Hey Fre;D,
Are you sure that Google Translate uses English as an intermediary route to the final translation?

Absolutely no, It was the first touch, (comparing with i18n).

Cuz that would be absolutely nonsensical ...

Hum,  :)  but  :-X .

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:20:44 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2021, 05:32:58 pm »
So Ru is a good 'buffer language' - seems you want to say this.

For French it is a serious challenger (comparing with the champion En).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:21:00 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

Seenkao

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2021, 11:28:46 pm »
Перевод с русского на английский и обратно работает неплохо. Я постоянно этим пользуюсь в настоящее время. Но! Для более точного перевода, мне приходится переводить несколько раз. Сначала на английский, потом на русский, чтобы проверить, более точно, хорошо ли был сформирован перевод и пойму ли я сам то, что было переведено.

Думаю, для лучшего перевода, лучше пользоваться услугами хорошего человека-переводчика.  :)

Google translate:
Translation from Russian to English and vice versa works well. I use it all the time nowadays. But! For a more accurate translation, I have to translate several times. First into English, then into Russian, in order to check, more precisely, whether the translation was well formed and whether I myself understand what was translated.

I think for a better translation it is better to use the services of a good human translator. :)

winni

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Re: овершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2021, 11:50:53 pm »
Hey Fre;D,

Are you sure that Google Translate uses English as an intermediary route to the final translation?

Cuz that would be absolutely nonsensical due to the fact that English has no root affinity WHATSOEVER with any language.
Yeah, it borrows, begs and steals from a lot of them, but shares no real roots (historic, morphologic and whatnot) with many of the european languages, at least the middle(Latin) and east ones(Norse and Rusky).

And I can be really wrong but Latin and Russian are not that far apart in terms of language roots. But then again, I may be very wrong on that :)

Cheers,
Gus


Hi!

Near topic, real life:

That's what is happening in the European Parlament: English (or French or German) as Intermediate Language for simultaneous interpretation.

Background: They are searching eager for example for interpreters between Danish and Portugese.  They don't find.
One of the reasons: simultaneous interpreters are ruined at the age of 50.

Perhaps now is understood what kind of tutti-frutti-info is translated to the minor langages.

Winni

 

Fred vS

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Re: Cовершенно вне контекста.
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 12:54:54 am »
That's what is happening in the European Parlament: English (or French or German) as Intermediate Language for simultaneous interpretation.

Hum, I still dont understand why in the European Parliament, English is still the king.
Afaik, no one country in EU speaks English.

They all are talking about independence vs US but still use their language as main language (that is not used by any members of EU).

 %)

Fre;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 04:21:22 pm by Fred vS »
I use Lazarus 2.2.0 32/64 and FPC 3.2.2 32/64 on Debian 11 64 bit, Windows 10, Windows 7 32/64, Windows XP 32,  FreeBSD 64.
Widgetset: fpGUI, MSEgui, Win32, GTK2, Qt.

https://github.com/fredvs
https://gitlab.com/fredvs

 

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