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Author Topic: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed  (Read 19344 times)

Joanna

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Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« on: June 25, 2021, 01:05:34 am »
After all the mismanagement of the new owner of freenode it has become obvious that libera is the better choice of irc network for the free pascal community however there is a big problem with this..

The two most active and helpful people in the fpc channel have not moved to libera. They continue to linger in the now ownerless pascal channels on freenode.

The pascal channels on libera are very inactive and the only person who talks there lately is a person who doesn’t really use fpc much. Yet this website is directing people to the dead channel on libera rather than the freenode channels where the helpful people sometimes are.

This means that new people who need help with pascal related questions will not cross paths with the people in irc who can actually  help them and will likely be discouraged as they try to talk to the mute Irc members on libera.

Isn’t there anyone knowledgeable in pascal that is willing to come to libera regularly and be active at all? It’s our official channel and it’s completely dead and unresponsive!

At this point we would be better off pointing new people to the ownerless freenode channels

440bx

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2021, 01:09:36 am »
At this point we would be better off pointing new people to the ownerless freenode channels
Why not point them to this forum instead ?... people here are knowledgeable and helpful.
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Joanna

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 04:41:36 am »
I sometimes tell people to come to forum but some things are easier to do in irc. If there are knowledge people in the channel willing to talk.

A dead irc channel doesn’t make the pascal community look Very  good when the other foss project channels for other languages are more active.

440bx

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2021, 05:53:05 am »
I sometimes tell people to come to forum but some things are easier to do in irc.
Can you give an example of something easier ?... I believe it is easier in a forum like this one where people have time to think about the problem and even post some helpful sample code.

A dead irc channel doesn’t make the pascal community look Very  good when the other foss project channels for other languages are more active.
What makes any programming community look good is the quality of the code they produce.  I didn't even know there was an IRC channel for Pascal until you mentioned it and, cannot think of a reason why I'd want to participate in it.
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Joanna

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 09:18:27 am »
Irc is good for when you are trying to configure the Lazarus client for mac and need someone to walk you through it or if you are asking a question but not sure of all the correct formal terminology on what you are trying to do or if you just want to enjoy a pleasant conversation with other pascal programmers without someone deciding to shut it down because it strayed “offtopic“.

Oftentimes  it’s possible to learn unexpected things about pascal in irc that would have never happened in a more structured environment where one is focused just upon their current problem.

 I’ve learned almost everything I know about Lazarus from the people in irc and my own practicing. There is nothing shameful about wanting to talk to other pascal programmers in real time in a world where nobody I know uses pascal and I’m often told  that pascal is an obsolete  “unmarketable” language whenever I talk to non pascal programmers.

 Irc isn’t for everyone obviously but that doesn’t make it worthless. Why does free pascal not deserve to have a thriving irc channel just like other foss projects? When I first came to freenode years ago both the #fpc and #lazarus-ide channels were fairly active. What happened?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 10:19:35 am by Joanna »

Handoko

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 02:48:53 pm »
Why does free pascal not deserve to have a thriving irc channel just like other foss projects?

Twenty years ago, a lot of my friends spent hours chat in IRC. But nowadays none of the people around me uses IRC. Pascal is still alive but compare to the others, the user base is significantly smaller. That explains why Pascal IRC channel doesn't have much users.

Irc isn’t for everyone obviously but that doesn’t make it worthless.

Surely some will find IRC useful. Unfortunately not much users are interested in using IRC. I tried, but not interested. Unorganized, not allow editing to fix typos, no mail notification when someone replies to your post, unable to post and show code, not moderated and a lot of trolls. Maybe you haven't known, when you're offline, they said something not nice about you. Not the kind of insult but something like, make fun of you. I saw they like to badmouth someone behind their back. So I quit.

Just as you said, IRC isn't for everyone. Have you tried to contact the users who were active on the previous network? Maybe you can persuade them to active in the new network.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 04:53:57 pm by Handoko »

Mongkey

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2021, 04:31:14 pm »
 You should try using telegram, many pascal users use that platform.

Joanna

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 11:46:09 pm »
Handoko I agree some of the people who use irc are unpleasant but the channels could be better if there were more decent people in them who were active. It may not be as organized but it’s definitely possible to share code through pasting on a website and sharing link.

The fact that irc channel is dying because less and less people are using pascal is even more depressing. I just finished a perfectly good app in pascal I don’t understand why people don’t want to use it.

I still have to go to freenode if I want to talk about pascal and hope for one of the two people who Are active will be there. Those two people Still don’t know everything there is to know About pascal. We need more people with different specialization to cover all aspects of pascal. 

Yes I’ve definitely tried to get them to come to libera many times and they get offended and rant at me about left wing politics or not wanting to be sheep. It should be obvious by now to anyone with common sense that freenode is not a good place anymore.

Mongkey does telegram require a phone number ? If it does I can’t use it.


engkin

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2021, 12:02:27 am »
it’s definitely possible to share code through pasting on a website and sharing link.

!!

It gives you the freedom of choosing your preferred website for sharing your great code.  ;)

Joanna, how come you are not active here?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 12:04:11 am by engkin »

Martin_fr

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2021, 12:16:26 am »
Well first of all I am not active on IRC, so I don't deal with request relating to it.

As for your original plead, I do not know who the admins of the IRC are, nor if they have noticed this thread. (I would assume they would have answered if they had).
I believe the IRC admins are some of the team members, so if you can get them to notice this and to respond, then they can decide what (if anything) should be done. If they don't have board admin privileges themself, they would certainly know how to get hold of one of the admins.


That said, since the question on how IRC functions seems in the room....

I can subscribe to the idea that certain things are easier to solve in a chat, that in a forum.
But, if I were to enter IRC now, and I were to pose some question I had (that requires some expertise of the person who answers), what are the odds, that a person who can answer is at that moment in the room? And not only in the room, but actively reading?
Because, unless that is the case, there still is no chat. That person may come an hour or two later, but if by that time, I had to leave my PC, then again there is not chat.
So unless 2 parties agree  on a premeditated time, then how does it work? Hope for good luck? Sorry maybe asking the wrong question, but I got curious....

Joanna

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2021, 12:20:37 am »
Hi Enkin
I prefer the Debian pastezone site for sharing code because it has no advertisements.

The reason I don’t ask questions in form probably has to do with my style of asking questions in a kind of vague way to try to get a grasp on how to go about doing things. Or my way of saying I remember doing such and such before but can’t remember the name of what I was using to do that.
Sometimes I just start talking about what I’m doing and the people give constructive criticism and suggest better ways to do it which is helpful. Sometimes I’m just in search of an interesting chat about technologies tangential to pascal programming. These sorts of behaviors probably wouldn’t work too well on a forum.

Another frustrating thing is I have this new app and I hardly know anyone to help test it with me. I don’t want to just be handing it out to strangers. I’m only interested in the opinions of other pascal programmers who can give technical insights into how to improve it.

Joanna

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2021, 12:32:41 am »
Hi Martin_fr
Irc definitely has some time constraints when it comes to people having to be online at the same time. Ideally a person with the answers would be online at the same time as you are and respond to your question.

It’s also possible for two people who are always online using bouncers to communicate asynchronously but such communication in the active public channel could be buried in other chat.

 Ideally people who want to talk have some overlap in their time zones when they can meet and talk. I always like to make sure someone is there before asking a complicated question which requires a lot of effort.

The only way to really solve these problems is to have a lot of people on at different times of day who are interested in talking about the topic which is how irc should be.

lucamar

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2021, 02:33:25 am »
Another frustrating thing is I have this new app and I hardly know anyone to help test it with me. I don’t want to just be handing it out to strangers. I’m only interested in the opinions of other pascal programmers who can give technical insights into how to improve it.

You do have here a forum choked full of Pascal programmers. :o

Granted, you prefer chat but for that, specifically, there is even a Third Party announcements board here. I can see no advantage on using chat for that and a lot to be gained from the forum; after all, people has to download your program, examine the source, test, etc. and prepare an adequate reponse, all of which implies taking quite some time and making it kind of ... hmmm... not really appropiate for the inmediacy of IRC.

Just MHO, of course :-\
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Mongkey

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2021, 05:10:45 am »
Handoko I agree some of the people who use irc are unpleasant but the channels could be better if there were more decent people in them who were active. It may not be as organized but it’s definitely possible to share code through pasting on a website and sharing link.

The fact that irc channel is dying because less and less people are using pascal is even more depressing. I just finished a perfectly good app in pascal I don’t understand why people don’t want to use it.

I still have to go to freenode if I want to talk about pascal and hope for one of the two people who Are active will be there. Those two people Still don’t know everything there is to know About pascal. We need more people with different specialization to cover all aspects of pascal. 

Yes I’ve definitely tried to get them to come to libera many times and they get offended and rant at me about left wing politics or not wanting to be sheep. It should be obvious by now to anyone with common sense that freenode is not a good place anymore.

Mongkey does telegram require a phone number ? If it does I can’t use it.

You can hide your cell phone number if you want  :), no one in a group can see your number  8-). Or you can buy another number for fun, just keep the main number.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 05:12:42 am by Mongkey »

kupferstecher

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Re: Pascal community on IRC has been all but destroyed
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2021, 11:16:29 am »
I can see no advantage on using chat for that and a lot to be gained from the forum
The main disadvantage that I see specifically for discussions about unready applications is that the forum posts will be found on the internet. So when it is later published and people search for the name there is a big chance to stumble over such posts.

 

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