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Author Topic: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular  (Read 3504 times)

Fantablup

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Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« on: May 11, 2021, 04:06:01 pm »
I just don't understand why it exists no jobs here in Sweden for Lazarus. Some is for Delphi.
And no one is using Firebird here in Sweden.
It just blow my mind. It truly does.

Firebird is the most stable DB engine i ever have worked with.
Lazarus is so good for development. After leaving Delphi because of prices for billionairs, i switched to Lazarus.
The only big thing is the grids and DBgrids. These can not have multiple lines or expand rows in columns or extra components in it.
I have been wondering about creating a grid component that behave like a flex or grid used in CSS.

Some limitations here, but Lazarus just rocks big time on development speed.

And the TIOBE index is just something that is faulty. Mixing width Delphi/Pascal in the index destroys all info on Pascal. No one can see how it goes for Pascal. Neither for Delphi.
Is there some agreement with TIOBE for not showing pascal and Lazarus? I just wonder. It just feel like it is.
This also means that new developers don't look at Pascal or Lazarus because of no good index on it.

just love to develop in Lazarus. I have tried it several times before, but now i use it every time.

The Lazarus team has done a great job on it. It should be more popular in the near future.

Thaddy

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2021, 04:32:56 pm »
Lazarus should be more, but Firebird not.
Reason: in case of database back-ends stick to mainstream.
( and Firebird is certainly not the most stable...)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 04:35:01 pm by Thaddy »

Fantablup

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2021, 04:44:53 pm »
Thanks for reply.

Firebird is my personal experience when i sold an invoice program that was used by over thousand users, and did not crash or had any corrupt data in 12 years.

I totally agree that following the mainstream often is the thing. I use Firebird just because it is so stable, and so super-easy to also install on computers and small devices as embedded. Firebird is the only DB engine that can do that with 9 MB'ish install.
The only thing about FB, is that it is not on shared servers, so users can develop with it on their website.

I'm using other DB engines too, but i like FB the best.

MarkMLl

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2021, 05:53:37 pm »
I'd suggest that starting a database war would not be a good idea for a newcomer to this forum.

My experience with Firebird a few years ago was that it had several well-prepared manuals in .pdf form, covering different versions and use cases... and that one needed all of them to get anywhere at all, with little indication of which erratum or supplement contained what one was looking for.

It's definitely got its good points, but making itself accessible to somebody trying to work out whether it's any use for what he's doing isn't- or certainly wasn't- one of them.

As Thaddy says, my inclination is to stick to the mainstream: SQLite for local stuff, PostgreSQL for anything which might possibly need multiuser or remote access.

MarkMLl
Turbo Pascal v1 on CCP/M-86, multitasking with LAN and graphics in 128Kb.
Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

Fantablup

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2021, 06:14:21 pm »
Database war?

I just said i like FB, and it's the best and most stable DB engine i have worked with.
No need to punch me for that :)

I use SQLite, PostgreSQL, MySQL, MariaDB, and others too. But i like FB best of all.

As i already said i agree with doing mainstream. I do that myself when needed.
I use FB when i also need embedded.

Nothing wrong using any other DB engine, so don't start any war  :)

MarkMLl

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2021, 06:22:45 pm »
I would say that when I was comparing Firebird against PostgreSQL I was quite pleased by the commonality of their SQL syntax: the area where I've historically seen differences is date formats.

I always try to mention it as a contender if somebody's doing something which might benefit from asynchronous notifications, since of the accessible servers this facility is offered only by FB and Postgres. But the difficulty getting things set up means that in practice it's got little if any advantage over Postgres.

MarkMLl
Turbo Pascal v1 on CCP/M-86, multitasking with LAN and graphics in 128Kb.
Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

Fantablup

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2021, 06:28:19 pm »
Yes, PostgreSQL and FB is very similar, and it can be compared. Even the procedures and triggers is very similar.

I don't understand the FB problem on setting up as you said. It is set up in one minute with just a click on the install.
Also, it is often no need to maintain the databases or server either. Everything is so easy in FB.
Postgre is different in this way.

If i could choose FB over Postgre on web, i would without any hesitation. But FB is not on shared servers.

Also, every DB engine have their pro and cons and used in different scenarios.
The con of FB is that it is not on web as mainstream.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2021, 07:33:09 pm by Fantablup »

Fantablup

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2021, 06:38:43 pm »
I am actually converting a FB database that have over hundred procedures and over 30 triggers to PostgreSQL.
As mainstream on web, i selected Postgre since FB hasn't come so far on web.

I think Postgre is the most stable of the ones that also can be used on shared servers.

valdir.marcos

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2021, 02:58:31 am »
Lazarus should be more, but Firebird not.
Reason: in case of database back-ends stick to mainstream.
( and Firebird is certainly not the most stable...)

As Thaddy says, my inclination is to stick to the mainstream: SQLite for local stuff, PostgreSQL for anything which might possibly need multiuser or remote access.
Here we go again.

I believe that most of us here prefer to use Lazarus / Free Pascal for a number of reasons, but will any flavor of Pascal - including Delphi and Lazarus / Free Pascal - represent the mainstream in the world of IDEs or programming languages ​​as you are suggesting as a criterion for choosing a database?

If you really think so, I will wait for your consistency in stopping to indicate Lazarus and Free Pascal to the newcomers who arrive here and start indicating for them to use an IDE and a programming language that is mainstream because obviously Pascal is not. It was, but it hasn't been for decades.

As a data professional for over three decades, I can say that if you are unable to get good results with Firebird (or any other DBMS), stop bading-mouth what you obviously don't know and start hiring professionals who study and deliver performance and qualitiy.

I would say the same to people who bads-mouth Pascal just because they don't study it and don't know how to use it. This is as stupid as bading-mouth Firebird without studying it and not knowing how to use it through time and specially current.

Let those who study and use Firebird current and routinely speak good or bad things about it, just as we should give preference to hearing good or bad things about Pascal from those who study and work with that programming language.

valdir.marcos

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2021, 03:01:53 am »
I'd suggest that starting a database war would not be a good idea for a newcomer to this forum.
Database war?

I just said i like FB, and it's the best and most stable DB engine i have worked with.
No need to punch me for that :)

I use SQLite, PostgreSQL, MySQL, MariaDB, and others too. But i like FB best of all.

As i already said i agree with doing mainstream. I do that myself when needed.
I use FB when i also need embedded.

Nothing wrong using any other DB engine, so don't start any war  :)
I also don't think this is a flame war.

valdir.marcos

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2021, 03:02:43 am »
I'm using other DB engines too, but i like FB the best.
+1

valdir.marcos

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2021, 03:14:34 am »
Yes, PostgreSQL and FB is very similar, and it can be compared. Even the procedures and triggers is very similar.

I don't understand the FB problem on setting up as you said. It is set up in one minute with just a click on the install.
Also, it is often no need to maintain the databases or server either. Everything is so easy in FB.
Postgre is different in this way.

Also, every DB engine have their pro and cons and used in different scenarios.
The con of FB is that it is not on web as mainstream.
+ 1

Quote
If i could choose FB over Postgre on web, i would without any hesitation. But FB is not on shared servers.
Usually low cost host companies only offer MySQL or MariaDB.
If you pay a little more, you can get some more options.
Even on that scenario, there are only a few host companies that offer Firebird among standard options.

To have Firebird on web, you'd better use a VPS or build your own web infrastructure.

valdir.marcos

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2021, 03:33:38 am »
I am actually converting a FB database that have over hundred procedures and over 30 triggers to PostgreSQL.
As mainstream on web, i selected Postgre since FB hasn't come so far on web.

I think Postgre is the most stable of the ones that also can be used on shared servers.
If you want, I can privately refer you to some low to middle cost hosting companies that offer Firebird as one of their available options.

Handoko

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2021, 05:23:19 am »
I'm a noob in database programming. Some months ago, I tried Firebird on my Linux computer. I managed to install, create, connect, read and write some data to it.

@MarkMLl

I can understand the general advice, stick to mainstream then nothing would go wrong. But I'm more interest on what of the potential issue for getting thing set up. Can you please explain more?

MarkMLl

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Re: Lazaruz and Firebird should be more popular
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2021, 09:26:06 am »
I can understand the general advice, stick to mainstream then nothing would go wrong. But I'm more interest on what of the potential issue for getting thing set up. Can you please explain more?

When I looked at it- and I've tried to stress that that wasn't recent- I found that there was something like four PDF manuals which covered the basic version plus some addenda, and I found myself having to use all of them. However, this was for more than just "getting the software on the system" (OP has already commented that that is a "one button" operation, at least on Windows) but included defining users, creating tables, and then working out the API so that additional users etc. could be added under software control and separate system components could be advised of their arrival... it was that asynchronous notification that was really of interest, since it's something that I need for scheduling etc. in our core business.

As I've said, once running it wasn't bad, and there was substantial commonality with PostgreSQL's dialect of SQL. But my experience of getting the info together wasn't encouraging, and unless I had compelling reason I'd stay with PostgreSQL: FB's main selling point IMO is that like PostgreSQL it has asynchronous notifications, but it's not sufficiently "lite" that there's an automatic niche for it.

Which of course raises the interesting question of whether SQLite is sufficiently useful for multiple local programs, i.e. with robustness enforced by file locking or whatever is available, that its lack of asynchronous notifications could be an issue.

MarkMLl


Turbo Pascal v1 on CCP/M-86, multitasking with LAN and graphics in 128Kb.
Pet hate: people who boast about the size and sophistication of their computer.
GitHub repositories: https://github.com/MarkMLl?tab=repositories

 

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