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Author Topic: More componenets.  (Read 6380 times)

440bx

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2021, 08:17:38 pm »
Apparently, the spirit of negativism is great about this proposal.
You have to take into consideration that not everyone has a desire or use for "kitchen sink" installations.   

Personally, my ideal piece of software is something that is the absolute minimum and allows me to add to it whatever features/functions I need as the need for them arises.

The following isn't a complain about Lazarus but, for me, it already has several hundred times more than I need.  I use it only as a front end to FPC and GDB and, that is _all_ I want (at least at this time.)    The thought of having a big download just to get those basic features is rather unappealing.

Bottom line : different users have different needs. 

I like software that offers features/functions "a la carte". 

IOW, waitress, I'd like to have 2 eggs over easy, two strips of bacon, hash browns and a large cup of coffee, thank you and, hold off on the 20 pork chops, 7 prime ribs,  11 lobsters, 8 chicken cordon blue, 5 trout amandines and whatever else is on the menu today.

FPC v3.0.4 and Lazarus 1.8.2 on Windows 7 64bit.

seghele0

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2021, 10:15:43 am »
GetMem,
Quote
I'm not against it, just trying to understand the reason behind it.
It might be a good idea to contact CT asking why they're doing it.
They can give you a well-structured answer about the "big" IDE.
 ;)
My personal knowledge in programming is of a 'very' low level.
It only has a private purpose to keep my brain active.
 8)



Handoko

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2021, 10:56:50 am »
Some new users including me, may have problems installing third party components. Long ago, the first time I tried BGRABitmap, I really had to scratch my head. After many attempts and searching information on the forum, I finally could install it.

So, I can think of one reason: it can prevent baldness.  :D
See the photo beside this posts, I already lost many hairs.
 
But, after the inclusion of Online Package Manager. Installing a third party component is as easy as some mouse clicks. Unfortunately, not many newbies know the existence of OPM.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 11:09:17 am by Handoko »

GetMem

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2021, 12:10:27 pm »
@seghele0
Quote
It might be a good idea to contact CT asking why they're doing it.
They can give you a well-structured answer about the "big" IDE.
I'm interested more in your opinion. So why a super big IDE is a good idea?

@Handoko
Quote
Some new users including me, may have problems installing third party components. Long ago, the first time I tried BGRABitmap, I really had to scratch my head. After many attempts and searching information on the forum, I finally could install it.
That's a good one! Still the OPM approach seams a better solution to me. You can install individual packages in a reasonable amount of time.

wp

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2021, 02:05:59 pm »
Unfortunately, not many newbies know the existence of OPM.
We could add a note while the installer runs, like there is one for "Why are the binaries so big?". Of course, nobody reads this, but at least nobody can blame the team for not telling.
Mainly Lazarus trunk / fpc 3.2.0 / all 32-bit on Win-10, but many more...

Handoko

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2021, 02:29:09 pm »
Unfortunately, not many newbies know the existence of OPM.
We could add a note while the installer runs ...

+1
Yes, we should provide some FAQ and do some promos on the installation screen.

Also I think it is a good idea to mention OPM on the Lazarus main page, in 'highlights' section:
https://www.lazarus-ide.org/

We could also mention: Develop Android apps easily using LAMW.
Yes, it is definitely easier than using C++ and some others.

OPM not only shows a list of available components, it also displays a short description and the license information of the component. This is what I like most. All the components enabled on Lazarus default installation are license in LGPL with linking exception, that is good. But installing third party components without checking their license term is bad, unless the programmer does not distribute the program. But who wants to write program without distributing it?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 07:00:19 pm by Handoko »

Martin_fr

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2021, 06:36:28 pm »
It might be a good idea to contact CT asking why they're doing it.

Feel free to contact them, if they want to contribute to our work.
(But even then, it needs to be adapted so it could be used without imposing any extra work on the existing team. / The existing team does not have the time.)

From what I can tell - and a lot of people here seem to share that observation - they have made it quite clear, that not only do they not want to contribute back, but more so that they are willing to go to any length of effort to distance themself from us.
This is my personal impression. It could be totally wrong. => and if it correct, they have every right to do such things.




Unfortunately, not many newbies know the existence of OPM.
We could add a note while the installer runs ...

+1
Yes, we should provide some FAQ and do some promos on the installation screen.
Patches welcome.

Also, as I already posted: OPM could be more prominent in the component pallete/window.

Quote
Also I think it is a good idea to mention OPM on the Lazarus main page, in 'highlights' section:
https://www.lazarus-ide.org/
+1

Quote
All the components enabled on Lazarus default installation are license in LGPL with linking exception, that is good.
Sure about that?
Afaik SynEdit is Gpl/Mpl. Haven't checked all the rest.

Handoko

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2021, 06:58:02 pm »
Quote
All the components enabled on Lazarus default installation are license in LGPL with linking exception, that is good.
Sure about that?
Afaik SynEdit is Gpl/Mpl. Haven't checked all the rest.
I was wrong, I just read the FAQ again. I misinterpreted the words. Sorry.

ASBzone

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2021, 07:40:10 pm »
GetMem,
Quote
I'm not against it, just trying to understand the reason behind it.
It might be a good idea to contact CT asking why they're doing it.

But since you are suggesting it, you should have the reason for it.

If you don't have a reason for it, then why bring it up as a suggestion?

And if someone else is already doing exactly what you are willing to suggest (for no reason), then there is no problem -- the solution is already present.  Just use it.

IOW, if you are presenting something as a problem in need of being resolved -- especially when it is going to lead to other people doing a ton of work -- then you ought to be able to articulate why.
-ASB: https://www.BrainWaveCC.com/

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JuhaManninen

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2021, 08:02:43 pm »
@seghele0
I'm interested more in your opinion. So why a super big IDE is a good idea?
... and a related question: What problems you had with OPM? Why does it not work for you?
The only reason I can think of for people not wanting an online package system is a lack of internet connection.
Are you not connected to internet? You can post here somehow.
Even then you need a connection only once to install all packages from OPM. Then they stay installed in your IDE.
BTW, you need internet also to download any program installation unless you order a CD or USB stick or something.
Most computer owners nowadays have internet connection. I wonder what is your ultimate motive for not using OPM.
Mostly Lazarus trunk and FPC 3.2 on Manjaro Linux 64-bit.

alaa123456789

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2021, 08:18:05 pm »
it is good to have more components , but the problem there is shortage of information how to use them  ,
we thank all developers but need more work on help section of each component.

thanks

seghele0

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2021, 03:07:14 pm »
 :(
I didn't want any fierce debates.
This topic was just about a question without pressure.
I’ve all respect for the creators/developpers of Lazarus and for  the enormous time they put into this project with high qualities.
In the current context, I’ll stop to comment further.
The case is clear, Lazarus remains Lazarus and CT remains CT.
Thank you all for your opinion.
The end.

GetMem

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2021, 03:19:16 pm »
@seghele0

I don't want fierce debates either, I just wish to understand why the CT approach(big IDE) is better for some users then the Lazarus(OPM) approach. If you don't want to talk about it, no problem. :)

trev

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2021, 12:44:05 am »
To sum up:

Q: Why is an apple not like an orange?

Short A: Because an apple is not an orange.

Longer A: There are no geneticists sufficiently interested in genetically modifying an apple to be like an orange in their spare time because it is easy enough for people to decide which one they like to eat better and simply eat that one.

What did we learn? Don't get sucked in next time.
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ASBzone

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Re: More componenets.
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2021, 03:03:29 am »
What did we learn? Don't get sucked in next time.


Save the thread, lock it from comments, and link back to it when the next round of questions come in... :)
-ASB: https://www.BrainWaveCC.com/

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Other Systems: Windows 10 Pro x64, Version 2009 (Build 19042) or greater

 

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